You might just be a Mall Ninja if:

[JWarren]

I'm sorry... but Master of Malice's post was funny. Period.


Let's let it go at that.


FourNineFoxTrot, I hear what you are saying, but I don't think he was per se picking on all security guards. I see it more about emulation and characturization.

Listen, I've met a lot of cops who are charicturizations of cops. They're more "Mall Ninja" than most "Mall Ninja's. Master of Malice will probably agree with me when I say that the ones that I've met were usually young, rookie, and enthusiastic cops. It happens.

One of my best friends was that way. When he got on with the local city police, he looked like a joke. He acted worse. But that was years ago. Now, he's a 36 year old highway patrol who is as crusty and jaded as the next guy.


Other industries are no different. I've seen young stockbrokers come in and immediately think they have to have their hair all slicked back like Charlie Sheen in "Wall Street." Nevermind that it hasn't been a "style" in two decades. But they become a "characture" of a stockbroker. And I have been known to laugh my arse off as a result.


Always remember... when you become a characture of something, you become an over-exaggerated image of reality. When I see those charcture paintings, I think they are funny. When I see one walking around, I think that is hilarious.

In short, don't be what they are talking about.


-- John

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

All right, I'm sorry I flew off the handle a bit. You guys are right, it's important to have a sense of humor about this, and I seem to have lost mine for a night.

I still believe most of what I said. Somebody made a point I'd have to agree with, saying that security guards don't really protect people any more than cops do. Mostly, that's true. They try to, but they have all the problems cops have responding in time, plus some extras. And, yeah, the training and standards are pretty bad... but it's slowly getting better. Used to be, in my state, you didn't need any training at all to get a license. Then, it was 8 hours. Now it's 40 hours. Still not a lot, but a little bit better than it used to be.

I'd like if people didn't crap on security guards quite so hard, but what the hell, it's a free country.

And mall ninjas are pretty damn funny. I just hope that folks know we aren't all like that. That's been the crux of every post I've made on this thread: We aren't all like that.

 

[JWarren]

And mall ninjas are pretty damn funny. I just hope that folks know we aren't all like that. That's been the crux of every post I've made on this thread: We aren't all like that.

Yep. I don't think that we are in disagreement there.

-- John

 

[paramedic70002]

Hey 49F, it's OK. I try to stay out of these SG bashfests , and it's been years since I did the job, but it still torques me up.

1. It's a job, like any other. Why must some people put other people down? Usually it's insecurity, jealousy, or inferiority. But sometimes it is just fun. Think SGs poke fun at other SGs? Sure!

2. My job wasn't to protect people, never the less that's what I did from time to time. I had higher standards for myself than my boss or the public had for me. Every job is like that. Even the garbage man can be a slacker or a conscientious worker, going beyond the job description.

3. Somebody mentioned that SGs are just regular people, not LEOs or SWAT. Well guess what, LEOs and SWAT are just regular people too, and I'll put pretty much every other human in the same category besides judges, some preachers, and whoever happens to be the President. Anybody that thinks being an LEO is a dream job should listen in to some of their b***h sessions. Once you get over the "status" and glory, it's a horrible job. Other than $$$, I'd pick SG over LEO 6 out of 7 days a week.

4. Due to a variety of conditions, the perception of SGs is not going to change, stereotypes live forever, even though laws and the industry are trying to move forward. There will always be that one SG that everybody has as a bad example.

5. Fat people, the last unprotected class (although obesity is approaching majority status). Fat SGs, might as well have a target on their shirts. Double whammy for no respect. I've seen a few fat cops, too. So what?

6. LEOs should LOVE SGs. Many of my LEO contacts did. SGs do crap work that keeps LEOs from being so busy dealing with BS.

 

[The Tourist]

You guys seem to be missing the point.

Everyone has to go to school, train as an apprentice and offer his goods and services to the public for his wages.

