V4Vendetta
member
"I would just have to carry a knife."
Unless you wear a Guy Fawlkes mask, a wig & a cape like me, that wouldn't work.
Unless you wear a Guy Fawlkes mask, a wig & a cape like me, that wouldn't work.
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Wife/Girlfriend is ANTI! What to do??
- Thread starter Ruger451
- Start date
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Lupinus
Member
pen-
It isn't about gun ownership, it is about principle.
It isn't about gun ownership, it is about principle.
PlayboyPenguin
member
And what principal would that be...that you have to be agreed with on everything or else?
XDKingslayer
member
Everyone pretty much says to run away. Geez, I wouldn't do that until I had a chance to arrange someone to grab her and pull her into the bushes on a dark night while we're on a walk and me ask her if she'd like me to rescue her with my gun or run and get the police while he continues to have his way with her.
Could change her mind...
Yes. That was sarcasm.
Maybe.
Could change her mind...
Yes. That was sarcasm.
Maybe.
scooterthegreat
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2006
- Messages
- 132
Isn't that what she is doing to him?
Playboypenguin, there's no way I'd do what you just listed in your post.
But then, it's a question of priorities.
Owning guns, shooting, and teaching folks how to shoot is basic and fundamental to who and what I am.
I'm a CCW instructor. I coach a collegiate air rifle team. I shoot a lot. I go hunting, but am a much more serious shooter than hunter.
Being asked to give up what is such a basic, fundamental part of who I am and what I do would just not be acceptable.
Even if I said, "Okay, honey, sure, I'll gladly give up an activity I love, that I've been doing since I was 8 years old, that's perfectly legal and proper, just in an effort to please you," it would never work out in the long run.
There would be resentment and anger, no matter how much I tried to pretend otherwise. It would come to an ugly end.
Are there things you have to give up when you get married?
Yes there are.
Dating comes to mind.
Spending the night somewhere without notifying anyone else is another one I can think of.
However, giving up a proper, legal, enjoyable part of who I am for the sake of a relationship?
Nope. Ain't gonna happen.
Any "loving relationship" with a person who "demands" that you give up something like that ain't a "loving relationship" no matter how much good sex you may or may not get in the short term.
Demanding your significant other to "give up" something like that just isn't "loving" no matter how you slice it.
hillbilly
But then, it's a question of priorities.
Owning guns, shooting, and teaching folks how to shoot is basic and fundamental to who and what I am.
I'm a CCW instructor. I coach a collegiate air rifle team. I shoot a lot. I go hunting, but am a much more serious shooter than hunter.
Being asked to give up what is such a basic, fundamental part of who I am and what I do would just not be acceptable.
Even if I said, "Okay, honey, sure, I'll gladly give up an activity I love, that I've been doing since I was 8 years old, that's perfectly legal and proper, just in an effort to please you," it would never work out in the long run.
There would be resentment and anger, no matter how much I tried to pretend otherwise. It would come to an ugly end.
Are there things you have to give up when you get married?
Yes there are.
Dating comes to mind.
Spending the night somewhere without notifying anyone else is another one I can think of.
However, giving up a proper, legal, enjoyable part of who I am for the sake of a relationship?
Nope. Ain't gonna happen.
Any "loving relationship" with a person who "demands" that you give up something like that ain't a "loving relationship" no matter how much good sex you may or may not get in the short term.
Demanding your significant other to "give up" something like that just isn't "loving" no matter how you slice it.
hillbilly
Lupinus
Member
That is what she is doing to him aint it? Me or guns is all or nothing on HER part.
The principle is I am who I am and I am not going to change that totaly. I will adapt and you will adapt but I am not going to totaly change who I am nor do I expect you to.
She doesn't have to like his guns but she has to accept them. In return he needs to reach a middle ground with her such as a budget on guns ammo range fees etc etc so that he isn't burning every dime on them and that he will store them properly etc.
Middle ground. You want to be pushed around and are willing to do a total change of yourself cause your wife says jump and are happy with that it is your buisness. Personally I will reach a middle ground but relationships where one person has to completly change themselves to the whims of the other are a farce.
