Why the majority of semi-auto manufacturers stops at 45 ACP-40 S&W???

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I think single stack 10mm lose a lot of thier appeal. The capacity is no longer much different from a revolver and I would just go with a 44 Magnum revolver which can be loaded up or down.

I don't agree. A Dan Wesson RZ-10 is a lot more pleasant to carry around all day in a IWB holster than a Smith 629 with a 4" barrel. And while I do spend some time in the mountains, I spend far more time in the city.

If you are talking about a pure mountain gun, then I start to agree. However, owning two Witness pistols I have been very happy with, I get the best of both worlds.

I feel saturno's pain, but would also point out that for the couple hundred more you can get a custom shop Witness with the old style slide. I am really sorry he had a bad experience, probably made all the worse because he really liked the platform and wanted it to work.
 
A Dan Wesson RZ-10 is a lot more pleasant to carry around all day in a IWB holster than a Smith 629 with a 4" barrel.

Yeah.

Fortunately, I'm not completely stoned, so I don't try to carry my 629 IWB all day.:D

We have wildlife in the city, but I think that squirrels and Canada geese would succumb to a .38 if they ever attacked.
 
The only other remaining high capacity 10 mm is the Glock 20 if you can stomach the plastic and the action....it is quite reliable and tough, very popular for wildlife carry....

There is also the Glock 29 which can use Glock 20 15 round magazines, they just stick out slightly. It is a much smaller frame and easier to carry around for hours for just in case. For hunting the 20 is preferred.

Then there is some double stack 45ACP firearms that can be custom converted to 10mm Auto even when not offered from the factory that way. Stick with those designed for .45 ACP +P ammunition. Which is currently the way to go if you don't like Glocks.

By converting a .45 ACP double stack you can get many more options for a 10mm Auto. That means you can get nice quality steel firearms in 10mm auto, that also have the capacity of a doublestack. That is currently the best way to get high quality double stack 10mm Autos.
You will need at least a new barrel and recoil spring, with a .40/10mm extractor also being preferred. Some models have magazines that will work great with the 10mm or can be ordered and some require a little work with a welder and some polishing.

The capacity of the semis can also be adjusted. From 10+1 - 15+1 with the glock standard magazines. To the 28 and 29 round magazines also for the glocks. To similar magazines in many other semi auto designs (modify a .45 ACP magazine for feeding if a stock one does not work.)
While revolvers are stuck at stock capacity.


One other thing:
The semi auto action does reduce perceived recoil. With the ideal recoil spring that is neither too light or heavy you have a much more mild shooter.
As soon as a revolver is fired the recoil impact goes through the frame and into the shooter. While in a semi-auto it is absorbed gradually over a longer length of time by the recoil spring operating the action.
So a .357 Magnum powered round is even easier to shoot faster and accurate.
 
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traditional designs cant handle the pressures of the high end handgun cartridges. second issue is that the bulk of the semi automatic pistol market is aimed to federal/state law enforcement and those agencies go with 9mm/45acp/40 sw. Makes no sense to make a handgun that 99%of your primary customer base wont purchase.
 
What about the EAA stuff? Those are 15+1. I have one and it shoots like a charm.

The witness compact is a prior favorite that has turned many off on the entire line. The compact EAA witness had a slide change. The newer slides have more metal removed and are known to crack on a good number of people, especially from full power 10mm loads. Loads well within SAAMI specs.
The compact Witness appears to be exactly what many are looking for in a compact package. So once they crack it is pretty disappointing.
The older slides with more steel did not seem to be known for the problem.

The problem is common enough with the newer compact model slides in the 10mm models.

Not sure if the full size models have any type of similar problem.
 
The witness compact is a prior favorite that has turned many off on the entire line. The compact EAA witness had a slide change. The newer slides have more metal removed and are known to crack on a good number of people, especially from full power 10mm loads. Loads well within SAAMI specs.
The compact Witness appears to be exactly what many are looking for in a compact package. So once they crack it is pretty disappointing.
The older slides with more steel did not seem to be known for the problem.

The problem is common enough with the newer compact model slides in the 10mm models.

