Why the majority of semi-auto manufacturers stops at 45 ACP-40 S&W???

[saturno_v]

Z-Michigan


Maybe I need to use a spell check more often (talking about teenager remarks huh???!! ) but you need to learn a bit more about ballistics...

A full spec 40 S&W almost equivalent to a full spec 357 Magnum???!!! Dream on buddy......and by the way I carry a .40 regularly, I know the caliber very well so save the pontification, to use your own term...

Light wood protection means just that...defense against cougars, a small black bear, yotes, etc... far more comon than brownies in this corner of the lower 48...do I have to make some drawings for you to understand better???

I don't know where do you live in the Rockies but I can tell you that just in the area where I live (Snohomish western WA) we had 3 cougar attack in the last 6 months...

And I hike a lot so I know what I'm talking about....

 

[Z-Michigan]

Just FYI... if you go to the Hodgdon reloading data center, which covers three of the biggest powder brands (Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester), they show the following maximum load velocities for two common .40 bullet weights:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

155gr
.40 S&W = 1283fps
10mm = 1362fps
difference = 79fps

180gr
.40 S&W = 1159fps
10mm = 1287fps
difference = 128fps

I have not, of course, tried to verify these velocities. Also, while Hodgon doesn't indicate the test barrel lengths for either caliber, it would be customary to use a 4" test barrel for .40 S&W and a 5" test barrel for 10mm, and you can assume that the .40 S&W would pick up significant extra velocity if given an extra inch of barrel.

I live in Michigan, as indicated by my username and profile.

I would feel better about .40 against black bear than against large cats for the reasons discussed in the other thread (to which I have nothing to add).

10mm is a neat round, but if I were anticipating dangerous animals I'd prefer a .44 Magnum revolver, and if I'm just carrying for general protection and not with a specific threat, I'd rather have 15rds (or more) of 9mm or .40 in a lighter, smaller pistol.

 

[22-rimfire]

Nothing over 45ACP sells in the semi-auto lines. If I were a manufacturer and had made a 10mm, I produce a batch or two per year and hope they sell.

For me, I have no need for a 10mm pistol as I have revolvers that fit that niche.

you have more firepower....

Maybe, but I don't feel I need it. If I carry a gun for bear protection, it will be a 357 mag or 41 mag. If I am honestly trying to protect against really large bears, I'd carry a rifle and keep my 41 mag in its holster for a just in case scenario.

I have often thought about getting something in 10mm and 45GAP. But, other needs take a higher priority then a gun right now and that is likely not to change anytime in the next couple of years.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

There used to be federal regs limiting guns to .50 or less, or they would need to be registered as "destructive devices".

 

[Zoogster]

There used to be federal regs limiting guns to .50 or less, or they would need to be registered as "destructive devices".

Used to be?

That started in 1968 by adding destructive devices to the 1934 NFA. Along with AOWs.

It is still the case today. Shotguns are given an exemption under law, but the ATF has shown they can make any shotgun (most are over .50) illegal overnight be declaring it "unsporting". No additional legislation required. A great example that they do in fact make law, just by re-interpreting existing law, or previous interpretations at any time.
Rifled calibers in modern smokeless platforms above .50 are considered destructive devices. Rifled shotguns are an oddity. Many were unsure if they would be declared illegal initially, but over time they became popular and that fear subsided.

Essentially the feds have demonstrated absolute power over all guns over .50 and can give sporting exemptions, hunting exemptions, or even just outlaw the firearms that use them regardless of caliber or cartridge. Such was the case with the Amsel striker and Street Sweeper rotating cylinder shotguns.
There is a number of over .50 cartridges given big game hunting exemptions. Which means firearms chambered in those calibers are not destructive devices.

Since a shotgun is legally a shoulder fired weapon under federal law, non shoulder fired shotguns are technically legally not shotguns. Also under federal law a pistol must be rifled or it becomes an AOW, so no smoothbores.
There are some pistol grip shotguns, but they generally have a barrel over 18" if not an NFA item.
.410 shotguns are under .50 so they are different.
Any rifle or pistol chambered in over .50 if it is not an exempt cartridge is a destructive device. (or meets other exemptions like being a muzzle loader etc)

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Thanks, Zoogster. I didn't have time to search out current law, so didn't want to "quote" things for sure. As you stated, the NFA branch definitions get a little confusing at times.

