your own dogs are loose and rushing someone armed, what do you do?

[yy]

The shot dog-walker thread on general got me thinking, and I want your inputs too

Your own unleashed dog (nevermind how the unleash happened) or dogs are rushing a stranger. The guy feels threatened and pulls a pistol in self defense. You don't have enough time to assure the guy that the dogs are friendly.

How many of us would run up and try to control/yank the dogs? Are we going to get shot for this?

 

[444]

I didn't read the other thread, but if my dog was going after someone I would make every effort to stop him even if the other person had a gun. This of course is assuming that the other person is not a threat to me which caused my dog's actions.
My motivation would be three fold. #1: My dog will kill the person he was going after if he considered him a threat. I would be amazed if any handgun round would stop my dog before he killed the guy. And once the guy shot him, there would be no turning him back. #2: I love my dog and would put myself in harms way to protect him. To many, a dog is not worthy of this but I like my dog far more than I like 99% of people. #3: I would be hoping that if I could prevent the dog from gettting to the other person that I could avoid being sued.

 

[joab]

If it is my wimpy Beagle, he's running up to get petted and telegraphing his good intentions. If somebody draws on him and subsequently on me, well I'll just call it self defense.
If it was one of the other dogs I have owned I would hope his first shot is good cause the dog would not give him a second and then I would have a hell of a lawsuit on my hands due to my lack of due care.
That's why I don't own that type of dog anymore

 

[Jim March]

There's really just four keys:

1) DON'T GET MAD. This is a no-brainer but it's impossible for some people.

2) Call your dogs off and to your side verbally; do this while getting them under control.

3) Calmly reassure the other party that they won't bite and make it obvious you're getting them under control. Apologize for scaring him.

4) Keep your own hands open in plain sight, and make no threatening moves of your own.

It's really that easy, folks.

 

[Jim March]

Another related issue: how do you tell whether or not a dog bounding up to you is a threat, or playful?

My take: watch his tongue. If it's out and flapping in the breeze, he doesn't think he'll be doing any chomping. The tongue is out for body cooling purposes...this isn't 100% accurate in very cold weather but any other time it's a key indicator.

It's more accurate than the tail - some dogs are HAPPY they're gonna be grubbin' down on your butt .

 

[Tom Servo]

Luckily, most gun-owners I've known are dog people, and dog people just KNOW the difference. Mine are on the large size, but on the odd chance they get loose and charge, well...it's pretty obvious that they're friendly.

That said, they're my kids, and just as important to me as most human beings, so I'd probably put my life in peril for them without a thought.

 

[sendec]

We are responsible for our dog's actions as much as ours. I love my dog, but if I screw up and he gets ahold of somebody who shoots him, the fault is mine. My dog is extremely protective and capable of causing great damage, but this seems to be instinctual for him. We adopted him - he was a rescued dog, but there was nothing about his background that seems unusual. He just wants to eat anyone who comes to my house, until he is properly introduced.

As much as his heart may be inthe right place, and as much as I love him, if I cannot control him and someone can only protect themselves by shooting him the responsibilty lies with me. I will not sleep for years, and I'll never find another dog as good.

Point of info- he is never off lead in public and is not allowed to run free, as much for his safety as anything. Only if I am with him and no one else is around will I take him off the leash for toss and tug of war.

 

[BenW]

Well here's something to throw into the mix: what if it's on your private (versus public) property? My folks own some farmland, and I walk my dog on it a lot when I'm up there. Other people do to. My parents and their neighbors mostly don't enforce "no trespassing" when it comes to them or their neighbors walking their dogs on each others land.

So what if you're walking your dog on your property and they get out of control and go after someone who happens to be crossing your property? What if you're crossing someone's private property and their dogs come after you? Do you have the right to shoot them when they're unleashed on their own property?

Personally, I would make shooting my absolute last resort no matter where I was. I've always had pretty good luck yelling, brandishing a stick, or throwing rocks if the dog coming up to me was not doing so to be petted. I'd also be pretty mad if someone shot my dog while she was unleashed on my property.

 

[Ankeny]

I have owned a lot of hunting dogs in my life, most were water dogs, Labs and Chessies. Those animales were well trained retrievers and to the best of my knowledge they never even assumed a threatening posture towards another human being. If one of them did flip out and actually make a run at another person, I wouldn't blame them one bit if they shot the dog. In fact, if any of my dogs actually attacked someone, even in my own yard, I would dispose of the animal myself. The only exception would be if the animal was coming to my defense.

