Wisconsin shootings

[Hkmp5sd]

So how does a police dept get around federal law by providing someone under 21 with a gun.

As stated, 21 is the age to purchase from dealer. However, LEO agencies are always exempted from federal gun laws anyway. That's why they get to play with new machineguns, import "non-sporting" long guns and handguns that are not available to the rest of us.

 

[sacp81170a]

How does the whole part time officer thing work in general? Is it fairly common?

It really depends on state law. In Arkansas, there are several different levels of part time certification, and one can be a full time employee without being a POST certified LEO, one example being jailers. The break down is on how many hours a week you are allowed to work and whether or not you can work unsupervised. As far as all police being unionized, not around here. Wisconsin law would dictate what level of qualification you'd have to have and whether you'd have to be under the direct supervision of a certified LEO.

 

[.cheese.]

wow.... I wonder what set that whole thing off?

 

[ilbob]

18 for soldiers, be tough to go higher for other occupations.

One thing people forget about the military is that while most people enter the military at 18 or 19, there is an incredible network of very close supervision built into the system. You are not sent out by yourself with little or no supervision like cops are.

There is a corporal watching every private, and a sgt watching every corporal in the army.

There is rarely any effective supervision of cops. It is just not practical.

 

[Deanimator]

One thing people forget about the military is that while most people enter the military at 18 or 19, there is an incredible network of very close supervision built into the system. You are not sent out by yourself with little or no supervision like cops are.

There is a corporal watching every private, and a sgt watching every corporal in the army.

There is rarely any effective supervision of cops. It is just not practical.

You must have been in a different Army than I was in the '80s.

AHA (Ammo Holding Area) guards at Camp Howze, Korea were regularly unsupervised for extended periods of time. They were known to fire rounds off for no reason.

That's just ONE example.

 

[Blackbeard]

I don't think we need to go sending this off to the Bradys/HCI/Etc. It would be it bad taste so close to the incident. We just file it away and pull it out whenever they suggest that only police and military should have guns.

P.S. Anyone know of any other LEOs who have gone postal? I wonder what the percentage is for LEO vs. non-LEO gun owners.

 

[TexasRifleman]

P.S. Anyone know of any other LEOs who have gone postal? I wonder what the percentage is for LEO vs. non-LEO gun owners.

The only crime committed with a legally "tax stamped" NFA machine gun was by a police officer so the argument hasn't been able to hold water in a long time.

Facts are not going to stop the Brady's and others from their pursuit.

 

[sacp81170a]

There is rarely any effective supervision of cops. It is just not practical.

It varies from state to state, but you're not allowed on patrol by yourself in Arkansas until you complete a 1-year probationary period under the direct supervision of an FTO(Field Training Officer) who is an experienced officer certified by POST to conduct and sign off on field training. This applies even if you've gone to the academy. It sounds like this guy was too young to be on street patrol on his own. Nevertheless, he was an LEO and if he was a legitimate full time employee with patrol duties and arrest power he had to have taken a psych eval and background investigation.

There's sometimes a time lag between the hiring of an individual and the completion of the BI and psych eval, but it should be very short, on the order of weeks rather than months. Until then, you're typically assigned desk duty. There just isn't enough information out yet to say what degree of training and evaluation this guy had.

Edited to add: There is truly a difference between fully qualified patrol officers and officers in training. 20 sounds too young to be fully qualified, so calling this guy a "Sheriff's Deputy" is a little misleading because most folks not in law enforcement aren't familiar with the training and selection process.

 

[Justin]

The thought of using this event as a political soapbox is both utterly stupid and incredibly tacky.

 

[ilbob]

I still would like to know what a part time officer is?

There are a lot of PT cops everywhere, especially in smaller departments. Sometimes they are retired from larger departments and are just looking for spending money.

It is very expensive to send someone to cop school. It is cost effective to hire someone PT (or even FT) after someone else has footed the bill to send him to cop school.

This guy apparently was FT with the sheriff's dept and PT with the town where he went nuts.

I ran across a guy once who worked 4-5 12-hour shifts a week with three different small departments in this area. IIRC, he was a refugee from a suburban Chicago department and was tired of the internal politics, so he arranged his own gig.