 

[Holgersen]

Someone might have already said this but I really don't want to read through 4 pages of blog so I'm just going to say it.

I'm pretty sure for most glocks and Springfield XDs you can get a replacement .400 corbon barrel for their .45 lines of handguns. It is supposed to mimick the 10mm in power kind of like the .357 sig is supposed to mimick the .357 magnum. I think you can even use the same .45 magazines.

I might be wrong about the magazines, but the barrels aren't that expensive and you would have the power you are looking for.

 

[Mello]

saturno_v

Why the majority of semi-auto manufacturers stops at 45 ACP-40 S&W???
Basically if you want to go over the power level of 45-40 there is a big void...good luck to you...

Up to 45 and 40 the offering is limitless, every conceivable size, action, metal, polymer etc....

So why the vast majority of semi auto ends at 45-40 power levels???

Few semi-auto users want more power?? Are they wimpy??

Can someone solve the mistery for me??

I can only guess at the choices of others, so . . . . .

I guess the manufacturers do not perceive that there is sufficient market demand/profit in producing 10mm auto models. Maybe the production of the Fortis Bren Ten will stir up some interest in the 10mm auto.

Personally the Colt Delta Elite has been my choice for concealed carry for over two decades. I have shot over 10,000 full powered rounds through it. The 10mm auto is a great compromise in size, weight, diameter, penetration, power, recoil, trajectory, and accuracy. It is the most powerful cartridge that I can competently shoot as a defensive cartridge. Since I hand load I can load up to max or load down the power.

I chronographed some DoubleTap ammo recently through it. I was disappointed in the velocity average. DoubleTap claims that their 200gr Controlled Expansion JHP produces 1250fps / 694ft lbs. muzzle - Glock 20 (4.6" bbl). From my Delta Elite (5" bbl) the average velocity (10 rounds) at 10' at 88 degrees F was 1075 fps.

 

[wally]

One factor not to be ignored for people that shoot a lot and reload is that 10mm guns launch the brass a ridiculously long distance compared to 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP. Where I shoot it means I lose most of it most of the time. Negates all the extra fun 10mm has over the others.

I've got EAA Elite Match, Delta Elite, and Glock 20SF. They all throw the brass or even the lower powered CCI aluminum Blazer empties at least three times further than the others. Only my TT33 comes close in terms of mean distance of empties from the gun, but it shoots cheap non-reloadable surplus ammo so it doesn't much matter.

Its the loss of brass that makes most of my 10mm shooting be the CCI Blazer.

--wally.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Wally-

Some shooting ranges have a screen available to put up to the right of your station, to catch empties and make them drop neatly. It is basically window screening in a frame that can be hung from the overhead supports or lane dividers. The main purpose of the screen is to avoid hitting the guy next to you with empties, but it would also save the brass for you. If it's more like a home range you could probably build a portable screen to use.

 

[Bishop.357]

The 10mm is a fine round and no doubt we'll soon see alot more companies offering the products you want. As to why you mostly find .40S&W and .45acp its because these rounds are more then adequate for the purposes that so many of us use them for. If you want more power so bad buy a gun chambered for .357Sig, or start making power-house handloads. As for walking around the woods,if you come up against something with teeth shot placment is far more important then superpower ammo. Hell, a decent 9mm will kill a grizzly if you unload into something vital.

 

[wally]

Wally-

Some shooting ranges have a screen available to put up to the right of your station, to catch empties and make them drop neatly. It is basically window screening in a frame that can be hung from the overhead supports or lane dividers

Our club has pistol bays for IPSC-like practice, a covered 10yr range with tables for sight adjustment, and a couple of plate racks. None have lanes or dividers. Its a great place to shoot, and I rarely lose a significant amount brass except when shooting 10mm.

--wally.