Not sure if the full size models have any type of similar problem.

Exactly right

All the new Witness (full size and compact) have the rounded top slide and they crack using full house 10 mm loads....only the Match model (SA) and I think the Hunter model use the old squared style slide which I heard it does not have the cracking problem if properly sprung.

This is the reason why I do not consider the EAA Witness (at least the basic models full size and compact) "true" 10 mm handguns...they can handle only the FBI loads (equivalent to a hot 40 S&W)

EAA is adamant about this...absolutely no Corbon, Double Tap or Buffalo Bore....once the gunsmith told me that even the Winchester Silvertips are borderline...penalty (if they can prove it) is the suspension of the warranty.

On top of that the EAA Customer Service is non-existant...


Basically I gave up on EAA.....excellent pistols if they could fix the issues...
 
EAA and Tanfoglio have started to acknowledge problems with heat treatment since Saturno's terrible experience. I have read more recent reports of customers seeing less than 1 week turn around on fixes for cracked slides, with none of the nasty accusations about 'over-pressure' ammo.

I have had neither experience.

As I said above, the entire Elite line of witness guns retains the old slide profile. This includes the Match, Stock, Limited, Stock Limited and Stock 2, as well as the Hunter.

I don't want to sound like a pitchman for EAA, although I may. I do want to support the 10mm guns that EAA brings to market that do work. As we have mentioned, there is a dearth of hi-capacity 10mm options. Glock, STI, SVI and EAA are it. The STI and SVI are out of many peoples budget, as may be the high end Tanfoglio. But the Match and the Stock are excellent values, and the slide design the carry is well known to be solid.

If I had been through Saturno's experience, I may feel different. But, I don't want to see them dropped from an already slim market because they really screwed up in this instance. I am avoiding any of the scalloped slides from EAA. But, I am a strong advocate of their designs that do work, and hope the day will come that EAA has a strong CS reputation, or the Tanfoglio guns are picked up by a different importer.
 
There's also the fact that most people carry auto pistols for use against 2 legged predators. For that, the .45 or .40 are "enough". Especially when you consider quick follow up shots and the risks of over penetration.

Quick follow up is the same in a Glock 21 (.45) and Glock 20 (10mm) - at least in my experience. I have small hands but still shoot a Glock 20 easy enough, but the 1911 style 10mms fit better. I hand load for 10mm which reduces costs to acceptable levels and I can load middle of the road for target work, and full power for HD/SD. Not that it matters unless you are hunting with the 10mm. A mid-power load is just as effective for 2-legged threats as a full power load (potentially more accurate too depending on what the gun likes)

My wish is for a Springfield XD10!
 
I would definitely buy an XDm 10!
+1 I'd snatch one up ASAP if they ever did it.
Hmmm, I've always heard the .38 Super described that way.
The .38 Super doesn't come anywhere close to the .357 Mag. Heck, it can't even keep up with the .357 Sig, which also falls far short of the .357 Mag.
 
Few semi-auto users want more power?? Are they wimpy??

Please post your winning IDPA, IPSC, or Bullseye scores here... missing with a powerful round is no better than missing with a less powerful round.

The 10 mm Auto is a fantastic high power compact caliber, perfect for light wood protection...

I don't often get attacked by trees.

The revolver almost equivalent of that round, the 357 Mag, is everywhere....

Common loads of .40 S&W compare very well with common loads of .357 Magnum. Max loads of each, like from Buffalo Bore, also compare fairly well, though .357 Magnum has the edge. To get really amazing performance out of .357 Mag requires longer barrels that don't carry well. And .40 picks up a fair bit of speed in a 5" or 6" barrel also. Really heavy loads of .357 Magnum don't increase its effect on human targets, and are still lighter than recommended for brown bears. They are good for deer at short ranges, of course. Who needs more than 6 shots to hunt one deer?

Can someone solve the mistery for me??

The "mistery" of spell check?
 
Max loads of each, like from Buffalo Bore, also compare fairly well, though .357 Magnum has the edge.

I would consider 200 fps out of a 4" barrel more than an 'edge' Compare the 180 and 200 grain loads at doubletap for these calibers. The 357 Mag well above the 40S&W.
 
