Ammo contracts and political correctness

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Malice

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
370
Location
San Antonio, Houston, depending on my mood
My brother just called me and told me about this, he said one of the Houston radio station DJs announced it over the air and thought it was ridiculous.

Apparently the DoD gave out 2 contracts for small arms ammunition, one to Winchester and one to Israeli Military Industries. But now congress forbidden the army to use any of the bullets made in Israel against Muslim soldiers in the middle east.

(It just occured to me that this might be old news... or a hoax?)
 
Isn't the Winchester made in Israel? I knoow the most recent 55 grain Winchester "White Box" that I saw was made over there.
 
how would the muslims know if the head stamp is not imi? The q3131a (imi produced) ammo i've seen had winchester stamps on em? Besides, i think the irony of killing jihadists with imi ammo is rich :neener:
 
I heard that the DOD is buying ammo from the Israelis, but I hadn't heard that they couldn't use it in Iraq. It seems like it would make a lot of sense to use the ammo made in Israel in Iraq since they are so close.
 
Sometimes a little sensitivity goes a long way.

Some of you may recall that the brits had a little rebellion (Sepoy rebellion? my memory fails me) in India over the rumor of the use of pig and beef fat in paper cartridges.

If the US was using blatantly Israeli ammo in Iraq, a nation whose psyche is dominated by conspiracy theories and hearsay, how do you think out Iraqi allies would react?
 
I am sure they care a whole lot about the ammunition they use on us and where it comes from. I am also sure they confirm that the rusty blade of the dull machete they use to decapitate their prisoneers is from an allied nation lest it offend someone.

Give me a break.

I say if they want to die for Allah so bad, we should be more than happy to oblige with whatever ammunition is present for the opprotunity.

Besides, Israel should be allowed to do their part in the "War on Terror" too.
 
I'm pretty sure the Iraqi Army is busy NOT killing us. It's not for the benefit of out enemies, but for the trust of out friends.
 
Why would our Iraqi allies care? I am probably out of touch here but I don't understand why it would even be a concern for them as long as we are their allies and our rifles aren't pointed at them.

Do all Muslims hate Jews or just the ones blowing themselves up and cutting off people's heads? This is a serious question by the way, and in no way intended to be racist or anti-Semetic.
 
sturmruger I heard that the DOD is buying ammo from the Israelis, but I hadn't heard that they couldn't use it in Iraq. It seems like it would make a lot of sense to use the ammo made in Israel in Iraq since they are so close.
Click to expand...

Yeah right they'd probably ship it back to the USA first then ship it to iraq. You're talking about the government here.
 
Why would you risk losing what has been gained to save on shipping costs?

Do you really think that Muslims being shot with Israeli bullets won't be a problem for our Muslim, anti-Zioninst allies in Iraq?

Go here and read about what happens when occupiers aren't culturally sensitive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Mutiny

You had a country, India, that was under a lot of cultural stress. Then the brits intoduced new ammo, that may not have been hallal. That was enough of a flashpoint to start a heck of a war.
 
Last edited:
There were a lot of anti-semites in the Arab world in the days before WWII and during the war many allied divisions were tied down in the Middle East to keep many of these Arab leaders from coming into the war on the side of the Nazis. These same leaders worked with the Nazis to keep European Jews from relocating to the Middle East to escape the holocaust. Volunteer units from the area served in the SS.

In 1948 when the state of Israel was created by vote of the United Nations, the Arab world was outraged. They felt that their land was stolen from them. War immediately broke out. There has been a constant war ever since. In the minds of many Arab and Persian people, Israel has no right to exist and they still formally call for it's destruction.

NOw add the Global War on Terror into the mix. The Islamic extremists have a vision of re-establishing the Grand Caliphate (sp?) where Islam rules the known world. They tell the people that the Great Satan (us) is aligned with Israel to take more of the Arab world from them.

For our soldiers to use Israeli made ammunition would be the proof they would need to take their radical message of hate of all things not Islam mainstream. The governments of Islamic nations who are working with us in the GWOT would be hard pressed to stay in power. Hate of Israel is one of the universal truths among the people of the region. It would be a big setback for us to publically accept any assistance from Israel. The governemnts that are assisting us, would no longer be able to do so and remain in power. It would almost surely be enough to cause an overthrow of the Pakistani government and it could possibly be the downfall of the governments of Jordan, Kuwait and the UAE. It could unite the Arab world against us.