To use the excuse that mall rent-a-cops must "pay their dues" implies that they will one day transition to being sworn officers.

You have a job. Either go to work, or quit. But if you are conducting yourself and your craft in a fashion that invokes humor then your energies should be focused inward, not to the public.

All people have a need for safety and security. Either provide it, or get out of the way for a trained adult. And frankly, this is where the debate breaks down for me.

The idea of "shopping malls" clustered into a central area goes back to the late 1950's when I was a boy. We are looking at a part of our commerce that is almost fifty years old. If this idea of sales and service is to safely invite the public into their stores, and if security is a factor, then provide it to an effective level.

A guy with a walkie-talkie and a Smokey-the-Bear hat has never been a level of security. Not then, not now.

Get sworn officers, get better security systems and provide an honest level of safety for patrons. But don't waste bandwidth here romaniticizing about your keys and flashlight and seek to draw any parallel to an actual "thin blue line."

 

[hotpig]

Every penny spent on Security above the Insurance saving is pure loss for the business.

We will never see a high level of security in this country unless the American people want to open up their pocket books to pay for it.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

A guy with a walkie-talkie and a Smokey-the-Bear hat has never been a level of security.

Oh, man, I'm jealous: I want a Smokey-the-Bear hat. All I had was a lousy, ill-fitting tan uniform shirt and a mini-maglite. If they gave us Campaign hats, I'd still be working there. Those things are neat.

Tourist, now that I've calmed down a bit, which took a good night's sleep (for once), and the sweaty faux-zen meditation of scrubbing the dishes that have been moldering in my sink for a while, I want to say I'm sorry if I got a bit angry earlier.

Hell, I agree with you that security in its present incarnation usually leaves a lot to be desired. My department at the Indian casino were pretty much just walking radios; my only authority was to "observe and report". There were times when we had to react to emergencies, sometimes going way beyond our authority; I know of more than a few instances were our guys waded into fights to break them up, or restrained violent patrons, even a guy who had just stabbed somebody (and bloodied up one of our blackjack tables). Mostly, though, we were not trained, equipped, or allowed to interfere in real emergencies except to report their existence. And you're right. That isn't good security.

I'd like to see competent, professional security guards, armed and trained and actually useful. Then again, I'd like to see security guards mostly done away with, in favor of letting people carry wherever they want and protect themselves.

I'd also like a Smokey hat... but I guess that's not gonna happen.

 

[bsf]

What made me grin the most was my wife's comment, "I get the fat one..."

Nice.

 

[The Tourist]

Every penny spent on Security above the Insurance saving is pure loss for the business.

Then imagine the cost of a lawsuit.

When my wife and I buy a new truck or a home, we get it insured. This week in Wisconsin we've had some crazy weather and I've had to take a camp-axe to the ice on the stairs to my front door. That's just courtesy and common sense.

A mall is really no different from any other street or shopping area in a city. It has crime, drug dealling, assaults and petty theft.

In other words, this is a place for sworn officers.

So take the situation I provided at the start of this debate. Two rent-a-cops spent time watching me cut a sandwich for my wife, but by entries here in our discussion they would be of no help in a felonious assault.

In fact, in real life they would be a nuissance. If my wife was attacked I'd have to knock the mall guard out of my way to actually do something.

This is a reasonable answer to security for you? Clearly, we can duscuss why modern criminals no longer fear any authority in a separate thread. However, the fact is that the day of a rent-a-cop is over. He's no help in a real fight, and inaction invites a lawsuit by an injured party.

 

[Tony50ae]

I would not say the days of rent a cop are totally over. They must evolve to survive in today's world though. For example at the Army base near where I live the guards at the gate are security guards not MP's or DA(Department of the Army) police anymore. But they are better trained then regular security guards and they are armed. Plus quite a few have been in the military or still are serving in the Guard or Reserves. I have two soldiers in my Guard unit that work full time as armed security at the base.

I belive that is where the future lies. Fully trained and armed security.

