25-06 beats 6.5 creedmoor

[LoonWulf]

When you really think about it this argument is rather silly. A 25-06 was always intended to be a hunting cartridge to be used in hunting rifles that were accurate and effective out to at least 500 yards. The rifles usually weigh about 8 1/2 pounds with normal hunting scopes. These hunting rifles cannot be compared to true long range rifles in 6 mm or 6.5 mm that weigh 12 pounds, have a custom barrel, and a scope that costs $3,500, and are only fired using a bipod. Why would you even want to compare the performance of a $900 rifle and scope to a $6,000 competition rifle? Also, the argument that there are no good long range 25 caliber bullets is pretty close to being dumb. It's not hard to get a 25-06 to shoot minute of angel out to 500 yards. Sierra, Speer and Berger all make bullets that will do it when matched up with good cases and powders like IMR 4831, Reloader 17, 22 and 25. Shooters who own a 25-06 don't need to rush out and buy a 6.5 mm rifle just because someone says there are no good 25 caliber long range bullets.

For hunting 500yds IS long range IMO. Again I have little issue with folks shooting farther with correct gear, practice, and confidence, BUT for a good many of us anything beyond MPBR is probably edging our limits, and for others MPBR is probably too far. 25-06 offers plenty range and power for most of us, so does any common round from .243 on up, use what u like within your comfort zone.

But for a lot of target and competition guys 500s just where its starting to get fun. At longer ranges, BC starts to matter more, and more, wind drift becomes even more of an issue.
Take the plots that weve talked about for the 115bergers, which are the highest BC .257s generally available, and compare them to any of the heavy for cal, high bc bullets available to the 6.5s, or even the 6mms.
The .257s need an extra 300fps to stay with the 6.5s out to 500, and begin losing ground after that. I didnt get to shoot my 6.5CM or my .250 much past 400ish yds, and nothing official just plinking at rocks, but i HAVE shot my 7Mag, and .300s out to over 800yds.
My 7s have universally shot 162Amax, 160TMKs, or 168 Berger VLDs, with bcs in the 600s. My .300s were shot mostly with 168grn VLDs, or 180grn Balistic tips, with some random 125s tossed in for good measure. BCs of the 30s ran probably from about 480-500 i THINK cant remeber, but if memory serves they are pretty close to that.
1st round hits for me outside of 400-450yds are rare, but once ive got the drop figgured landing rounds on target was alot easier with the 7s than it was with the 300s. To be fair i DO also shoot the 7s better than the .300s, but the random...wow that got blown farther than i expected didnt happen as often with the 7s.

 

[RussellC]

When you really think about it this argument is rather silly. A 25-06 was always intended to be a hunting cartridge to be used in hunting rifles that were accurate and effective out to at least 500 yards. The rifles usually weigh about 8 1/2 pounds with normal hunting scopes. These hunting rifles cannot be compared to true long range rifles in 6 mm or 6.5 mm that weigh 12 pounds, have a custom barrel, and a scope that costs $3,500, and are only fired using a bipod. Why would you even want to compare the performance of a $900 rifle and scope to a $6,000 competition rifle? Also, the argument that there are no good long range 25 caliber bullets is pretty close to being dumb. It's not hard to get a 25-06 to shoot minute of angel out to 500 yards. Sierra, Speer and Berger all make bullets that will do it when matched up with good cases and powders like IMR 4831, Reloader 17, 22 and 25. Shooters who own a 25-06 don't need to rush out and buy a 6.5 mm rifle just because someone says there are no good 25 caliber long range bullets.

I wasnt comparing them, just asked if anyone used them in competition. If they did, wouldnt it be safe to say they would be decked out similarly? Surely they would, so I guess I miss your point in that regard.

Russellc

 

[LoonWulf]

Also just for reference there IS the 108JLK with a bc of .5, which ive considered for my .250AI, but dont have yet.

 

[wbm]

All the more reason to buy an old, old Savage M110, and do your own re-barreling.

Oh yeah!

 

[joed]

I've owned a .25-06 for over 40 years, it always served me well for my purposes. It's a great hunting rifle for open country for game as large as deer and I wouldn't be hesitant to shoot at Elk at closer range.

Never considered getting rid of this rifle even though I have a few other cartridges to choose from. It is my favorite hands down.

We all have our favorites and I think that's great. It's not about what will outshoot something else, it's what works for you.

 

[Gordon]

I am old, back in the dim day I went into an old LGS that burned up in the 70s, and saw in the corner (because it was too massive to fit in racks) a bull barrel heavy bench gun with a big 20x Unertl on it and a 1/4" hole in the end of the massive barrel. It had simple Parque inlay on stock reading "by Bibby" and .258 Super Condor stamped in scroll on the barrel. Turned out it was a 1-7 twist Improved .308 Norma case necked to .257 and there was a good supply of 160 and a few 200 grain spitzers and cases and some reloaded rounds for it. It was from the estate of a deceased Dr Ramon Samovia of Hollister Ca. (nearby) and he was into quick twist .25 cal rifles which he called "Condors" . I had to have it and the old owner of the oldest gunshop in Salinas sold it . dies and ammo and a case for the Unertl to me for $700 way back when $700 and a 30-06 fixed most problems The loaded rounds did group pretty good and seemed warm but the modified 1917 Enfield action seemed happy. I fooled with that rifle and actualkly shot a few coyotes from a pickup bed over 20 years and when I ran out of bullets so did my interest and strength in a 35 pound rifle. I sold it about 10 years back. I believe THAT was the king of long range quarterbores , never again to be challenged.

 

[LoonWulf]

Turned out it was a 1-7 twist Improved .308 Norma case necked to .257 and there was a good supply of 160 and a few 200 grain spitzers

Those things must have looked like pencils.....

 

[Gordon]

Those things must have looked like pencils.....

http://www.ammo-one.com/257Condor.html

 

[Gordon]

I think the ".258 super condor" is the earlier " .257 Condor"version but with the .258" long leade (like a Weatherby Mark V) Timken steel barrel and my barrel was marked "Timken SPS"

 

[Geno]

Double-radius like Weatherby. Interesting cartridge!

Geno

 

[MachIVshooter]

What a stupid article.

Different tools for different jobs. If you want a lightweight sporter for hunting predators and medium or large game, the .25-06 is a fantastic choice. If you want a medium weight precision rifle for 600-1000 yard target work, not a lot of options in that chambering. The opposite also largely holds true, although we're starting to see sporters in 6.5 Creed.

Personally, given a choice between 6.5 & .25-06 in the same rifle for hunting, I'd take the .25-06. That's due in part to the potential with larger case capacity, and also that the focus on .257" caliber pills has always been on terminal performance in game animals, as opposed to long range precision for many (most) of the .264" offerings. .264 caliber has never enjoyed as much following in the hunting world here in the states as .244, .257, .277, .284 and .308, and the bullet market reflects this. So does load data; tons of info out there for fast, accurate loads with hunting bullets of all flavors from 75 to 120 gr. in .25-06, while 6.5 Creed data is, once again, geared toward target/PRS.

Conversely, for precision work, despite my love for the quarterbore, and the fact that I know what my 700 BDL is capable of at long hunting ranges, I'd choose a 6.5mm, 7mm or .30 cal for that.

 

[.308 Norma]

Different tools for different jobs.

I'll second that!