Should we take that chance for shorter supply lines?

Jeff
 
Use a benign headstamp. Put the NATO crosshair thingy on it.

Then be quiet about it. Our government, good or bad, is allied with Israel, and quite responsible for keeping it from being wiped off the map by those who would destroy it. No secret about that. However, we've been doing the covert ammo thing since my dad bought me some sterile 7.62x39 ammo in the early 70's, made by none other than one of the Army (Olin Corporation) ammunition plants he worked for. I never gave it much thought as a kid, until a couple decades later, when I bought some Winchester (Olin) white box 7.62x39, and noticed an uncanny resemblance to some other 7.62x39 rounds I had from a long time before...
 
That was the 70s. This is 2005. There are no more secrets. Anything involving the transfer of cash can and will be ferreted out.
 
The Yugoslavians have made "washed" export and clandestine ammo in the past. The would omit (at a minimum) the manufacturer code. I happen to have some in 7.62x39.
 
There's still a lot of secrets out there, Owen.

That was the 70s. This is 2005. There are no more secrets. Anything involving the transfer of cash can and will be ferreted out.
Click to expand...

Including the secret that happened last January 1st. The year rolled over to 2006.


And as for denial and deception with respect to ammo contracts or anything else government-directed, be afraid. Be very afraid. That which was finally made public by way of being "ferreted out" is but a drop in the proverbial bucket. For a different perspective, simply obtain a TS/SCI clearance, and get read into a given program for $hits and giggles. Of course, you'll have to sign a 75-year non-disclosure agreement, and agree not to publish, unless you're a senate staffer trying to one-up the next senate staffer with a juicy SIGINT/MASINT/HUMINT/COMINT/IMINT/ELINT leak... ;)
 
I believe that the Israeli ammo in question has the Star of David headstamp, I believe other headstamps are okay to use.
 
The Yugoslavians have made "washed" export and clandestine ammo in the past. The would omit (at a minimum) the manufacturer code. I happen to have some in 7.62x39.
Click to expand...

Yea, when I was in the former Yugoslavian republics, I saw plenty of examples. Sterile (no markings) AK's of any make or model ya wanted. One gentleman I had a couple drinks with claimed he could make me as many weapons of any kind and forged markings I wanted. I didn't ask about ammo, but I'm sure it wouldn't have been a stretch.

Most of the equipment is in Serbia now, but apparently the Croatians have some too. More than likely, a lot of it is now under the control of various organized crime outfits. Lovely thought, no?
 
But now congress forbidden the army to use any of the bullets made in Israel against Muslim soldiers in the middle east.
Click to expand...
B.S. Let's see some documentation. I have not seen this in the Congressional Record. And ... for the record ... Congress doesn't tell the armed forces what ammunition can and cannot use based on the religious sensitivities of our enemies. The main job of our legislature is simply to appropriate funds for the procurement of arms and materiel.

The military was using IMI ammunition for the whole time I spent on active duty (through late '05) ... This ammo is not headstamped with a Star of David, simply "IMI."
 
This is old news.

Consider that we were stupid enough to come up with "Freedom Fries" so I can't think that other people are any better off than us.

Also consider what's been said about being culturally and politically myopic. We have allies that can not resolve their differences with Israel. We can not afford to be stupid and ignore this fact. So WE can not supply, equip, or use material that destroys our relationship with our allies in the Middle East simply because some race haters can't differentiate between Islamist Terrorists and all Muslims.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
Winchester Expects New Hires From Army Contract
Replies
2
Views
1K
Jeff White
J
S
  • Locked
Israel's Military Phases Out The Uzi
Replies
5
Views
610
Wanderer
W
J
  • Locked
Why did only the Israelis get warning of the bombs?
Replies
23
Views
885
middy
M
L
  • Locked
Israel attacking Lebanon
2 3 4
Replies
87
Views
4K
Preacherman
P
R
  • Locked
Army Told Not to Use Israeli Bullets in Iraq
2 3
Replies
51
Views
3K
Zircon
Z
Back
Top