CCW in Bars?

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The law is to prevent problems with those guys lacking in said good sense or self-restraint.
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And as I've stated, we should clearly outlaw pool tables and steak knives in the same establishments, since the law is to prevent problems with restraint. But instead, we focus on the tool, instead of the criminal. "Guns r bad, mkay?" Never mind that enough lethal objects are present in any bar setting to kill a platoon of unarmed folks.
 
Just 'cause it's legal don't make it right, and just 'cause it's illegal, don't make it wrong.

Never did believe in mob rule.

Biker
 
So I just went in the bar and had a beer. I know that concealed means just that, and there was no problem whatever…other than the fact that I was breaking the law.
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If you had 10 beers in a row, yeah I'd say that is a problem. But I see no issue here.

On paper, there are restrictions about CCW. In the real world, you can CCW almost anywhere as long as you keep it concealed. Of course you get guys blurting out "but law XYZ says this!" And your point is?

I still have a fundamental issue with this- let's say we comply with the law 100 percent, but you end up being killed because you are unarmed. Do you go to your grave thinking "well at least I obeyed the law....."

Getting back to it, the biggest issue with a CCW in a bar is individual responsibility and the level of drinking. If you are irresponsible and drink a lot while CCWing, I think that is a problem. If you have to use your CCW in self-defense while intoxicated, yup you are going to have to face the music for it.


However, it could be the same in your own home. If have access to alcohol in your home- should they make a law banning guns in your house if you have alcohol there? Overall as a country, we need to move towards responsibility for our own actions rather than relying on (and assuming that) laws create responsibility.
 
siglite,

I never said you can't have a beer just because you carry. Just like you can have a beer and get behind the wheel of a car.

Sarcasm aside, the belief that people will drink responsibly is flawed by one major example.

17,000 drunkdriving related deaths every year. That's just the fatalities, and does not include the actual number on non-fatal injuries.

I consider carrying a weapon a huge responsibility. Just like I don't want my LEO, doctor, nurse, truckdriver, pilot, dentist,teacher, or anyone else in a position of responsibility drinking alcohol.

I haven't been able to legally carry in bars or restaurants for 20 years. Now I might get the chance. If not drinking alcohol will allow me to do that then it is a small sacrifice. Alcohol doesn't mean that much to me.

For me it is just common sense. Alcohol and guns don't mix.
 
Tntwatt,

Whether or not I agree with your idea of prior restraint, the question remains:

Are the people who go into bars to get hammered and cause trouble going to respect the law that says they can't have firearms in a bar? Just like they respect the one that says they can't assault someone in a bar with any weapon? Just like they respect the one that says they can't get drunk and drive?

Let the troublemakers carry firearms. They'll cancel each other out, while the rest of us peaceful people can be in peace, having the ability to defend ourselves if they start trouble with someone who was minding his own business.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Sans,
Let the troublemakers carry firearms. They'll cancel each other out
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Do you want to be standing there when they do?

You're talking about close environments. Not just bars but also retaurants.

What happens when a CCW whose has one too many while he's having supper? Not drunk, just enough to screw with his aim. I for one don't want to be anywhere near him.

Search the net for yourself, read the studies on alcohol and relflex and motor control. I think you'll be amazed at how little alcohol it takes to affect your motor control. I'm not talking about the anti-alcohol sites. Their stats will be slanted against alcohol. I'm talking about the purely medical research type sites.

We all know how hard it can be to hit your target. Now add to that the stress of a self defense senario and the decreased motor control the fight or flight response causes. Then add alcohol.

This isn't about the right to carry. I am so pro-carry that it drives my wife nuts. This is about the responsibilty we have to carry safely and if necessary to hit the target and not the innocents.

By the way, I do drink on occasion. I just make sure it's in the safest environment possible. Bars and restaurants are not safe environments and should always carry a yellow level. You can't be alert if your senses are dulled.
 
Valkman,
even in NV it is illegal to be under the influence of alcohol while in posession of a firearm. The statutes define under the influence as an alcohol level of 0.10 or "to a degree which renders him incapable of safely exercising actual physical control of a firearm."

here's the link: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-202.html#NRS202Sec257

This is basically the same as NV law for driving. It all boils down to can you prove you are sober enough.
 
A few of my buds read this thread and they brought it up in conversation Saturday afternoon right before we were headed out for the evening.

Everyone was feeling pretty sorry for all you fellows who can't or won't carry in bars so we decided to "pour one for the homies" so to speak and drink a few for all of those who can't.

We musta hit half the bars in town and then finished the evening off at a seedy strip club, everyone with a concealed handgun.

I don't have much recollection regarding my buddies conditions but I certainly got absolutely smashed. Weirdly, my 1911 still didn't hop out of it's holster and blow anyone away.
 
Valkman,
even in NV it is illegal to be under the influence of alcohol while in posession of a firearm. The statutes define under the influence as an alcohol level of 0.10 or "to a degree which renders him incapable of safely exercising actual physical control of a firearm."
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We weren't talking about that - of course CCW while intoxicated is illegal. I said CCW in bars and casinos is perfectly legal and I have done it many, many times. I don't drink anyway so being intoxicated isn't going to be a problem. The problem is idiotic laws banning CCW holders from places like these.
 
