"Yet Another Badge Question" ???

[David]

As many of you know, my friend recently retired as a LEO.

He expects to be moving to Florida.

Since he is not a "computer person" (he thinks the Internet is a device to catch fish), I will ask his questions.

Upon retirement, he received is LEO retirement ID card and a LEO retirement badge (it says "retired officer" -- otherwise it looks any typical LEO badge).

He plans on getting his concealed carry permit when he gets to Florida, and his question is will it be okay to carry his "retirement badge" next to his holster just in case someone sees his weapon, they hopefully won't panic.

Also, in case he ever is in a situation where his has to reveal his firearm in public for self-defense, would it be okay to hold his retirement badge in his "weak" hand so responding LE will know he is not the "bad guy".

I told him of the many "cons" against carrying a
so-called "concealed carry badge" -- but do these same "cons" apply to a retired LEO badge?

What would you do if you were a retired LEO -- carry or not carry your retirement badge?

He would welcome any opinions you may have on this topic.

Thanks...

 

[Blackhawk]

Interesting questions I haven't thought about before.

He's not a FL LEO, but a retired LEO should command respect. I'd ask the local LEOs when he gets to FL.

Carrying his retirement badge is, IMO, a great idea depending on the rules of its issuance. However, flashing it under any circumstances is probably a big no-no, but that's different from showing it to other LEOs should the circumstances warrant it.

The main criterion is that he has a badge that was legitimately issued compared to the bozos who buy fake badges intended strictly to deceive others.

Give him my congratulations!

 

[David]

Blackhawk -- good points!

He is a really "low key" type of person, and he would only "flash" his retirement badge in an emergency situation.

I wonder if there are any other retired LEOs out there, or current Florida LEOs?

Thanks for your opinions.

 

[Russ]

It will likely get him out of traffic tickets if he happens to let the LEO who pulls him over see it.

 

[Chipperman]

We don't need no stinking badges!

(sorry, someone had to say it).

The concern I have about wearing it on the belt is that people may think he's is impersonating a LEO. Obviously he is not going to let it show on purpose, so it's probably a moot point.

 

[Topgun]

Seems to me

that a RETIRED LEO would want above all else to stay away from trouble.

He ain't gonna ARREST no one.....an he ain't gonna be better off with the perp thinkin he is a COP.

IMO, badges belong on cops who are ON THE JOB.

Nowhere else.

I have CCW and the BEST scenario I can imagine is just putting the gun away at night. Unseen and unused.

 

[Jack19]

David, my grandfather, his brothers, my uncles, and cousins, all carried their retirement badges with them until the day they died; those still living, carry it every day. It is/was as much a part of them as their skin. These guys were tough old street cops, the only time it was seen was when interacting with on-the-job officers. I'm sure your friend knows the rules, and I'm sure he'll do the same.

 

[444]

I am surprised that he would ask something like this. How would he have handled the situation when he was on-duty if this same situation occured with a retired cop ? I personally wouldn't display the badge at all. If he became involved in some kind of situation, I might mention that I was a retired cop, but I certainly wouldn't whip out my badge.
On the other hand, I very well might carry a badge wallet with the retirement badge in it. We all know that certain curtesies are extended to police. And if someone happens to see the badge, OK.

 

[David]

Thanks for all the posts.

He was a LEO from a small town were everyone knew everyone.

He plans on retiring to the "big city" in South Florida -- as they used to say in their Florida tourists ads -- "the rules are different here"!

That is why he is seeking the opinions of retired and current LEOs (as well as any other THR member) on this matter.

I will see him on Moday, and I will pass along your opinions.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Flashing a badge by a person who has no legal authority behind the badge is not a good idea.

Retirement badges are about as okay to wear as Concealed Weapon Permit badges that you can get off the net for $20 or so. They carry no legal authority and the people who buy them buy them with the hope that it will buy them some time or keep them from getting shot by local cops who might roll up on the scene after the action has taken place. While these folks always claim that they have NO intent on impersonating an officer, the whole point of having the badge is to make bad guys uncomfortable and put officers at ease until the details of the situation are worked out. In other words, they want to be recognized as an LEO but would never say they were. That is still impersnating an officer.

Dallas officers (as far as I know) who carry conspicuously must also have a conspicuous badge. Many wear the badge and gun on the belt together such that if they should take off their sportscoat, the badge is clearly visible right next to the gun. Apparently, your retired friend is trying to garnish that same status of making it okay for his weapon to be seen if he fails to legally keep it concealed as required by law. He is hoping to put people at ease to make them think he might be an officer if they see his gun. Like it or not, he is impersonating an officer, at least in a passive manner. That just ain't right.

