Teachers in Texas schools are already armed / School Marshals

[RecoilRob]

I would be surprised that any school that does any program like this doesn't do it in coordination with local PD and Sheriff dept. with training together and drills. That way they know each other and know at least a little what to expect from the other.

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Also might be a good idea to have some sort of vest or other form of ID for the armed teacher to put on should he/she ever get into a situation needing the firearm....just in case when the cops finally do come in they won't freak and shoot the first person they see with a gun. Hopefully.

 

[LiveLife]

Also might be a good idea to have some sort of vest or other form of ID for the armed teacher to put on should he/she ever get into a situation needing the firearm....just in case when the cops finally do come in they won't freak and shoot the first person they see with a gun.

I agree and posted this on Post #13

It would be nice if school staff had access to body armor.

If it's not on their person they might as well not be doing it.

I think there are those who would be against carrying guns on person all the time (Keep in mind, these are school staff in "academic" environment) but would support having access to guns in active shooter situations where they would otherwise have no other option available to stop the shooter.

I still favor voluntary conceal carry by school staff as return fire on the active shooter could happen faster.

At least staff in these schools are "doing something" to protect the children. If conceal carry option is not viable for certain schools, then they could consider school marshal program instead.

 

[Grayrock]

One of my hunting camp buddies is the Superintendent at a nearby school district. He purchased 2 AR's a few years back that he keeps locked up in the school office.

 

[PabloJ]

Two and/or separate options and in both cases identities of school staff carrying or marshals are hidden:

1. Voluntary Concealed Carry - School staff conceal carry all the time
2. School Marshal Program - Part-time marshals with guns locked up


1. Voluntary Concealed Carry:

2/22/18 Los Angeles Times - As gun debate roils on, teachers in this Texas school are already armed - http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-school-armed-20180222-story.html

At Argyle High School, there is a sign posted that states, "Please be aware that the staff at Argyle are armed and may use whatever force is necessary to protect our students."

School board decided to allow staff to be armed after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in 2012.

After the school shooting in Florida, more staff at Argyle High School volunteered to carry guns.

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2. School Marshal Program:

2/24/18 Politico - How Texas is a model for Trump's gun-toting teachers - The state created a program to intensively train and arm "school marshals." Its creator thinks it could well be the inspiration for the president's endorsement of arming educators - https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/24/armed-teachers-texas-trump-362397

Texas created a program to train and arm school staff to become "school marshals":

• Must pass background check
• Participants go through active-shooter training
• Guns are kept in a lockbox
• Can only use frangible ammunition
• They are deputized only in active shooting situation

If I was a teacher I would do it for substantial pay increase. The money would come from fees levied on manufacturers and buyers of semi-automatic assault-style weapons, hi-cap magazines and associated paraphernalia. Another way to do it w/o burdening all taxpayers for right of some would be to create a system where parents could provide school security on rotating basis. The costs of training and possible pay should come out of pockets of those who make and use assault-style weapons and choose to own them.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Good luck with that.

 

[PabloJ]

Good luck with that.

Teaching and providing security against armed intrusion for same pay as just for teaching is stupid.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Teaching and providing security against armed intrusion for same pay as just for teaching is stupid.

Depending in the training involved the teachers may receive a stipend for their additional duty. That’s in that article above. Also in several other articles written about this subject. To require manufacturers to pay for that is not right. That’s along the same vein as allowing citizens to sue gunmakers for criminal use of their products. Or making a vehicle manufacturer pay for training people not to use their products to mow people down terrorist style. Additional taxes on gunmakers for this sort of thing is what’s stupid. Now sitting down and negotiating something in good faith with them as a donation or subsidy? That would be cool.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I notice Charlie Schumer is against the idea of defensive guns in schools and Democrats in droves denounce Trump and NRA for proposing armed deputies or teachers with CCW in schools as a good thing.

http://www.timesnews.net/article/90...-board-of-education-eyes-sros-for-all-schools
Rick Wagner, "Sullivan County Board of Education eyes SROs for all schools", Kingsport Times-News, 7 Jan 2013.
"The Sullivan County Board of Education's aim is to have a school resource officer assigned to all 20 school campuses in the county, not just the four high schools that have had SROs since 1997."