A nice sentiment, however, how can you value a relationship with someone who dosen't value, or is at least tolerant, of something that's important to you and a big part of who you are?
It dosen't even really matter what it is she wants you to give up, although few things are a constitutionaly enumerated right like firearms ownership is.
If your spouse seriously wants to make you give up something you love, that person was a poor choice for a spouse, period.
At the risk of sounding a tad crass, Playboy, I suspect you only feel this way knowing you'll never have to make the choice... However, that's a very good thing, it means you have a good wife.
When we were engaged, my own wife played the same game, perhaps not as hard as some stories on the gun boards. My sixth sense told me it was more of a push-n-pull control gambit in our relationship, than it was about guns. It came up again right before we were married, then after we were married, and bought a house. Then it was that "I could keep them, but out of the hosue" when we learned we were having children. Each time I calmly put my foot down, and told her it wasn't negotiable. That ended it.
(Once, early on in the "game" she got pouty and taunted me in jest, saying she'd just have to get rid of my guns herself, and what-was-I-gonna-do-about-it etc. I shot back that I didn't want to be married to someone who was facing "Federal charges" for selling guns not "registered" to her. In her ignornace, she believed me, and the look on her face
was priceless. LOL...)My wife is still highly disinterested in firearms, but she's tolerant of my collection and shooting. And the pittance of time and money I've dontated to the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association. I've even gotten a firearm for my birthday every couple of years...
My own experiances tell me that in probably 90% of these "Help! My gf/fiancee/wife is an Anti, and is giving me ultimatums." type of threads, the underlying cause is realy just the testing of boundaries and the dominance games that are normal human nature, even in "good" relationships. 5% are people who've had bad experiances with firearms in thier past. And 5% hard-core anti's...
My simplest advice on significant others vs. your firearms? Get a safe, be responsible, and don't bend one inch on the issue of guns or RKBA. If it was meant to be, she'll relent, if it wasn't, she'll leave, and problem solved.
When sex-offender registry websites became all the rage, my wife's eyes were opened when she saw that we had one living only three doors down from us! (Fortunately he's only a third-degee offender, not with children, and it was over ten years ago. For all we know, it was a "date gone bad", and he got the book thrown at him..) nevertheless, it was a real eye-opener.
That night, she wanted to know the combination to my electronic quick-access pistol vault.
I'd guess that it's the principle that when one party in a partnership tries to force another to do something, it's no longer a partnership. It means that the one who disapproves and is trying to force his or her will on the other is placing his or her own opinions higher than the happiness of the other without any consideration of the issue. That's the antithesis of love.
PlayboyPenguin
member
Wouldn't the same be said that trying to make her be pro-gun is forcing your beliefs on her. If this post is legitimate and this is someone you "love" then what is worth more to you. The rants of zealots or your life together? We all have beliefs and ideals. When we partner some of them have to be diluted on both sides. If you can agree on most everything else would guns be a big enough reason for you to give up a chance of a life, children, grandchildren with someone you love? I would hope not. Seems to me if I could be happy with someone I would settle for just owning a plinker that is only used at the range and locked in a case in the garage the rest of the time.
This might be a good way...
...to find out more about this relationship and how the two of you handle disagreements together (particularly how she handles disagreements).
If:
1) she is uncomfortable with firearms, but willing to learn more and find out more
-or-
2) she is uncomfortable with firearms and not interested in learning, but doesn't mind your interest and participation and is willing to "put up with it"
-then I think that shows a positive response to disagreements.
However, if her position is that she is uncomfortable with firearms, doesn't know anything about them, isn't willing to learn, and isn't willing to tolerate anyone else having a different opinion,
-then I think this is also a pretty good predictor of how she will respond to disagreements on other topics in the future, and you might want to re-think marrying this person.
Every marriage has disagreements and differences of opinion. You need to find out if this woman is a person who can disagree in a reasonable and negotiable way. If not, then I agree with the others -- RUN, FORREST, RUN!
