Arm Select school administrators/teachers?

[Isaac-1]

I say also let them use tactical and conflict training for part of their mandated continuing education requirements.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

Teachers are human and therefore fallible. Just this last semester a professor at my daughter's university wigged it stripped to his socks and went into a rant. I would really hate to have had him ccing. On the other hand the university has it's own police force.

I think to let a teacher carry they need more extensive training and evaluation than most get (including myself) for a cpl.

 

[Alabama21]

Remember, the CEO of Frontsite offered to train school teachers and administrators FOR FREE. Every time there is a school shooting this offer has been repeated. The CCW teachers should not be publicly identified, to prevent parents from complaining specifically about any one teacher. The official line from the school district should be: some teachers "may" be carrying CCW. Numbers and names and school locations will not be released.
My wife (a high school teacher) told me that the number one problem with allowing teacher/administrator CCW would be that the parents would "not tolerate it". So don't tell them enough to make specific complaints. "Yes we have a policy of allowing CCW. No we cannot release any specifics, to protect the privacy of teachers and administrators, and the safety of students". The only noticeable difference after a policy like this is initiated, would be the lack and/or limited lethality of any further attacks.
You have to keep in mind that most teachers are not comfortable with firearms. Most people comfortable with guns are blue collar, don't have degrees, many have served in the military. In the course of meeting my wife's coworkers, I have developed a sense that this is a very "sheltered" community. They all have degrees, which sometimes means by default that they chose not to enlist in the military. I don't get the same "feeling" I get from my blue collar friends (I am a mechanic, no college degree).

I will both agree and disagree with you.

Agree: By not letting anyone publically know who may be armed, the school instantly becomes a difficult target (as opposed to an easy target). Even if no one is actually armed in the school, the fact that someone COULD be, I believe is an effective deterrent.

Disagree: I think the exposure to guns comes from growing up with them, and small towns in the country have an advantage to larger cities. Therefore it isn't necessarily a blue collar-white collar bias. This may be modified by geography however. My example is that where I grew up (smaller town) the white collar worker would more likely own guns than the blue collar worker where I live now (big city). This is just a personal observation though and may not be everyone's experience.

 

[ToraBoraBlues]

Another idea, we have tons of retired/former military and police. Why not allow them to guard schools under a auxiliary police/reserve deputy type arrangement?

I don't have the time being active duty and frequently TDY, but if I could I would gladly take a psych eval or whatever training was required and put in a couple days a month at a school.

 

[SleazyRider]

Teachers who elect to undergo training and provide their own firearm should be compensated just like any other extra-curricular activity. They should be deputized and sworn-in just like any other LEO.

 

[481]

I am all for it.

All it takes to deter the vast majority of these cowards is the potential of encountering a gun.

Getting rid of the CPZs (criminal protection zones) in our schools would be a fantastic first step.

 

[jfrey]

Being a teacher myself, I am all for arming some teachers and administrators, but not all of them by any means. First, it should be on a voluntary basis. Second, there are some teachers who I wouldn't want within a mile of a loaded gun. I also think those teachers should supply their own guns. I don't want someone else making pistol selections for me and I might not want to carry the same gun everyday. The names of these folks should be kept very secret for several reasons, including parent complaints and public identity.

The idea has a lot of merit but there will be those liberals who will wet their pants if they think there is someone with a loaded gun in school with THEIR kids.

 

[Alaska444]

Being a teacher myself, I am all for arming some teachers and administrators, but not all of them by any means. First, it should be on a voluntary basis. Second, there are some teachers who I wouldn't want within a mile of a loaded gun. I also think those teachers should supply their own guns. I don't want someone else making pistol selections for me and I might not want to carry the same gun everyday. The names of these folks should be kept very secret for several reasons, including parent complaints and public identity.

The idea has a lot of merit but there will be those liberals who will wet their pants if they think there is someone with a loaded gun in school with THEIR kids.

Very interesting finding, even anti-gun California allows CCW on public school grounds. granted, public schools often times prohibit their employees from carry, but that is a big surprise.

Note: So carry on School property is legal if you have a California Issued Permit/License to Carry. The School can keep Students, Faculty and others who work on campus from carrying and can expel them or fire them for carrying firearms but they are not breaking a law just a rule of the School.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

Simply allowing CCW for teachers and all with lawful permits is enough to start to turn this around. If CA can allow this, it is not an idea that couldn't gain momentum.

 

[Alaska444]

Why are we so fixated on the NRA when they are going off on their own unilateral approach. I just went to GOA and truly like their essay much better on how to approach this. They are focussing on the facts and want to expand CCW rights to include schools and get rid of gun free zones.

So, if Congress really wants to reduce crime and to stop shootings at so-called “gun-free zones” like schools, movie theaters and other places, maybe they ought to pass laws making it easier for citizens -- especially teachers and school administrators -- to get the training they want to be proficient in gun safety and proficient in hitting their target with a concealed handgun.

http://gunowners.org/news12202012.htm

What a breath of fresh air. Instead of a terrible PR campaign start that the NRA has ventured in the last few days, the GOA is spot on in their analysis of how to fight back on this. If I am going to join any gun rights organization, the GOA will be at the top of my list.