I know some folks keep dogs for protection and as watch dogs. People who own breeds with fearsome reputations like a Rott, Doberman, Pit, etc. need to know that folks who carry will elevate their situational awareness if the dog threatens them. If your dog attacks an armed person, you need to expect the dog to get shot. Afterall, that's why people carry guns.

 

[Tall Man]

If one of them did flip out and actually make a run at another person, I wouldn't blame them one bit if they shot the dog. In fact, if any of my dogs actually attacked someone, even in my own yard, I would dispose of the animal myself. The only exception would be if the animal was coming to my defense.

Good response.

If your dog attacks an armed person, you need to expect the dog to get shot. Afterall, that's why people carry guns.

Great response.


Your pet is not a child. It is not a team member. It is an animal. It does not have the cognitive ability to reason things out.

I don't care if you prefer the company of ol' Roy to the company of a fellow human. I do care about my well-being, and I will act to preserve the same. If your furry "partner" decides to compromise my health or my autonomy, well....


Restrain.
Your.
Animals.

TM

 

[TallPine]

If my unleashed dogs are attacking somebody, it probably means said person(s) are on my property.

They might have more to worry about when I show up ....

 

[rbrowning]

I would make an effort to get my dog's under control, regardless of who owns the property. But I would try to do it in a non-threatening manner and not make a move toward the gun holder but toward the dog. If the dog is between the two of you walk so that you are going off to one side of the dog, this takes you out of the line of fire and it shows that you are not going toward the man with the gun. Remember that he is under a great deal of stress and has the power of life and death (your's and the dog's) in his hands. Keep calling to the dog. Keep your arms out to the side, visable, palms exposed so he can see you are not carrying anything.

When you are working with an unknown dog you have to be wary. In the other story the dogs were from a shelter which compounds the peril. We have worked with rescue dogs for several years and we got a few surprises. We never took a dog that was a known biter, but we still had a dog bite our nephew in the head and neck. This was a dog we had fostered for three weeks doing an evaluation before adopting him out.

Some folks say that dogs only do what they are programmed to do by instinct. This is partly true, but dogs also learn from their experiences, if not they could never be trained. The problem is that some dogs have had a pretty rough life and you don't know howthey will react to certain stimulus. Then it can be too late. That is why you never take an unknown dog off leash. You are totaly out of control at that point.

 

[444]

If this situation occurs on my own property (and the territory of my dog) then it is a different ballgame.
First of all, if you are on my property, you are uninvited. You have no business being there. My dog is a team member: one of his primary jobs is the protection of me and my property. If you are on my property and my dog comes after you (which he will) he is doing his job. He is doing the job I want him to do, and he is doing the job he has been bred to do for hundreds of years. If you then produce a gun and shoot my dog, I MUST assume that you are a threat not only to my dog, but also to me. I consider my dog to be my first line of defense but if I am home, I am his back-up. In other words, the dog is only one of your problems.
I have actually had to test this whole senario out: twice. One was a home invasion and the other was a break-in of my pick-up truck. Both times the dog handled the situation more than adequately.
If you come on my property, don't worry about me restraining my dog: he lives here. You better worry about restraining yourself from trespassing: or, you will regret it.

All that being said, my dog is seldom outside although when he is, he is unrestrained. I am watching him the whole time which amounts to maybe twenty minutes a day spread out over two sessions. And my dog will break off a full charge on my command. Again, I have tested this in more than one real situation. My dog also will not leave my yard. When I moved here I took the dog out every day and walked him on a leash around my property line. When he was off-leash I scolded him whenever he thought about going off my property. Now, for the last 4-5 years, he has never left the yard (2 1/2 acres).

 

[jacketch]

Restrain.
Your.
Animals.

Exactly!

It is the owners responsibility to have the animals under control at all times. If they will not respond immediately, every time to verbal commands then they should be leashed.

Restrain.
Your.
Animals.

 

[CannibalCrowley]

So far the responses have seemed good to me, except for some of the "on my land" ones where people believe that they shouldn't have to restrain their animals from attacking visitors or trespassers. In your locality is it legal to use deadly force on a trespasser without warning? Also, if the "event" happened in the vicinity of your home, one must take into account that many localities take the view that it's your responsibility to provide safe passage for someone to your door.