I would consider 200 fps out of a 4" barrel more than an 'edge' Compare the 180 and 200 grain loads at doubletap for these calibers. The 357 Mag well above the 40S&W.

Ditto.

Note also that many revolver shooters don't shoot factory ammo much.

I wouldn't subject a semiauto to what we routinely load for stout revolvers, nor would I trust most semis to feed the sharp-shouldered LSWC hardcast bullets that I carry on the trail, especially alternating with snake loads.

Like I said, my "serious" trail gun is a .44, not a .357, and these comparisons of a middling revolver round with the hottest stuff in common semiautos just really don't give a realistic picture.

The reason someone might want a .357 is its ammo versatility for different uses, not because it's "better" than a 10mm when both are loaded hot. How many .357s get a diet of 100% full-power ammo?

When you compare a .357 to a 10mm, you're comparing the quintessential all-around revolver with a high-powered, specialized semi. Apples and oranges.:)
 
Max loads of each, like from Buffalo Bore, also compare fairly well
If The 10mm barely manages to tie the .357 in its top loadings the .40 S&W doesn't stand a chance.
I don't often get attacked by trees.
Do you really not know what "light woods protection" means, or are you just being an immature smart aleck?

I would consider 200 fps out of a 4" barrel more than an 'edge'
Out of a 4" barrel the .357 is 340 fps faster than the .40 is out of a 4.9" barrel, both with 180gr bullets. That's a 30% difference.

The "mistery" of spell check?
Just can't keep it on topic, can you?
 
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Do you really not know what "light woods protection" means, or are you just being an immature smart aleck?

Where I am, in one of the most forested states east of the Rockies, I could live in the woods year-round without needing protection against anything larger than a mean opossum, or possibly a meth-head. So no, I really don't know what the OP meant by "light woods protection." If you mean defense against brown bears, say so. Say what you mean, don't use personal euphemisms that are unclear to other people.

As for my general tenor, so many of these threads seem to be written by people (teenagers?) who seem to have big ideas and strong biases without seeming to have real knowledge of the subject that they are pontificating about. I'll leave it at that, as it's not my intent that this become some sort of grudge match.
 
who seem to have big ideas and strong biases without seeming to have real knowledge of the subject that they are pontificating about
You mean like the ones saying the 40 S&W is comparable to the 357 Mag?

If you mean defense against brown bears, say so.
I'm really not sure who would consider brown bears when the term Light woods protection comes up. You see, there are lots of different kinds of animals. There are black bears, cougars, feral hogs, rabid skunks/coyotes/bobcats/50 other species that aren't normally dangerous but will attack when rabid. There are snakes, there are 2 legged predators, there are aggressive domestic dogs (see Harlold Fish)....But let's go ahead and worry about the trees.
 
what about the STI Perfect Ten
That does look like a sweet hunting sidearm. A little large to carry for just protection while doing a lot of hiking, and certainly expensive.


None of the new cool stuff makes it onto the CA approved list. (Still waiting for a SCOTUS ruling that makes it unconstitutional.)
 
I'm really not sure who would consider brown bears when the term Light woods protection comes up. You see, there are lots of different kinds of animals. There are black bears, cougars, feral hogs, rabid skunks/coyotes/bobcats/50 other species that aren't normally dangerous but will attack when rabid. There are snakes, there are 2 legged predators, there are aggressive domestic dogs (see Harlold Fish)....But let's go ahead and worry about the trees.

You seem to have proven my point that the term is either meaningless or, at best, does not have a common and well-known meaning.

And I'd feel fine with a .40 or .45 against everything on that list, except feral hogs and perhaps cougars.
 
And I'd feel fine with a .40 or .45 against everything on that list, except feral hogs and perhaps cougar
You'd be OK with a .40 or .45 against a black bear but not a cougar? :scrutiny:


Yes, it's a broad term because it's a broad subject--making the term rather precise in that it reflects what it describes. But it's also one that obviously does not include trees, and logically does not include brown bear. I don't think anybody else here had any trouble figuring out what he was referring to.
 
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