 

[tyler500e]

I voted no, because I think rather than arming them, the ban on concealed carry should be lifted allowing those that are interested to arm themselves.

 

[Alaska444]

I voted no, because I think rather than arming them, the ban on concealed carry should be lifted allowing those that are interested to arm themselves.

+1, that is exactly the problem. They created these gun free zones, now the NRA wants armed guards and possibly after the air marshall sort of system. That would just be extending the police state even further.

The place to go is to win the public argument that it is the gun free zones that they created a few decades ago that is the problem. If they get gun control, they win. If they get control and armed guards, they win. If they get armed guards, they win. Either way, we are entering a larger police state and continued gun free zones.

Our ONLY win is to expand CCW rights and allow carry on school campuses the way that they do in Utah AND CA of all places. Gun free zones are at the heart of these killings and they are just manipulating us into the corner that they want to go anyway. Sorry, but they have their agenda and lots of paths to get there. We only have one path, get rid of gun free zones and expand CCW rights.

 

[Mr.510]

Like a lot of people I think we should eliminate all the idiotic "Gun Free Zones". Then allow all school staff that wish to and are able to obtain a CCW permit to carry their own weapon should they choose to. *Nobody* needs to know, or should know, who carries and who doesn't or who has a permit and who doesn't. That's one of the great things about CCW, it is a deterrent to all violent criminals because they have no idea who's a helpless victim and who's packing heat. Everyone with a permit should be able to carry a concealed weapon on school grounds. To say that teachers need some form of special training in order to safely CCW in a classroom full of kids is idiotic. They are people just like you and I and they should have the same right to defend themselves and those they care about no matter where they are.

I live in a "shall issue" state, if you pass the background check you get a CPL in Washington. No training of any kind is required to obtain a permit here and I have no problem with teachers or any other school staff getting a permit and carrying a handgun just like I do.

...shall not be infringed!

 

[Alaska444]

Like a lot of people I think we should eliminate all the idiotic "Gun Free Zones". Then allow all school staff that wish to and are able to obtain a CCW permit to carry their own weapon should they choose to. *Nobody* needs to know, or should know, who carries and who doesn't or who has a permit and who doesn't. That's one of the great things about CCW, it is a deterrent to all violent criminals because they have no idea who's a helpless victim and who's packing heat. Everyone with a permit should be able to carry a concealed weapon on school grounds. To say that teachers need some form of special training in order to safely CCW in a classroom full of kids is idiotic. They are people just like you and I and they should have the same right to defend themselves and those they care about no matter where they are.

I live in a "shall issue" state, if you pass the background check you get a CPL in Washington. No training of any kind is required to obtain a permit here and I have no problem with teachers or any other school staff getting a permit and carrying a handgun just like I do.

...shall not be infringed!

Yes, that is exactly as it SHOULD be, but we have politicians that no longer do the will of the people, either party. They plan their moves years in advance and we can only react to what they do.

God help us in this time. They set up gun free zones and then when the violence occurs, they blame it on law abiding citizens as an excuse to take away our gun rights. As more and more of the public falls under their spell, little by little they gain the momentum. Without the mercy of the Lord, the future of gun rights is bleak and all of our futures are bleak.

 

[Alaska444]

Looks like Ron Paul is very much opposed to armed guards through a TSA type of agency. He does have some very great ideas, don't agree with his foreign policy, but he is right on this issue in my opinion.

Retiring Republican Rep. Ron Paul pushed back Monday against the National Rifle Association's call for installing armed officers in every school, warning that the move could create a TSA-style maze of checkpoints and surveillance cameras -- with limited effect.

"School shootings, no matter how horrific, do not justify creating an Orwellian surveillance state in America," Paul said in a written statement.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...n-for-officers-in-every-school/#ixzz2G3o1LQAs

He goes on to state we should allow the private citizens to have guns to deter crimes like this.

 

[Safety First]

I voted no, because I think rather than arming them, the ban on concealed carry should be lifted allowing those that are interested to arm themselves.

Individual CCW is a separate issue from the question in the poll. The poll is simpy asking should Administrators and teachers be armed, not which is better.

 

[Alaska444]

Individual CCW is a separate issue from the question in the poll. The poll is simpy asking should Administrators and teachers be armed, not which is better.

With all due respect, are any polls really "simple?"

He participated, stated no and gave his reason for that no answer just as have all the other people given a reason for their yes answer. If you don't want a discussion, with all due respect, then the poll will lack any meaning since the reasons of a yes or a no answer is really where it is all at.

Have a great day, but why not let someone state why they give a no answer. The more I evaluate the issue of armed guards, the more I believe that it is not getting to the heart of the problem, artificially created gun free zones. Ron Paul is correct, a TSA type of armed school guards is just a bad idea. Utah's approach to CCW in schools and shall issue permit system is truly the answer to eliminating the gun free zones. After all, that is the real issue.