...to find out more about this relationship and how the two of you handle disagreements together (particularly how she handles disagreements).
If:
1) she is uncomfortable with firearms, but willing to learn more and find out more
-or-
2) she is uncomfortable with firearms and not interested in learning, but doesn't mind your interest and participation and is willing to "put up with it"
-then I think that shows a positive response to disagreements.
However, if her position is that she is uncomfortable with firearms, doesn't know anything about them, isn't willing to learn, and isn't willing to tolerate anyone else having a different opinion,
-then I think this is also a pretty good predictor of how she will respond to disagreements on other topics in the future, and you might want to re-think marrying this person.
Every marriage has disagreements and differences of opinion. You need to find out if this woman is a person who can disagree in a reasonable and negotiable way. If not, then I agree with the others -- RUN, FORREST, RUN!
ANTI
If you're not a scary dude, then she seems to have adopted 'anti-gun' politics, or have deeper resentments. Lots of women don't care for war movies, and will not watch them. Seems like lots of those women are okay with target shooting and gun ownership. The idea of collecting several guns might upset lots of women?
If you're not a scary dude, then she seems to have adopted 'anti-gun' politics, or have deeper resentments. Lots of women don't care for war movies, and will not watch them. Seems like lots of those women are okay with target shooting and gun ownership. The idea of collecting several guns might upset lots of women?
Technosavant
Member
Penguin, you seem to jump to conclusions about the various posters on this board an awful lot; this is the second thread in less than a week where you begin a post with "I'd sure hate to X with some of the people..."
Before marriage is a separate situation from after. Marriage is a sacred institution, to be entered into only with full knowledge. To get married to a person with whom there are unresolved (potentially significant) issues is to set yourself up for disaster. This goes beyond the simple possession of an object to issues of basic personal freedom, and also enters into the realm of control issues.
You can walk away before marriage with only emotional hurt, which will heal with time. If you get married, you then are open to the possible destruction of the rest of your life. Staying married to a control freak is like living in a prison. Divorce will ruin a person financially.
The advice here is given to a person who is NOT married. If she cannot respect him in his hobbies, provided those hobbies are not illegal or immoral, it does not bode well for the future, and I would NOT move such a relationship forward until that issue finds resolution to the satisfaction of both parties.
Chill out, man. I think it is a bit presumptious to say "dump her", but at the same time, I would recommend against building long term plans around her.
Before marriage is a separate situation from after. Marriage is a sacred institution, to be entered into only with full knowledge. To get married to a person with whom there are unresolved (potentially significant) issues is to set yourself up for disaster. This goes beyond the simple possession of an object to issues of basic personal freedom, and also enters into the realm of control issues.
You can walk away before marriage with only emotional hurt, which will heal with time. If you get married, you then are open to the possible destruction of the rest of your life. Staying married to a control freak is like living in a prison. Divorce will ruin a person financially.
The advice here is given to a person who is NOT married. If she cannot respect him in his hobbies, provided those hobbies are not illegal or immoral, it does not bode well for the future, and I would NOT move such a relationship forward until that issue finds resolution to the satisfaction of both parties.
Chill out, man. I think it is a bit presumptious to say "dump her", but at the same time, I would recommend against building long term plans around her.
An extreme example, and perhaps you'll just discount me as a "zealot", but it's a real one. There were a couple million unarmed Jews in Europe during WWII, that never had a "life, children, or grandchildren with someone they loved.", or if they did, it was cut drasticaly short.
Instead, they were shoved into ovens, or put into holes in the ground and shot.
Also, no one can deny that crime happens. And there's no guarantee you and your spouse would never be a victim during your natural lifetimes. I'll freely admit that owning firearms isn't a guarantee either, but I'll defend to the death that they are one more tool in your favor.
How does rape, kidnapping, and murder stack up against being "sensitive" to a spouse's anti-gun feelings?
Although, you still haven't answered my question. How is your wife with your gun ownership?
Never mind, I think you've already given an answer.