 

[The Tourist]

I belive that is where the future lies. Fully trained and armed security.

And I agree.

However, your place of employment would drop them in an instant if they got in the way (or provided the liability) in the manner of mall "cops."

Additionally, their lack of knowledge of the law is just about as unschooled as the average citizen. I've debated members here who are better schooled, better shots and probably in better physical shape than this type of 'security.'

If they possess any value to the shopping public, then let them be granted policing powers by a judge. There is a procedure for this.

Until then, quit pretending, quit acting like enforcement and don't do anything like actually trying to touch someone.

 

[Rokyudai]

Laugh away then...that is funny!

"you might wanna be careful, a man with only one gun might just know how to use it." I laugh every time I see that posted on here.

loop says:

I've got a Pygmy goat that scares me a lot more than one of these critters would. He's got big horns and thinks my crotch is a POA. I'd never shoot my goat, but an aggressive city dude totin' a Desert Eagle...

...I'm cryin' here...visualizing those goats that fall over when you yell at them!

 

[The Tourist]

However, let's make one thing clear here. You don't have to be a jerk in dealing with mall 'security.'

I'd say something like, "I choose not to be arrested at this time, don't touch me, call a real police officer."

They still have to prove probable cause, and my guess is that any LEO who has jurisdiction in a mall has had several dealings with Mr. and Mrs. Fife.

Failing that, remind the rent-a-cop that self-defense is not a crime.

 

[Tom Servo]

I'd also like a Smokey hat... but I guess that's not gonna happen.

Here ya go! I might get one so's I look...distinguished and all. It might look good when I do my Patton routine at work

As open-minded as some of us are, there are still those who stoop to stereotypes. Heck, I run a gun shop, and it galls me to see what people say about us.*

* Of course, in far too many gun shops, the stereotype is far too true

 

[Harvster]

Unfortunately there is always some truth behind stereotypes. People don't remember the young fit security guard. What sticks in peoples' minds is often that one example we've all seen of the elderly 300 pound individual waddling through the mall giving everyone the evil eye with one hand on their issue weapon(flashlight). But, many professions suffer from the same sort of stereotyping and jesting. Even well paid, higher education level jobs are not immune. Ever hear a lawyer joke? So, whatever your job, do it with pride and integrity and who really cares what others may think.

 

[Whatsit]

Be a real ninja - totally freak out!

http://www.realultimatepower.net

Facts:



1. Ninjas are mammals.

2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.

3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

 

[ARKIESTEEL]

TSA is the real jokers

I was in Dallas at the airport with my mom wife and little girl (she was three at the time). Well my wife and mom stopped to get some water and I told them that we would go ahead and get thru the check station. First they would not let me and my little girl come thru together I was simi fine with this. Well I get picked for to be looked over more. I told the lady that I would go with them when my wife came along to take control of my daughter. They didnt like this so they called for back up. I explained to them what was going on and they was not hearing any of this, even went so far as to grab my arm to pull me the way they wanted to go. I set my feet and seen a local cop and asked him to help. He told the TSA folks to remove their hands from me by now my wife comes up and takes my little girl and I go along with the TSA folks to be poked and whatever else they needed to do. I know TSA does a thankless job but they could have used some common sense.

 

[Big Boomer]

tada!

 

[Rokyudai]

Ninjas have one weakness Whatsit....super scary ghost stories.

 

[Ske1etor]

You can't get upset about that. Everybody's job gets made fun of.

I'm a city worker, how much crap do you think I get for that? Everybody sees the public works helpers standing around leaning on shovels. But I'm a carpenter. Nobody sees me outside day in and day out busting my ass on roofs so hot the shingles are smudging when I walk on them or ankle-deep in mud building a fence or soaking wet on a roof in a rainstorm trying to unplug a drain.

At the end of the day, your job should be to provide for yourself and your family and if you do a good job you should take pride in that. You should also know that there are other people in similar employment making your job a punchline.