 

[84B20]

Remember, the CEO of Frontsite offered to train school teachers and administrators FOR FREE. Every time there is a school shooting this offer has been repeated. The CCW teachers should not be publicly identified, to prevent parents from complaining specifically about any one teacher. The official line from the school district should be: some teachers "may" be carrying CCW. Numbers and names and school locations will not be released.
My wife (a high school teacher) told me that the number one problem with allowing teacher/administrator CCW would be that the parents would "not tolerate it". So don't tell them enough to make specific complaints. "Yes we have a policy of allowing CCW. No we cannot release any specifics, to protect the privacy of teachers and administrators, and the safety of students". The only noticeable difference after a policy like this is initiated, would be the lack and/or limited lethality of any further attacks.
You have to keep in mind that most teachers are not comfortable with firearms. Most people comfortable with guns are blue collar, don't have degrees, many have served in the military. In the course of meeting my wife's coworkers, I have developed a sense that this is a very "sheltered" community. They all have degrees, which sometimes means by default that they chose not to enlist in the military. I don't get the same "feeling" I get from my blue collar friends (I am a mechanic, no college degree).

It is Front Sight, not Frontsite, and yes he has offered training to teachers and administrators. I have taken seven courses with the school and it would be a great start to get them trained to carry.

 

[9MMare]

I think this is great, for your state, and for your dedication.

I didnt answer the poll because altho I totally support any teachers or other school staff that wish to carry being allowed to, but making it a job requirement? No.

We can barely find enough qualified teachers now. They seem to barely get their jobs of educating done now. They dont have enough $$ to get the kids what they need to educate them now.

Fed, state, or local....requiring teachers to be trained and remain up-to-date requires $$ for that training and guns.

So IMO, no more tax $$ and no more govt control (requirements for teachers/guns).

For perspective, school districts should look at the frequency of these events and plan accordingly. Some schools have armed security, even cops, now Are they a deterrant? Do we know? Do guards keep banks from being robbed? They dont even keep them out of courthouses. Mentally ill, untrained man took in a knife, stabbed the armed cop inside the courthouse and took her gun and shot some people. Here, in SW WA St. Luckily no one died.

There is no sure way to stop these nuts. And because so many plan these things out...they'll just add dealing with armed cops into their plans. All the more 'glorification' to add to their 'legend.' *how sad*.

Edit: I was responding to this post:

Before this last week I had been looking into becoming a reserve deputy with the sheriffs office so I could use the LEO exemption to carry while teaching. A bill is going to be introduced in my state (TN) to allow teachers to carry/trained. I believe the details are still being hammered out.

 

[9MMare]

All it takes to deter the vast majority of these cowards is the potential of encountering a gun.

.

I disagree with this, respectfully. They expect the element of surprise and to do damage to get that last pathetic high but most expect to die as well.

 

[Alaska444]

I disagree with this, respectfully. They expect the element of surprise and to do damage to get that last pathetic high but most expect to die as well.

Actually, the Virginia tech shooter committed suicide as soon as he knew the police were closing in on him. This latest creep committed suicide when the cops entered the building, likewise with the Columbine creeps and the creep in the OR mall a few weeks ago.

That does in fact appear to be one of the common themes of many but not all of them. The Norway shooter surrendered without a shootout with police as well. You can disagree with me all you want, but the facts speak for themselves.

 

[Warp]

No.

"We" should not "arm" anybody.

We should remove the asinine "gun free school zone" laws that do nothing but aid the violent criminal scumbags by removing armed opposition.

If individual cities/townships/schools want to institute a program that helps those who wish to be armed become proficient with their firearms and have some kid of a plan about what to do, yes, absolutely, they should do so and the NRA seems ready, willing, and able to help them

 

[9MMare]

Actually, the Virginia tech shooter committed suicide as soon as he knew the police were closing in on him. This latest creep committed suicide when the cops entered the building, likewise with the Columbine creeps and the creep in the OR mall a few weeks ago.

That does in fact appear to be one of the common themes of many but not all of them. The Norway shooter surrendered without a shootout with police as well. You can disagree with me all you want, but the facts speak for themselves.

LOLOLOL

Exactly how did you disagree?

 

[Alaska444]

No.

"We" should not "arm" anybody.

We should remove the asinine "gun free school zone" laws that do nothing but aid the violent criminal scumbags by removing armed opposition.

If individual cities/townships/schools want to institute a program that helps those who wish to be armed become proficient with their firearms and have some kid of a plan about what to do, yes, absolutely, they should do so and the NRA seems ready, willing, and able to help them

+1, that is the message we should send absolutely. Get rid of gun free zones and ALLOW, but not ARM the teachers to carry if they should choose to do so. You don't need but a select few to do so in a safe and secure manner. That is the problem and the solution in one package.