I still say it's far too easy to make these grandiose "everlasting love" proclamations, if you've never had any cause to believe they'll be tested...
realmswalker
Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2003
- Messages
- 415
The best way to settle would be to get your family together, pro gun, and her family together, anti gun. All of you will meet in a large field. Both families will pick a weapon of their choice. Of course your family will pick guns, and her family will probably pick some liberal peace chant to sling at you. Whoever wins gets their way. I'm going to put my money on you my friend.
In all seriousness though, if the woman you want to marry in no way wants to compromise about this, then she probaly will be unwilling to compromise about most things where she wants her way. Marriage is about compromise. I'm not even close to marriage but Being in law enforcement I hear alot about marriages, so I think my advice has some validity.
In all seriousness though, if the woman you want to marry in no way wants to compromise about this, then she probaly will be unwilling to compromise about most things where she wants her way. Marriage is about compromise. I'm not even close to marriage but Being in law enforcement I hear alot about marriages, so I think my advice has some validity.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
If he wants to own a gun himself, and his S.O. is trying to compel him to live by her beliefs, then that's a control issue.
If he were trying to force her to get a CCW permit, attend training classes, and keep a gun herself, or constantly go shooting with him, that would also be a control issue.
Telling her that the issue is not negotiable, and that his hobby is his hobby, is not forcing his beliefs on her. It is merely not letting her force her beliefs on him.
FWIW, my wife was mildly anti when we were first married and was not comfortable with me keeping a loaded handgun around (though she was certainly OK with me loading it when there was cause for concern), but she came around and got a Florida CCW, a Glock 26, a Russian SKS, and now wants a 1911.
PlayboyPenguin
member
technosavant
Tell me....Where did I jump to any conclusions? I made a statement about posts that say "run away" or "dump her". Do you not see those posts??? Maybe I am seeing things. Alot of marriages end in divorce. Some painfully and some not. However, alot of them last for many years and bring alot of hapiness. Better to have loved and lost than never to love at all. If you go into a marriage feeling like you are right and they are wrong then it will probably be a bad experience. If you are willing to be flexible as well as expect them to yield to your desires it may work. I have no problem with people ssaying "try to work on a compromise" but the ones that jump to "run away" are probably not the ones you want to take relationship advice from.
PS- I am always skeptical of these posts. It seems like every week there is one of the "My girlfriend is anti" threads that end up with "I dumped her". Seems to me like they are often just some lonely guy trying to seek justification for his inability to be in a productive relationship.
Tell me....Where did I jump to any conclusions? I made a statement about posts that say "run away" or "dump her". Do you not see those posts??? Maybe I am seeing things. Alot of marriages end in divorce. Some painfully and some not. However, alot of them last for many years and bring alot of hapiness. Better to have loved and lost than never to love at all. If you go into a marriage feeling like you are right and they are wrong then it will probably be a bad experience. If you are willing to be flexible as well as expect them to yield to your desires it may work. I have no problem with people ssaying "try to work on a compromise" but the ones that jump to "run away" are probably not the ones you want to take relationship advice from.
PS- I am always skeptical of these posts. It seems like every week there is one of the "My girlfriend is anti" threads that end up with "I dumped her". Seems to me like they are often just some lonely guy trying to seek justification for his inability to be in a productive relationship.
PlayboyPenguin- Conversely, you can waste a lot of good years and miss opportunities of finding a better match when slogging it out to save a bad relationship. Not to mention the financial repercussions and legal risks of a mismatch that ends nastily, especially when firearms are involved.
.
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PlayboyPenguin
member
torpid
So am I to understand that if you agree on everything except guns then it is a bad match? the only thing this quy stated as being a problem was her dislike of guns. Are there really people on here that allow gun ownership to completely rule their lives to the point of it being THE element of who they are as a person? I am pro-RKBA but it does little to define who I am as a person.
So am I to understand that if you agree on everything except guns then it is a bad match? the only thing this quy stated as being a problem was her dislike of guns. Are there really people on here that allow gun ownership to completely rule their lives to the point of it being THE element of who they are as a person? I am pro-RKBA but it does little to define who I am as a person.