I don't have much recollection regarding my buddies conditions but I certainly got absolutely smashed. Weirdly, my 1911 still didn't hop out of it's holster and blow anyone away.
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I want to go on record saying that I do NOT advocate that. ^^
 
let me go on record as saying that there really arent too many situations AT ALL that i would say someone should not be able to ccw. this though is one. so before anyone destroys me let me just say that i am all about the drinks and the weps.

in a nutshell....

im sure that all of us here are capable of inbibing (drinking adult bevs for those of us in AL :neener:) without pulling our weapon and putting 3 in the first a-hole that mouths off. however...there are those who have passed whatever prereq's that your state requires and will feel the need to at least brandish their piece. this hurts the rest of us who never would.

bottom line without arguing for 3 pages...although it may suck...if you cant carry and want to...dont go!

p.s. , caveat, adendum:

better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. ("cough cough" but with a serious tone :) )
 
The following situations, suggestions, and ideas are all completely hypothetical and probably never happened....

I find the WA law regarding CCW in bars to be very irritating. I have posted about it before. I would never break any law so, of course, I do not carry in any bar.

In addition to the usual fallacies regarding weapons restrictions (i.e. only the law abiding will be disarmed), there are other problems with the restriction of firearms in bars.
1. Outlawing CCW increases the chances of firearm theft in some circumstances. I ride a motorcycle with almost no storage on it. There is no secure way to lock my gun in my bike when a group of friends decides (without any forewarning) to have lunch at a "bar". I can leave my gun "locked" in my bike, and very vulnerable to theft, or I can leave. I often tend to leave the group at bars in a very awkward manner, since I rarely know every person in the group well enough to tell them about carrying.
BTW, I do not drink, EVEN ONE DRINK, EVER, while I am riding the motorcycle! Yet, I am still prohibitted from carrying when my friends have chosen a bar or casino for lunch.
2. If anyone were ever to illegally carry a gun into a bar, they may be more likely to drink more. That's right. If you are illegal anyway, why not have 3 or 4 beers? I am not saying that this is right or prudent. If the law gave a minimum BAC, even if it were 0.00%, I would abide by it and be happy. As it is now, I abide by it and I am not happy :(

Be safe, rainbowbob.
 
Sorry if I offended or pushed any buttons in this thread. Got run over by a drunk in '04 and spent 18 months in a wheelchair. The subject of alcohol tends to get me on my sanctimonious soap box.
 
Naw, don't worry about it. That situation would tend to make anybody a bit hypersensitive. Hope you mended up O.K.

This thread is all over the place because of the wildly differing opinions. The OP might want to turn it into a poll. ;)

Opinions range from:
A. Do not even walk past a bar whilst carrying, the fumes alone will make one draw.

To:

B. I got so toasted last night that I don't even remember going to the last three bars! My gun is missing but that's happened before. It'll turn up. The guys told me it was pretty funny watching me drive them home. :(

Surely, (quit calling me Shirley!) there is a common middle ground that we, as gunnies, can agree to. How the heck are we even going to broach the subject with an uninformed/anti if we can't even find a consensus amongst ourselves?

Such as:

C. Concealed carry allowed in bars, BAC of no more than 1/2 of your state driving allowance. Would this pass scrutiny?
 
I don't have much recollection regarding my buddies conditions but I certainly got absolutely smashed.
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I am thinking that this behavior is precisely why they have "no CCW in bars" law.

Mike
 
My opinion on the matter is the same as Old Dog. As a life-long Washington resident, I just don't carry into bars since the legal consequences are too severe. I lock it in my vehicle, or if I don't have that option, I don't go into that bar.

The other week, my wife and I were up in the Lynden area, and we did not cross over into Canada since I had a handgun in the vehicle or on my person. Now the chances of a middle-aged couple driving a nice car being searched at the border is probably pretty darn low, but suffice it to say that there would have been significant legal problems had I carried up into Canada and been discovered. Heck, I was careful to stay on the American side of the Peace Arch park in Blaine.

I can say concealed means concealed all I want to, but when I go to the courthouse on business and have to pass the metal detector, concealed doesn't cut it. If I am going to a concert and they are wanding people at the door, concealed doesn't cut it. Losing my Washington and Utah CPL just isn't worth it, and there are many situations in which I cannot carry at all times. I have learned to live with it.
 
No one should not be allowed to carry in a bar. The only reason to go there is to drink & fight. Nevermind that I am there all night playing music & loading out tens of thousands of dollars in a dark alley @ 3 AM. At least I can get drunk & fight. I can't be trusted.
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Well maybe you go into just drink and fight, but many of us go with our spouses or girlfriends (not at the same time) to have a drink and get something to eat. I have never been in a bar fight and if someone got obnoxious with me, I'd just leave. That being said, I don't carry in any establishment that serves alcohol because its against the law.
 
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No one should not be allowed to carry in a bar. The only reason to go there is to drink & fight. Nevermind that I am there all night playing music & loading out tens of thousands of dollars in a dark alley @ 3 AM. At least I can get drunk & fight. I can't be trusted.

Well maybe you go into just drink and fight, but many of us go with our spouses or girldfriends (not at the same time) to have a drink and get something to eat. I have never been in a bar fight and if someone got obnoxious with me, I'd just leave. That being said, I don't carry in any establishment that serves alcohol because its against the law.
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Taken out of context, the rest of my post must have freaked you out. Schools, parks, etc. I'm a bad man.
Please take note of the following at the end of my original post.
This :rolleyes: applies to all the above.
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Sarcasm does not seem to convey well within text.


I am a professional musician. I do not drink when I am working. In fact, other than a glass or two of a nice cab with a med rare steak, I hardly drink at all. Getting drunk loses its charm once you’ve done it enough. :cool:

The consensus seems to be that bars are dangerous places where drunken people congregate. Yet it appears that only a minority of people believe that a 100% sober person there for whatever reason they choose, (designated driver, work, music, fun & games, etc,) should have the ability to CCW. Hmm…

The two paragraphs above a certified sarcasm-free. Well, the “Hmm…” may be pushing the dreaded envelope.
 
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