Our SROs are not merely armed guards, but conduct public safety programs and present a positive image of LE to students.

30 Aug 2010 the Sullivan South SRO, Deputy Carolyn Gudger, engaged an armed intruder who had the principal at gunpoint.

And Charlie Schumer thinks it's a bad idea. I wonder if he proposes a federal ban on armed SROs in addition to maintaining Gun Free School Zones Forever.

1990 Gun Free School Zone made it a felony to be in possession of a firearm within 1000 feet of a school.
1994 Assault Weapon Ban banned military looking firearms (imported the German 1970s "Anscheinswaffe" (military-looking rifle) Ban, later repealed)
1999 Columbine High School massacre.

1990 GFSZ. My home was 450 feet from the nearest school grounds.
1994 AWB Some of my guns were "grandfathered" but the Dem rhetoric about gun owners was duly noted.
1999 Columbine. I also duly noted how little effect bans on things had on bad behavior by bad people; reminded of growing up under local option alcohol prohibition 1953-1968; same rhetoric as gun control advocacy.

 

[LiveLife]

Thing with paying extra for school staff to conceal carry is that then some people may do it just for money and during active shooter situations, like the Florida deputies, not engage the shooter.

I think allowing school staff to conceal carry should be done on a voluntary basis. This way school staff will conceal carry because they want to protect their lives and lives of children. If we want to provide support for these volunteers, how about providing free guns and training?

Posted this on another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-you-should-carry.833093/page-2#post-10772039

... arming teachers should only be seen as an auxiliary, last-ditch component to school security..

Why?

Voluntary conceal carry by teachers who already own guns/conceal carry permits cost nothing ... and perhaps nominal cost for additional training.

People are demanding we "DO SOMETHING". Let us:

1. Implement short-term no or low cost solutions like allowing voluntary conceal carry by school staff nation-wide with additional training.

2. Set up federal grant programs (President Trump will likely support such programs) and I am sure we can even set up national FUND ME to cover cost of guns and training. If free guns and training were available, more school staff may volunteer to conceal carry.

3. Push law makers to work on other short-term and long-term solutions (But likely these solutions may cost modest amount to substantial amount of money which will likely increase taxes).

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Bds is on point here. I do know that some districts do pay for the training. Some training facilities also offer pretty deep discounts for training teachers. The shooting course developed by at least one range in my area was developed with serious input from the state DPS. It ain’t casual. And frankly, the training isn’t just good for schools. Churches and other places would benefit from it also.

It can work. And the plans to “do something” should be implemented, and owned by the facilitators in the schools. Not be subject to paralysis by analysis on internet discussion boards.

 

[Hasaf]

As people in this thread have seen , I have a very nuanced; but positive position on allowing teachers to carry, with appropriate and accessible training.

This issue seems to be gaining traction. I just had a couple of non-shooting, not anti, just non, teachers ask me my position in this issue. The inquiry was unprompted and my position was taken seriously.

I think my nuanced position did surprise them as I am generally a bit to the left of most of the teachers here.

 

[PabloJ]

It is good opportunity for willing teachers to ask for substantial pay raise. No extra money no extra responsibility.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

It is good opportunity for willing teachers to ask for substantial pay raise. No extra money no extra responsibility.

Almost like holding the students for ransom huh?

 

[PabloJ]

Almost like holding the students for ransom huh?

I'm trying to be fair. Our government sends billions of dollars to foreign countries so they can use the money to buy our weapons providing tax subsidy system for military industrial complex companies. Politicians always give green light to this because they probably own stock in those companies and get re-election contributions from them. I would rather see that money spent on our citizens and infrastructure of our country. I see no reason why they can't pay teachers more.

 

[Hasaf]

It is good opportunity for willing teachers to ask for substantial pay raise. No extra money no extra responsibility.

Frankly, I wouldn't lead with that. All that does is gives another reason to say "no." At the same time, I would include a request to receive CEU's for any training. Depending on your district, this may be points toward bumping you up a step (not my district, here you only go up steps for college credits).