Black Majik
Member
Hi Chris,
The only thing I can really tell you is to be patient. Take your time, she'll come around. Try not to force the issue upon her about firearms and your shooting hobby. I'm also located in Southern California, and while my friends knew that I loved to shoot, I never really talked about it much. They all saw how much enjoyment I got from going to the range. I'd mention it every once in a while, and the mystique finally piqued their interest. Eventually I had THEM coming to me to teach them to shoot. My last girlfriend also was 50/50 on the firearm issue, until I took her to the range. She had so much fun that she wanted to go back the next day.
It'll take time, hopefully she'll take a turn for the better. Otherwise, there are A LOT of other women out there willing to share the firearm experience with you. Trust me.
Good luck.
The only thing I can really tell you is to be patient. Take your time, she'll come around. Try not to force the issue upon her about firearms and your shooting hobby. I'm also located in Southern California, and while my friends knew that I loved to shoot, I never really talked about it much. They all saw how much enjoyment I got from going to the range. I'd mention it every once in a while, and the mystique finally piqued their interest. Eventually I had THEM coming to me to teach them to shoot. My last girlfriend also was 50/50 on the firearm issue, until I took her to the range. She had so much fun that she wanted to go back the next day.
It'll take time, hopefully she'll take a turn for the better. Otherwise, there are A LOT of other women out there willing to share the firearm experience with you. Trust me.
Good luck.
madmike
Member
If she can't tolerate you having your life, dump her.
It's the same as her insisting you have to go to her church, or not go to church, or not watch movies she doesn't like even if she's not there.
Let's pick a comparison: she's a vegetarian. You're a vegetarian. You decide to start eating meat. She insists not only will SHE not eat meat, but YOU can't keep meat in the house or eat it when traveling, because to her it's evil.
This is a control issue.
I'm as agnostic as they come. My wife is Wiccan, with aspirations of being the first Wiccan chaplain in the military. I find her religion (as opposed to her LIFE PHILOSOPHY, which is not the same thing) to be as silly as any other religion or myth out there. I'm outspoken about this position of mine in my writing.
But I don't hassle her about it, and I helped her make an athame (ritual knife) to her specs. Nor does she insist I have to help in rituals (though I have, as far as providing resources and searching out prayers and such). I'm quite proud of her. It's just not something I have any interest in, and religion makes me VERY uncomfortable. When it comes up in conversation other than as a subject to be dissected and studied, I get antsy and politely excuse myself. I don't like stepping foot in most churches or groves, in part because as a non-believer, I feel I'm intruding. I get absolutely CREEPED OUT by people talking about their imaginary friend as if he's there with them (this is my personal belief, you understand, and not a condemnation of any faith. If it works for you and you don't hassle others, I'm fine with it. Just please do NOT attempt to convert me. I will get rude, then I will get violent if you don't stop).
But I would NEVER tell her she can't have her books or tools in the house. (I almost did when we met. It took some mind over no-matter to look at it rationally.)
It won't work. I've seen too many couples with the, "I despise his/her religion/politics/obsession with guns/violent movies/strip bars/spending money on cars, but I've laid down the law and know he/she will come around/agree with me/do as I want eventually."
Sorry, no. There are things that people can change, and things they can't. Asking them to change the latter is cruel, manipulative and controlling and not a healthy basis for a relationship. Agreeing to do so will only make you unhappy. Expecting them to agree with something you feel contrary to them about is unrealistic. If you can't agree to disagree on the subject (or if she can't, in this case), it's a trainwreck waiting to happen.
Enough on this, I'll post another block separately.
It's the same as her insisting you have to go to her church, or not go to church, or not watch movies she doesn't like even if she's not there.
Let's pick a comparison: she's a vegetarian. You're a vegetarian. You decide to start eating meat. She insists not only will SHE not eat meat, but YOU can't keep meat in the house or eat it when traveling, because to her it's evil.
