Teachers in Texas schools are already armed / School Marshals

[dogtown tom]

No one is expecting teachers to be an, "armed personal security expert/LE officer."

When PabloJ writes: "...Teaching and providing security against armed intrusion for same pay as just for teaching is stupid.." SOMEONE is expecting that.

What is being asked for is that teachers, who are already allowed to carry outside of work, after reasonable, appropriate, and accessible training be permitted to carry, if they choose t carry, as they go about their normal duties.

And that's WRONG. If all it takes for any other Texas resident to carry a firearm openly or concealed is to meet the requirements of state law .............then that should be just as good for a Texas teacher.

 

[dogtown tom]

I heard from a news source that I thought at the time was probably credible that one in five or 20% of Texas schools have some form of armed teachers or administrators.

Edited to add: I found this < http://www.caller.com/story/news/ed...stricts-allow-teachers-staff-armed/364677002/ >

I said there are 172 Texas schools or 17% of Texas schools.

The article you link to says 172 school DISTRICTS, not schools. And the majority of those districts are in one stoplight towns, if they even have a stoplight.
Those 172 districts in total are probably smaller than mine (55,000 students)

 

[dogtown tom]

A law on the Federal level that would give schools immunity from liability for arming teachers or administrators would be great. I am not holding my breath until this happens either.

That would be the single most helpful thing.
School districts are terrified of the liability.
I would be in favor of immunity from liability for teachers who carry who have gone through extra training.

 

[dogtown tom]

Carry insurance and even Utah's law does nothing for a civil suit. Scenario - teacher has gun concealed on person and a few kids jump him/her, garb the gun and shoot someone - that teacher loses everything one way or another.......

I keep hearing this scenario........about a teacher getting jumped and a student taking away her gun. Good grief. That same argument was used to discourage passage of open carry and concealed carry before that.

That's the Brady Campaign way of inciting fear.

 

[dogtown tom]

Because the average Joe isn't protecting a bunch of other peoples' kids

So now you want to add bodyguard to the job description of "teacher"?

 

[denton]

Hasaf....

The class is co-sponsored by the Weber County Sheriff's Dept. and the Weber School District. (How many states have school districts sponsoring this kind of thing??? Love it here!) The class meets for 4 hours per week, for 7 weeks. Cost is $125. It includes your training for concealed carry, if you don't already have a permit. You will need a handgun larger than .22, and 300 rounds of ammunition. Contact is Lt. Jeff Pledger, xxx 778 6910. You already know the area code.

 

[George P]

So now you want to add bodyguard to the job description of "teacher"?

Nope, as a person who was a teacher the last thing I'd want to be is that.

 

[jamesjames]

I'm a teacher, I have a CCW, and I'm a gunny with lots of training time, developed skills, and concealed carry time. When i hear people who know nothing about guns or concealed carry worry about teachers carrying I have to laugh. If you are carrying concealed right, nobody else knows your'e carrying, so how can it become an issue. Students can't attack you or try to steal what they don't know about. A well concealed firearm disappears and most of the time even the carrier forgets its there. Teachers are not going to pull a gun on a student in a disciplinary dispute. Teachers know how to handle themselves and can use their authority to resolve a disorderly student or or disengage from a confrontation to get assistance. There is never any reason to draw on a student or anybody else except "in the gravest extreme".

When I hear the antis gasp for air and clutch their pearls as they jump to the most ridiculous conclusions about teachers carrying concealed...I have to laugh.

 

[dogtown tom]

I'm a teacher, I have a CCW, and I'm a gunny with lots of training time, developed skills, and concealed carry time. When i hear people who know nothing about guns or concealed carry worry about teachers carrying I have to laugh. If you are carrying concealed right, nobody else knows your'e carrying, so how can it become an issue. Students can't attack you or try to steal what they don't know about. A well concealed firearm disappears and most of the time even the carrier forgets its there. Teachers are not going to pull a gun on a student in a disciplinary dispute. Teachers know how to handle themselves and can use their authority to resolve a disorderly student or or disengage from a confrontation to get assistance. There is never any reason to draw on a student or anybody else except "in the gravest extreme".

When I hear the antis gasp for air and grab their pearls when they jump to the most ridiculous conclusions about teachers carrying concealed...I have to laugh.