I feel your pain. Department of Transportation here... I get lumped in with shovel tech's when I tell people I work for the Highway Department. I work in a Lab, testing highway and bridge construction materials and when I'm not at my desk doing paperwork I am out on the road doing field testing.

I still get lumped in with the guy holding up that shovel!

If you can't learn to take a joke in this life you will turn gray and die long before your time.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

And that's not going to happen. You guys don't even scare my wife when she's out with her friends shopping.

If there is a real, true, palpable threat to visitors of a mall, then the owners should employ off-duty sworn officers. At present, the only danger a mall guard is to me is if he blocks my path to safety if real shooting starts.

Then frankly, your wife is an idiot.

There are dip**** security officers out there. Mostly because most companies hire, train and pay poorly. But there are also security officers out there that work for companies that only hire experienced police, military, or long standing armed officers.. train better than any other armed force you are ever likely to encounter.. and pay better than most middle management office jobs.

And how does your wife know the differance?

There are fat slovenly, useless LEOs as much as there are fat slovenly security officers... and on the other end there are ones that are not to be screwed with.

The generic security officer bashing is absurd as the generic leo bashing.

 

[Rachen]

Hi Code Monkey.

Just to let you know, you can say what you want about me, I won't get even the least upset in any way. In fact, I do not get insulted at all. When a man feels insult or feels that he has to insult someone else, it is because he has certain insecurity issues deep within his mind. When one casts aside his insecurities, and realizes that we all share the same planet Earth and that all life in our biosphere is unique, he will come to terms with himself. Just take a look at pictures of Planet Earth taken from outer space. Just seeing that, a little oasis of life in the middle of blackness, should make one cast aside his immaturity and adopt a more philosophical way of perceiving those around him, inanimate or animate. Besides, when I reply to your posts, you are just helping me get closer to my "1000 Posts". Yay! I am already at 400 something.

However, your fellow forumers' impressions of you might decrease bit by bit. After all, the Clintons and their mudslinging tactics are not exactly welcome here.

Please don't lock this thread. I just had to make a little point.

 

[The Tourist]

And how does your wife know the differance?

Oh, I don't know, perhaps thirty years around bikers, both "traditional" and Blue Knights. She can spot a phony at twenty paces.

She knows the law, her rights, she's not afraid to speak up and I've seen her react in ways that spook even me.

But here's the thrust of argument. Mall guards are not the police. They don't do the same training. They don't have the same privileges under law. In fact, I doubt that any of them have ever cracked a law book or bothered to go to any seminars.

As a previous posters points out, they hang around and talk to the real police. The schmooze, they use "cop jargon" and probably the biggest bunch of wannabees I've ever seen.

If law enforcement is your desire, then go to class at your local college or join the army.

Just don't give us that "thin blue line" hokus-pokus and relate war stories.

 

[kd7nqb]

I am a security officer in Portland and I have to say I LOVE mall ninja jokes. Frankly they would not be funny if they were not true. There is at least a 10% rate of "mall ninja" in my industry.

Oddly enough (and for the good of society) the guys that are 100% tacticool all the time are NOT the ones who make it through the process to become LEO's those of us actually going through the LEO hiring process very much laugh at the guys who feel they need every piece of equipment in the galls catalog to "Defend" the broken garage door they are posted at.

Most of the security bash fests are because of this small group of morons who like to ruin the fun for the rest of us.

Also I would like to mention that most of they guys who think they are tacticool are regulalry put to shame when we go to the range for run. A "buddy" of mine kept running his mouth about how with his kimber 1911 he was essentially the greatest shot ever. Well I went to the range with him, I beat him with his own kimber then I beat him with my "Tupperware" M&P. Needless to say his ego stayed in check for a brief moment.

 

[The Tourist]

LEO's those of us actually going through the LEO hiring process

Good luck to you, I hope you make it. Be safe.