Like many I was also unaware of this, but CourtTV showed me otherwise. They had a case about a Michigan man who went to his neighbor's house to discuss some issues they'd been having. While en route to the door he was attacked by the neighbor's dog. The neighbor was held liable because he had failed to provide "safe passage" for visitors. I know that some may be taken aback by this, but it's necessary. The man could have just as easily been a deliveryman or a meter reader.

 

[jptsr1]

If you let your dog loose off of your property you take what you get.

J.

 

[TallPine]

Cannibal, when you visit people around this part of the country, you STAY IN YOUR CAR until someone comes out from the house to restrain the dogs.

Besides, if someone comes onto my property and starts shooting my dogs, I will assume they are Federal Agents and act accordingly ....

 

[FlyinGN]

Thats why there is a leash law. Its your responisbility to make sure sure your dog is on it.. If I was rushed, the dog will die..

 

[Ankeny]

I suppose laws vary from state to state. Around here, the side walk leading to my front porch is an open invitation to visitors and I do need to provide safe passage.

In some parts of the country we have some folks who operate out of the mainstream of society. Such folks seem to think a bit differently. In my view, the crack pots and weirdos are a whole lot more dangerous than their canine companions.

 

[another okie]

Dogs, like teenagers, always have a pack leader. If it's you, then they behave. If they get away from you and form a new pack with some other dogs, they're going to do things you never thought they could. If more dog owners understood that life would go much easier. I live in the country and I see nice pet dogs forming packs and going after calves on a regular basis. (I also see nice teenage boys from good families drinking, speeding, and harassing people when three of them get together.)

 

[dshimm]

Hmmm. Since I've got a couple of pretty mellow chihuahuas, anybody who draws on them has got some serious issues.

 

[444]

"Around here, the side walk leading to my front porch is an open invitation to visitors and I do need to provide safe passage."

I have no sidewalk leading to my door. Nor do I have a sidewalk anywhere on the street in front of my house. Nor is there a sidewalk within five miles of my house.
Meter readers: I only have one meter: electricity. I have no natural gas. I have a well for water and a septic tank for sewer. The electric meter is read through some kind of optical system that doesn't require them to get out of the car. They point some kind of device at my meter and it reads it. They don't come on my property to read the meter. They sit in their car on the road.
I live in a rural area, or at least it was when I moved there. My lot was on a dirt road. There were no public untilities (I had to bring the power in). I was the only house for a mile in all directions.
I work 70 miles away from where I live. Most of the people I know live 70 or more miles away. The few people that I do know in the town I live in have the manners to call and see if I am home before they stop by (I usually work 72 hours a week and am often asleep when I am home).
I own just shy of four acres and my home sits in the middle of it. The street is about 50 yards from my house.
Long story even longer: no one has any business being on my property. In the whole time I have lived there (about five years) I had ONE person come to my door unanounced and had one person come in my yard while I was outside. Dog did take an aggressive stance towards the guy that walked into my yard, but he didn't go after him. Ironically, the guy that came into my yard noticed my Rottweiler and wanted to talk about Rottweilers.

 

[TallPine]

444, you must be another "crackpot" or "weirdo" like me ...

Heck, my narrow and muddy drive is about 1/8 mile long. And I am one of the few in the area that is actually on the gravel county road. Many places are a couple miles back in (better lock in the hubs if it is raining).

 

[Ryder]

To whom it concerns

You're welcome to kill my dog if it gets away from me and needlessly threatens you. I'll take the blame, learn from my mistake, and think twice before I buy another one. It's my bad and your safety is more important than that of any animal.

Won't happen though since I do assume the responsibility for her safety. If the dog has a good reason to be attacking you then you've got a lot more than just a dog bite to worry about.

I've faced down several mean dogs. Given time to think about it they've always backed down. If I ever do feel the need to shoot one it will happen without any prior consideration for what the worthless owner or some faceless society might desire.

 

[444]

"444, you must be another "crackpot" or "weirdo" like me "
Right, it's you and me brother.

The name calling is always appreciated. And, it is always tolorated as long as you don't call the fine people killing our troops and performing acts of terrorism names: that would result in immediate expulsion from this board. As long as it is just little old me, feel free to continue.