Since he is an LEO, he might consider joining the local police or sheriff's reserve. In that way, he will still be an LEO and having a badge won't be a problem and his only real obligations will be for the occasional search or parade duty.

 

[DeputyVaughn]

One of the proudest moments in my life was when the Sheriff gave me my badge. I wear it with pride and wear it on my belt when I'm off duty. I'd imagine your retired LEO friend felt the same way. Being retired won't make him stop being a cop, he's just off duty, permanently. I'd say it's fine for him to wear his retirement badge, but he should conceal it. If an incident occurs that requires him to show or use his CCW sidearm, showing responding officers that he is a retired officer himself may carrry some weight. However it should not be used to "get off the hook". No matter what he's still responsible for his actions.

Scott

 

[SKN]

Post engagement tactic

When I instructed new officers about off-duty conduct they were told that if they carried a firearm, they needed to carry their star. If they did not go armed off duty, then there was no need for credentials. The idea was that should they become involved in an off duty confontation in which they presented their firearm, they could easily be identified by witnessses dialing 911 and to responding LEOs by holding their star aloft at the point they had the situation under control.

Armed citizens have no such easily identified credentials and so, in the CHL/defensive pistol classes I now instruct I suggest that the citizen involved in an armed confrontation in a public venue verbally identify themselves as an 'armed citizen' and direct any witnesses to dial 911 and to tell the dispatcher their description and location. Again, the idea is to avoid a case of mistaken identity by responding LEOs.

I have a beautiful solid gold retirement star which, when I'm armed I could carry, but usually don't because I already know what my post engagement protocol will be.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Um, on retirement, I do believe he DOES stop being a law enforcement officer. If he wants a badge, great, but it should not be presented with his gun or worn displayed on his belt with his gun just in case he gets careless and fails to conceal properly.

I could go buy a badge and claim to be a retired officer from Podunkville as well...and wear the badge just in case I fail to conceal my gun properly. That would not make it right or give it credibility.

If the retired guy wants to carry his 'retirement' badge in his wallet, that is fine and dandy. He can keep that proudly obtained badge safe and secure and share it only with those for whom he opens his wallet. Wearing it on the belt next to his gun is inappropriate since the reasoning is for it being there in case the gun gets spotted. In short, he is hoping to be confused for an active duty (not retired) leo and that ain't right. He is not active duty and has no rights beyond any other CCW person concerning concealed carry and failure to conceal.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I think Blackhawk raises some good points. Retired cops generally don't play cop (they're not rookies anymore) and aren't going to go out of their way to find trouble. If they have to take action, having a badge adds to their credibility to the responding LEO.

 

[Matt G]

Interesting takes on this.

It's also interesting to note that, in some states (particularly back east), a retired cop is one of the few non-LEO's who can actually carry concealed. In those areas, retirement badges are issued, and expected to carried. I actually read an article in, I think, Police Chief magazine, in which they were instructing retired officers to holster and hold up their retirement badges, post-engagement. (The article was geared toward easterners.)

Me, I'm torn. Presenting a badge in an "incident" is pretty much synonymous with declaring "I'm a cop." Your actions will be heard far more than your words if the balloon goes up. Depending on your state's local laws, this could be construed as "impersonating a police officer," which adds an unfortunate twist to what could have been cleared up otherwise rather quickly.

My take? Carry the retirement in a cut-out wallet (preferably in a concealed compartment), but do NOT wear it on the belt. Wear a concealed pistol as befits the concealed carry laws in Florida, and carry the appropriate concealed carry license. When asked for it, present the CHL/CCW card. Do NOT plan on presenting the badge, simply out of course. Stating "I'm a retired cop" and presenting credentials to prove it may be helpful at some point, but that should be secondary.

As an active patrol officer, I would give the MOST weight to a retired cop who conducted himself in that manner. Funny thing is, I've never had the situation come up. Oh, I've run across some former cops in my time, but either (a) I knew them, (b)They hadn't made it to retirement, or (c) They just didn't feel the need to present any retirement LEO credentials. Part of this may be because Texas gives almost NO credit to someone for being retired LEO, even if they put in 30 years on the job honorably. About the only thing that I've seen that approaches this, is that TX law allows for the head of the Texas Dept. of Public Safety (D.P.S.) to bestow upon honorably retired D.P.S. Troopers and agents the status of "Special Ranger", which basically is an honorary lifetime LEO award.