The police unions have made a serious effort to get rid of PT cops. Personally, I think they bring some perspective to policing that is a good thing. Used to be you could go to a 40 hour class and get some kind of PT cop certificate. Now you have to take the full PTI class to work as a cop. It also used to be possible to take private PTI lessons and get certified. Several small departments went that route. The state changed the rules a few years ago and made it mandatory that you go through either one of the two police academies. Chicago runs one, everyone else in the state goes to the other one.

 

[TexasRifleman]

The thought of using this event as a political soapbox is both utterly stupid and incredibly tacky.

Of course it is, but that never stops the anti's. They were out screaming over the VA Tech thing before the brass had even hit the ground.

We should at least be prepared with a response if they decide to take up the banner on this one somehow.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

18 for soldiers, be tough to go higher for other occupations.

Actually, it's 17.

 

[Radjxf]

On Foxnews they were discussing "how did he get a badge" and "how did he get through the system". Never ceases to amaze me at the utter stupidity of this comment. Maybe there's a crystal ball somewhere. Employers could ask it things like "will this guy come in and shoot people someday?" or perhaps, "will he sit at his desk reading THR threads all day?".....
I agree this is no tragedy. Just more fuel for the anti's regardless of this perpetrators's profession.

 

[Big45]

I agree this is no tragedy. Just more fuel for the anti's regardless of this perpetrators's profession.

I disagree with the last part. I think most people would see this and say, "wow, who can you trust these days?" and nothing like, "wow, even the police shouldn't have guns!!!"

To me this is excellent counterpoint material to the "guns for LEO/military only" argument

 

[TexasRifleman]

Fox News showing a press conference now. The local officials said 30 rounds fired from an AR15 and that was what he would have been issued as his duty rifle. Won't say if it was his duty weapon or not yet. That will be critical for us in the pro-anti fight. Though it's sad to use something like this that way the anti folks have not been afraid to exploit a thing like this for their own purposes.

So here it is, a "mass murder with an assault rifle". I sure hope it turns out to be his issued weapon.



Also said he had been at the house all night partying, then left after an argument and returned with the rifle and opened fire at about 2:45am.

 

[Geno]

Yeah...watching it as I type. Seems open and honest. No punches being pulled, and that is certainly a much-needed fact on the side of their local LEOs. What I most appreciated was the comment that at the instant that they became aware that he was one of their own, he ceased to be an LEO and became a fugitive. All-in-all, not a bad showing.

 

[Notch]

A twenty year old police officer makes NO SENSE at all. A tragedy true, but who the hell is "driving the car"?

 

[RNB65]

Who stopped him? Was he shot or did he commit suicide?

 

[Oregon Street]

the fox news guy on the scene said it was an "R15 shotgun" :banghead:

why don't these people do at least one minute of research?

 

[mbt2001]

I saw that too...

On CNN they where avoiding saying that any of the guns were "police issue" as if that makes a bloody difference. They also kept referring to him as a "kid" which he wasn't.

 

[Deanimator]

why don't these people do at least one minute of research?

Why should they start NOW?

By my observation, there's NOTHING more intellectually lazy and dishonest than a "journalist". It's obvious that they do no objective research, merely plagiarizing handouts from political organizations with whom the individual reporter agrees.

A friend's daughter is studying journalism at Kent State. I once said to her, "Don't you think you're too smart and too honest to be a journalist?"

 

[Big45]

I just asked my wife what she thought. She hadn't heard of the story, and is indifferent to guns. I told her the story and asked what she thought.

Her first comment was, "that's terrible that he was a cop especially."

This isn't going to come back to the gun he used. This will be argued on age, profession, and background/mental checks.

 

[Geno]

I hope that the reference to "...Mr. Peterson..." instead of "...Officer Peterson..." was not an attempt at deflection. I hope that it was not. I believe in accurate description and explanation of events. That was the only part that sounded odd.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Who stopped him? Was he shot or did he commit suicide?

He was shot by a police sniper.

Fox news mentions, an AR15 was the weapon he used (might be issue) and was killed by one of the officers on the scene "sniper"...

 

[mbt2001]

The spin game...

Oddly, I picked up some rat poison the other day and saw the warning that said "Using this product for uses OTHER THAN it's intended purpose is a violation of federal law..." Talk about useless verbage on a package! Some liberal feel good law.

I doubt my arch-enemy is going to pick up a box of rat poison and say "Doh! Foiled again by the quick witted authorities and lawmakers of this country..." No, he is going to stuff it in an eggroll and feed it to me, breaking several laws for the perceived gain of having me dead.