This.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

There are plenty of supposed Second Amendment supporters that believe "mandatory extensive traing" should be required for a teacher to carry in a school.

I get your point but I don't consider "supposed Second Amendment supporters" to be 2A supporters at all.

 

[Danoobie]

NOW we're talking. Maybe Florida will follow suit.

 

[BSA1]

The AR-15 is most likely firearm to be carried by those that commit acts of terror on our innocent population. Every time this happens people that enjoy guns loose ground. What part of that do you not get? If nothing is done about this situation I'm going to loose my 2nd Amendment rights.

PabloJ,

You just keep posting absurd comments just to see what sticks and gets the best reaction.

I am trying to figure out why you want to own shotguns for the senseless pleasure of killing defenseless game and animals when meat is readily available in grocery stores.

 

[Hasaf]

. . . AR-15 is overwhelmingly weapon of choice. . .

PabloJ,

You just keep posting absurd comments just to see what sticks and gets the best reaction.

What I find most interesting in PabloJ's statement is that, if my district were to go with allowing a gun locker in the classroom, an AR style rifle is what I would have in it. It would be a vastly better choice than a pistol. . . If I am going to have to run for a gun, I might as well run for something big.

It offers lower wall penetration than even a Pistol Caliber Carbine (lower wall penetration is a good thing in a building with a lot of occupied rooms), it is more accurate. . . I could just go on for a long time. The point is, if I had to take the time to unlock a locker, in a real emergency, I would hope that locker contained an AR style rifle (and a good trauma kit).

 

[LiveLife]

This teacher who grew up without a gun and never owned a gun now supports arming teachers.

At 1:05 minute mark of video, "I would like to not only protect myself but your child and other children if I can. Why stop me from protecting the innocent?"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/utah-teacher-supports-arming-teachers-guns-schools/story?id=53287677

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Interesting. There are approximately 100 school marshalls in the State of Texas. That is enough to put one marshall in about 3/4 of Austin ISD's schools. Obviously, this program needs to grow.

 

[RecoilRob]

The only problem I see with School Marshalls or Deputies roaming the halls is that it would be a terrible job to inflict on someone. Go to the school every day, walk around, sit around...just in case something happens. Even if you paid handsomely I'd imagine you'd have either the slackers of the world applying or a high turnover rate from people being bored out of their minds. Did we just see in Florida that the slackers don't perform well when actually presented with the challenge of doing what it is that they were hired to do?

Teachers are there every day....teaching. They have things to do to keep them occupied and interested and if they also could carry....should the worst happen they would have the chance to defend themselves and others. We'd not expect them to 'run to danger', but if danger presented itself at their doorstep....defend against it.

 

[Hasaf]

Teachers are there every day....teaching. They have things to do to keep them occupied and interested and if they also could carry....should the worst happen they would have the chance to defend themselves and others. We'd not expect them to 'run to danger', but if danger presented itself at their doorstep....defend against it.

I agree, it is about allowing teachers to better secure their room, and protect their students. I wrote this on another forum. I think you can see by the tone that some expect the teachers to try to be some super commandos' playing some scene from Air-Force One instead of locking and covering the door with something that has a bit more stopping power than lego bricks and a stuffed toy rat.

Admit I'm a bit skeptical about arming teachers. Not real sure than some concealed .380 pocket pistol with 6-7 rds. is much a deterrent to someone carrying AR15 and 30 rd. mags in a hallway shootout. Same goes for a larger, harder to conceal full size 1911 or any full size 9, .40. .45 with limited ammo whether 8rds. or 18 rds.. Theory being said teacher would confront the perp in a shootout is a fallacy.

There is no, legitimate plan that involves teachers in hallway shootouts. It might play well in movies; but it does not match reality. The discussion involves teachers being able to secure their room and prevent armed entry.

The current doctrine is that the teacher and students should throw any available objects at a shooter forcing their way into the room. That would be things like nerf balls, lego pieces, and a stuffed toy rat. I cant believe that, at ranges measured in feet, not yards, that a stuffed rat wold be more effective than, even, a .380. Yes, I have heard people remark about .380 caliber pistols, things like "if you shoot someone with that, and they find out, they are gonna get real mad." Frankly, I write that off as ignorance and too many action movies.