 

[David]

Super, super posts!!!

I will pass along all your pros and cons, as well as your congratulations.

He will appreciate your kind words.

Again, thanks for your 2 cents...

 

[RetiredinMobile06]

Retired Officers

I have read some concerning statements re retired officers displaying badges and would like to comment. You can not and will not be arrested for impersonating as when you retire...you are still a police officer just not active. You only lose the privilege if you are convicted of a felony or certain high misdemeanors...in which your POST will be revoked. That being said: You have the right to carry and if you prefer-to display your badge. Personally,I carry mine in my purse in a leather badge case with my Police I D...I, like many, do not go looking for trouble nor state my previous career, etc...but should I find myself in a position that needs intervention and I can safely do so, I will react to preserve life. I would definitely announce to arriving officers my position and follow their instruction re securing weapon, etc...just use common sense. Point is a retired officer is still an officer and you do not put your training in the attic when you retire and is appreciated by active LEO if needed.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Encase the badge in Lucite and leave it on the mantel as a conversation piece. Carrying the ID card should be enough and will keep people at the gas station from asking directions when they see the badge.

I gave up policing years ago, but my current job requries me to wear a badge. You'd be amazed at the number of random people who 1) don't read the badge 2) don't recognize that it's a completely different design from the local PD... and stop me in random places thinking I'm still on the force.

 

[DPris]

Mobile,
I'd strongly dispute your position that a retired officer is still an officer.
Most definitely not in my state, or in any other that I'm aware of.

The state grants LE "status" based on current certification and current employment.
Once retired, certifications expire & there is no further employment, so there is no longer any "officer" status or authority attached to a retiree whatsoever.
In my state, no special priviledges are retained by a retiree, aside from the ability to maintain the concealed carry authorization necessary to carry nationwide under federal guidelines.

Otherwise, retirees have to go through the same concealed carry requirements as "normal" citizens.
No more authority or obligation to act than any other citizen.


Regarding the original post, I have a retired badge in a badge wallet.
Since I see no advantage in carrying it, I never have. I DO carry the ID card.

I see no advantage in the badge because there's no need to carry it in a wallet when the card is the actual "proof" of retired status, and no good reason to carry it on the belt since I don't want it to be seen inadvertently, I don't want any questions raised down the line about me presenting myself in any way as a cop, and the mere sight of a badge on my wallet or in my hand (exactly like the CC badges) should not make any initial difference at all to responding units at the scene of a shooting I may be involved in.

A savvy responding cop will imediately put everybody on the ground till things are stabilized, that includes me, and he or she has no way of knowing which side I'm on or if I'm a continuing threat just because I flash a badge that arriving units can't read at a safe approach distance & don't know if I bought off the Internet or found in a Cracker Jack box.

I never accepted a badge at face value myself in such situations & don't expect anybody currently in the Biz to, either.
You got a badge? Assume the prone position with arms spread & we'll work through your ID in a minute.

A badge can also easily work against you.
Anybody seeing your gun inadvertently is free to make more than one assumption: You're a good guy, you're a bad guy, you're a cop. Enough ambiguity not to require action against you.
Anybody seeing your badge inadvertently will likely make only one assumption:
You're a cop. No ambiguity, if you're among people who dislike cops, you may have a problem.

If you're in the wrong neighborhood or among the wrong crowd, that may not be healthy.

Another area of concern is if you're standing in line at a convenience store (or wherever) when an armed robbery begins.
If the bad guys take the time to hit individual customers while they're there (it does happen), seeing a shiny badge on your belt while your shirt slips aside as you pull your wallet can get you killed right there.
Or, if the ditzy customer standing next to you happens to see your badge accidentally glimpsed & yells "YOU'RE A COP, DO SOMETHING!", you've just lost your ability to decide whether or not you should engage or just stand there & be a good witness. This is not as far-fetched as it may sound.

Rules in the "city" are different than in a small town, and things like the above need to be considered.

Just my opinion on the matter.
I do not want a badge to be seen on me anywhere at any time nowdays.
I just see no need.
If you feel differently, it's your choice.

I'm moderately proud of my old badge. I have every badge I've ever worn except for one, and I have that retired officer badge.
They all live in the vault, where they get looked at occasionally but never worn.
Denis

 

[bikerdoc]

Seroiusly, a noob opens a thread from 03 and ya'all respond.

 

[DPris]

Blast!
Didn't even look.
Denis

 

[Kleanbore]

This discussion has nothing at all to do with firearms.