Even if you don't go up a step, the CEU's might get you out of some, less interesting, training options for your certificate renewal (however, again, it does me no good. With a Masters in my field, I don't need CEU's for renewal. . . too bad I can't sell CEU's).

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I would rather see that money spent on our citizens and infrastructure of our country.

I'd prefer they not take it from citizens in the first place.

 

[LiveLife]

I look at it this way. We expect daycare centers to ensure the safety of our children.

So while children are at school, it is the responsibility of school staff to ensure the safety of children.

Since Florida shooting exposed that reporting threat of school shooting, local law enforcement, FBI and even the SRO/responding deputies failed to ensure the safety of the children, school staff need to examine other options to ensure the safety of children, even if it means protecting the children themselves.

So we as a society change the requirements for teachers ... now they are protectors of our children too in addition to being educators.

This will likely reduce the number of people interested in becoming teachers ... it already has. So let's boost the salary to substantiate their duties and improve recruitment and retention of teachers.

 

[PabloJ]

I'd prefer they not take it from citizens in the first place.

We could pay less if there was will to cut size of military and their budget. This will not happen because world empire would be lost corporate profits would fall along with value of USD and China would became number one world super power sooner. Weapons makers would really take a hit along with many well paying jobs being lost. If things progress as they are I predict Chinese will take over in 15 to 20 years when they have world navy to rival ours. The politicians both Democrat and Republican are helpless to deal with this, therefore, they just keep the status quo and keep on increasing the national debt load.

 

[FAS1]

This mother just walked in like nothings happening and no nobody questioned her to prove her point. There's a pretty long video of her just walking thorough the school here in San Antonio the other day.

Clearly we need to have better security in our schools today along with ending GFZ's.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-walk...ry?id=53304996

 

[PabloJ]

In poor districts schools now have to raise, educate, feed plus protect the kids against terrorists with assault-style weapons (AR-15 is overwhelmingly weapon of choice). Little incentive to go into this profession unless one has ability to teach at one of them schools were kids of the rich go. You know, the ones where room and board is $50,000 to $60,000 per year.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

at one of them schools

 

[dogtown tom]

If I was a teacher I would do it for substantial pay increase. The money would come from fees levied on manufacturers and buyers of semi-automatic assault-style weapons, hi-cap magazines and associated paraphernalia. Another way to do it w/o burdening all taxpayers for right of some would be to create a system where parents could provide school security on rotating basis. The costs of training and possible pay should come out of pockets of those who make and use assault-style weapons and choose to own them.

Worst. Idea. Ever.
You are espousing the same ignorance as the Brady Campaign and the liberal left.
What part of IT'S NOT THE GUN do you not get?
What part of IT's NOT THE LAW ABIDING GUN OWNER do you not get?

Shame on you.

 

[dogtown tom]

Teaching and providing security against armed intrusion for same pay as just for teaching is stupid.

<------teacher.
If my job description were to include policing and providing security services in addition to my teaching duties then heck yeah I want a pay increase.

That's not the same as allowing teacher to carry their personal firearm while on the job. that's currently illegal in most states unless approved by your local school district.

All I want is to be able to carry where the bad guys can.

 

[dogtown tom]

Almost like holding the students for ransom huh?

No one is holding students for ransom......that's just a silly ignorant statement.
No one should expect a schoolteacher to suddenly become a armed personal security expert/LE officer without extensive training. If you want me to be an excellent educator and an excellent police officer then you aren't going to get me to do that for a teachers salary.

 

[PabloJ]

This mother just walked in like nothings happening and no nobody questioned her to prove her point. There's a pretty long video of her just walking thorough the school here in San Antonio the other day.

Clearly we need to have better security in our schools today along with ending GFZ's.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-walk...ry?id=53304996

Worst. Idea. Ever.
You are espousing the same ignorance as the Brady Campaign and the liberal left.
What part of IT'S NOT THE GUN do you not get?
What part of IT's NOT THE LAW ABIDING GUN OWNER do you not get?

Shame on you.

The AR-15 is most likely firearm to be carried by those that commit acts of terror on our innocent population. Every time this happens people that enjoy guns loose ground. What part of that do you not get? If nothing is done about this situation I'm going to loose my 2nd Amendment rights.