I suspect most teachers are vehemently opposed to the very idea non-LEOs can own guns in the first place. So as with allowing concealed carriers to carry, the idea of "arming teachers" would involve those interested in doing so rather than those who do not.

The issue with police shooting anyone they see armed is a problem with policing, resulting from the drug war--the idea they are the blue line and we are the enemy.

As I mentioned in another post, this reflects a conversation with another teacher on the subject:

This issue seems to be gaining traction. I just had a couple of non-shooting, not anti, just non, teachers ask me my position in this issue. The inquiry was unprompted and my position was taken seriously.

I think my nuanced position did surprise them as I am generally a bit to the left of most of the teachers here.

As far as the other part of your post. There is no real plan that involves the teachers running around the halls with guns. The discussion involves teachers being able to secure their rooms. We already have Faculty vests that identify us as Faculty and are quite visible. The opponents of allowing teachers to actively secure their classrooms seem to have watched too many action films.

 

[dogtown tom]

The only problem I see with School Marshalls or Deputies roaming the halls is that it would be a terrible job to inflict on someone. Go to the school every day, walk around, sit around...just in case something happens. Even if you paid handsomely I'd imagine you'd have either the slackers of the world applying or a high turnover rate from people being bored out of their minds.....

No one is hired in Texas as a "School Marshal"......it's simply an existing teacher or school administrator who has undergone the required training. So there's no walk around, sit around".

Teachers are there every day....teaching. They have things to do to keep them occupied and interested and if they also could carry....should the worst happen they would have the chance to defend themselves and others. We'd not expect them to 'run to danger', but if danger presented itself at their doorstep....defend against it.

The simplest and most common sense plan would be to remove the prohibition against teachers carrying on school property. While it's currently legal to carry concealed with approval of your local school board, very few school boards in Texas want that because they wouldn't be in control.

 

[Old Guy]

Also might be a good idea to have some sort of vest or other form of ID for the armed teacher to put on should he/she ever get into a situation needing the firearm....just in case when the cops finally do come in they won't freak and shoot the first person they see with a gun. Hopefully.

A 5.56 round? Will go right through a vest! Both sides. But as ID? Not a bad idea. I sat through a lovely Fish Fry Fri afternoon, at our local Church Hall. Glock 19 4th Gen, and a spare magazine. Lawfully carried, not a School. Our little party of 4, we were protected, by me. Remember, the order of the day...Just in case.

 

[LiveLife]

Fish Fry ... at our local Church ... Glock 19 ... Lawfully carried ... we were protected, by me.

Because church is not a gun-free zone.

 

[LiveLife]

Callisburg, Texas with no city police department and potential for long response time by sheriff department, "Guardian Program" allows volunteer teachers to conceal carry. Discussion follows trained LE officer failing to respond to protect students (Yes, this is on CNN).




Argyle ISD Police Department Chief Paul Cairney speaks about training for armed volunteer teachers.




President's push for arming "highly trained" teachers followed by discussion on trained officer vs armed teachers - "When you are inside, trained for this specific situation ... everyday children are yours ... there would be different reaction" [than not responding]

 

[BSA1]

The only people proposing that teaches become security experts or go through mandatory extensive training are those that oppose concealed carry in school.

Because the average Joe isn't protecting a bunch of other peoples' kids

Should teachers be required to receive more training than the LEO's and SRO's in their community?

(You are probably uninformed about how much marksmanship training and how low the qualification score requirements really are for most LEO's).

Incidentally you do know that the Police are not required by law to protect anybody right?

 

[Elkins45]

I'm a retired public school teacher. I would happily have carried every day I was at school had it not been a felony.

I vote no on being a sitting duck.

 

[Hasaf]

Yesterday another issue, that was seen at the Florida school shooting, came up in the lunchroom.

At each drill, it is necessary to remind the students to never text to anyone, during the incident, that their teacher "has a gun." It is not about some "element of surprise" issue. It is because after being sent and resent, the police may mistake a version of the text, that they see, as saying that Mr. X is the shooter.

 

[George P]

Personally, I'd like to see cell phones banned in schools. Collect them at the beginning of the day; pass them out at the end.