This is a control issue.
I'm as agnostic as they come. My wife is Wiccan, with aspirations of being the first Wiccan chaplain in the military. I find her religion (as opposed to her LIFE PHILOSOPHY, which is not the same thing) to be as silly as any other religion or myth out there. I'm outspoken about this position of mine in my writing.
But I don't hassle her about it, and I helped her make an athame (ritual knife) to her specs. Nor does she insist I have to help in rituals (though I have, as far as providing resources and searching out prayers and such). I'm quite proud of her. It's just not something I have any interest in, and religion makes me VERY uncomfortable. When it comes up in conversation other than as a subject to be dissected and studied, I get antsy and politely excuse myself. I don't like stepping foot in most churches or groves, in part because as a non-believer, I feel I'm intruding. I get absolutely CREEPED OUT by people talking about their imaginary friend as if he's there with them (this is my personal belief, you understand, and not a condemnation of any faith. If it works for you and you don't hassle others, I'm fine with it. Just please do NOT attempt to convert me. I will get rude, then I will get violent if you don't stop).
But I would NEVER tell her she can't have her books or tools in the house. (I almost did when we met. It took some mind over no-matter to look at it rationally.)
It won't work. I've seen too many couples with the, "I despise his/her religion/politics/obsession with guns/violent movies/strip bars/spending money on cars, but I've laid down the law and know he/she will come around/agree with me/do as I want eventually."
Sorry, no. There are things that people can change, and things they can't. Asking them to change the latter is cruel, manipulative and controlling and not a healthy basis for a relationship. Agreeing to do so will only make you unhappy. Expecting them to agree with something you feel contrary to them about is unrealistic. If you can't agree to disagree on the subject (or if she can't, in this case), it's a trainwreck waiting to happen.
Enough on this, I'll post another block separately.
Dave Markowitz
Member
My wife went from completely anti, to neutral, to, "I want a nice little pink gun to keep in the bedroom." It is possible to convert someone who is antigun based on ignorance, though it may take awhile.
Possibly so.
Many single issues could be as contentious to a relationship (bigotry, wanting/not wanting to have children, etc.).
Ownership of firearms taps into a deeper area for many. One of them is self-sufficiency and also being willing to protect/back up your partner in the gravest situations. For many it signals a deal breaker if the other person would not only not deign to touch a firearm, but actively opposes their use by either partner. What they may perceive as their own anti-gun moral "virtue" is regarded as a liability to the pro-RKBA partner.
To speak frankly for myself, I would not have much respect for a S/O that wouldn't use justified force with a firearm to defend their loved ones, or who would want to remove the option from our home. All responsibility for protection would then fall solely onto my shoulders, and yet still be fettered by my partner from having some of the most effective options for self-defense. I'd be good enough to stand "face the foe" and bleed on their behalf with an uncontroversial baseball bat in hand while they called 911, but I wouldn't be trustworthy enough to do it with a gun in hand as that would be "wrong"?
I'd be looking for a partner who was my equal, not one who wished to make me equally defenseless.
.
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Lupinus
Member
my girlfriend says I can build/get myself an AR so long as I build/get her a pink one to be its sister...I'm debating if it is worth it.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
I went through something like this before I got married, ony it involved racing motorcycles. I made it clear to my then-fiance that if she thought she could get me to give up riding fast motorcycles she must be under the mistaken impression that she was marrying someone else.
I think the advice to "stick to your guns" (pardon the pun) is sound. I'm not advocating you "ditch the b**ch," but rather choose this time to make a stand. The success you have now will determine the degree of success you have in your marriage. One of the biggest things people have to work out when they get married is learning where they end and their partner begins. It is good to define those boundaries early for a happy union.
I think the advice to "stick to your guns" (pardon the pun) is sound. I'm not advocating you "ditch the b**ch," but rather choose this time to make a stand. The success you have now will determine the degree of success you have in your marriage. One of the biggest things people have to work out when they get married is learning where they end and their partner begins. It is good to define those boundaries early for a happy union.
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