Why shoot 1911s w/ thumb on safety?

[krept]

Have seen some references to shooting 1911s with a high thumbs grip but I was never told the actual rationale for doing this. I didn't learn to shoot 1911s like this when I was a kid and this non-technique has carried over to my current platforum (USP).

Why do some shoot 1911s like this? Is it because it's faster to shoot than transitioning to a 'normal,' full-handed grip after uncocking? Is there is a slim chance of the safety lever on older 1911s reengaging and this grip prevents it?

I'm wondering if I should attempt to relearn to shoot from condition 1 carry with a high thumbs grip. Seems a good reason NOT to do this on the USP platform is because I might decock inadvertently under recoil. Plus, the grip does not feel very secure on my USP .45f when I handle the firearm in this manner. No problems ever going from condition 1 to firing with 1911s or my USP... no problems with the safety reengaging either. Thus... why high thumbs on 1911s?

thanks for the info...

 

[SDC]

A lot of people accidentally knock the safety ON when they're shooting, unless they keep their thumb on top of the safety (at least, that's my personal experience). Sometimes, the simplest answers are the best ones.

 

[CWL]

Provides reference point in helping you maintain high-bore axis grip on 1911 pistols.

Also creates nice reference point for supporting hand thumb to tuck into.

 

[10-Ring]

I shoot this way because I can get the most efficient & controllable grip on the gun this way.

 

[Scott Evans]

Aid in properly indexing the weapon.

Speed to the first shot.

Prevents unintentional reengagement of the safety.

Aid in reducing muzzle flip.

 

[AK103K]

Are you talking of the "high thumb" or the thumb resting on top of the safety? The typical "high thumb" is an old alibi cheat used by target shooters to cause the gun to malfunction by pressing against the slide while shooting. Keeping your thumb on top avoids the safety being knocked up while shooting. I had a 1911 that had a shallow dimple in the safety that would do this, almost by itself. A little dremel work solved this. Jeff Cooper commented that he thought that the 1911's safety should be spring loaded so you had to hold it down. I dont use either grip, I keep my thumb down, and other than that one gun, have never had a problem.

 

[Gerald McDonald]

You might not wish to use a high thumb grip with a USP as mine would sometimes decock when I was shooting.
Gerald

 

[Bergeron]

When I grasp my USP with two hands, I find that placing my dominant thumb on top of the safety is best for me. This grasp allows me to put my non-dominant palm into the area below my thumb. By wrapping my fingers of the non-dominant hand around the dominant hand after this placement of the palm, I find I get complete pistol frame to hand contact. This grasp, combined with an aggressive Isocoles stance almost completely negates muzzle rise on both my USP9f and my dad's Para .40.

But hey, y'know, whatever you find works best for you.

BTW, there is an excellent link on the american shooter webpage for pistol shooting coached by Rob Leatham.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The first few times I shot a borrowed model 1911, I assumed the little dodad was a crudely adjustable thumb rest, then found it it does double duty as a safety device.

Seriously: bullseye shooters have preferred the thumb-up grip for decades. The Herrett's stocks on my High Standard Trophy go back quite a few years, and deliver comfort and accuracy equalled only by Fung's stocks.

Even when I shoot my model 1911 with two hands—it still feels peculiar to grip a gun that way—I keep my thumb up.

 

[AR-10]

I started using a strong-hand-thumb-on-safety grip while shooting my 1911s for two reasons.

1) I occasionally would forget to flip the safety off as I was bringing the pistol onto target.

2) I was afraid my training would carry through in any self defense situation.

 

[Humble Texan]

Andy Stanford author of Surgical Speed Shooting advocates a high thumb placement of the strong hand if no safety and to rest the thumb on the safety for those weapons that have such.

This puts the web of the strong hand as close as possible to the bore line and creates room for the support hand. Also insures that the safety is off and helps in stopping activation of the safety during recoil.

When I owned an HK USP, I would let my thumb ride on the safety. I never experienced a "decock" incident. Could happen but with the proper grip I don't see how. The USP is very mild in recoil and muzzle rise. If you are forced to fire one-handed it could be a problem although, again, when practicing one-handed I still didn't experience the "decock".

Pray for our President and our troops who go into harms way.

 

[Sean Smith]

Because you don't want to reliably de-activate the grip safety?

 

[El Tejon]

Sean, not for those of us with polar bear hands! (No wonder I like fish so much).

Standing, "double duty", lol.

krept, what Mr. Evans said.

 

[45auto]

Better control during firing. High grip- less bbl flip.
Allows you to have a manual safety gun without the problem of forgetting to "release" the safety. Best of both worlds IMHO.
Can't accidently flip the safety on when firing.
Did I say better control?

The downsides, as stated, deactivating the grip safety could be a problem for someone and your thumb could slow down the slide enough to cause a malfunction. Both "potential" problems can be adjusted if needed.

There are more upsides than downsides, IMO, so it's worth a good try to shoot that way if it's possible for you.

Good luck.

 

[M1911]

With the USP, if you are concerned about inadvertently decocking it, you can have an HK armorer convert the gun so that the lever only acts as a safety (Variant 9?), not as a decocker.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

As noted, it has all sorts of benefits for providing a better index and control of the gun while firing.

Of course, it works best with the extended safeties. Apparently, JMB never really intended people to ride the safety with their thumbs or he would have made 1911s with extended thumb safeties in the first place!

 

[krept]

Thanks for the responses folks. It is very uncomfortable for me to hold my USP .45 in this manner, perhaps because it is so wide, but also the hump of the frame underneath the hammer makes it very awkward. This would be surely be more manageable on a single stack 1911...

FWIW, engaging the safety lever accidentally has never been an issue for me when shooting both 1911s and non-1911 platforms. Good to know the rationale behind this hold.

Cheers