CMP south store visit

[igotta40]

Enroute from the northeast back to Texas I took a side trip to Anniston for some Greek ball ammo and a sling for my Springfield. The racks there are empty now, except for a handful of expensive sniper models, a few drill rifles, and eight Specials in .308 caliber. Actually there are seven left now. The folks there didn't have any info to offer about more rifles arriving.

 

[BradN]

I've been buying from the CMP for 12 years. The pickings are now pretty slim. I was very lucky to have just gotten a field grade M1 carbine. I waited 3+ years since Orest casually mentioned one day he was sitting on 1,300 carbines. I've heard rumors of some M1903s on the CMP forums. The Turk Garands a while ago (I thought) were from the Turk air force. Maybe we'll see some from the Turk army one day? Then, who knows? The Luxembourg Coast Guard?

The future M1911 release will be crazy. I want to see the price first. I'd like one but I'm not crazy/rich.

 

[200Apples]

The racks there are empty now, except for a handful of expensive sniper models, a few drill rifles, and eight Specials in .308 caliber. Actually there are seven left now.

If you're implying something, here, then, we wanna see pics!

Congrats!

 

[igotta40]

I'm not implying anything, I'm stating a fact. The store is empty and there's no indication of restocking. The website confirms this. If you want a CMP Garand, there's seven left in caliber .308, and a few expensive sniper models.

I started to take a pic but I was a little self conscious about it.
Just look at the website photos and imagine those wooden racks empty....

 

[igotta40]

Apologies 200, I misunderstood your message. My .308 Garand Special and the ammo will ship to me in Texas tomorrow. I wanted to take it with me but I couldn't resist free shipping to my door and zero sales tax.

 

[mshootnit]

Of course those racks still could be full if CMP would have limited purchases to dissuade the resellers and hoarders. It was never meant to be an M1 wholesaler but that is how it ended up.

 

[Llama Bob]

Of course those racks still could be full if CMP would have limited purchases to dissuade the resellers and hoarders. It was never meant to be an M1 wholesaler but that is how it ended up.

Yup, the whole thing was a boondoggle and as a taxpayer I find it disgusting. When the government has surplus to sell, it should be sold to the highest legal bidder, thus saving the taxpayers the most possible money. Instead the rifles were sold to an inside club at below market rate, and in turn scalped for many hundreds of dollars each on the open market.

Flat out disgusting. An investigation is in order, ideally leading to jail time.

 

[crazysccrmd]

Yup, the whole thing was a boondoggle and as a taxpayer I find it disgusting. When the government has surplus to sell, it should be sold to the highest legal bidder, thus saving the taxpayers the most possible money. Instead the rifles were sold to an inside club at below market rate, and in turn scalped for many hundreds of dollars each on the open market.

Flat out disgusting. An investigation is in order, ideally leading to jail time.

Anyone can buy from the CMP, it's not exactly hard. If you wanted a CMP Garand and didn't buy one it's no one's fault but your own.

 

[Llama Bob]

Anyone can buy from the CMP, it's not exactly hard. If you wanted a CMP Garand and didn't buy one it's no one's fault but your own.

This is false. The CMP requires membership in clubs THEY APPROVE OF. They then sell at $500-800 below market rate to people who are members of those clubs.

Think about this: suppose I was a government official auctioning off government oil leases, and if you happened to be in a club I approved of (say, my country club) you got millions in discounts. Shouldn't I go to jail for that? CMP has cost the taxpayers many millions by selling rifles to their preferred scalpers in just that scheme.

 

[funnelcake]

The Kansas State Rifle Association is one of those "clubs"... I was already a member...

I'm with crazysccrmd...:banghead:

 

[crazysccrmd]

The CMP tells you what clubs qualify (over 2000 of them), how to contact and how to join them. It was not hard to find and join one to place an order. The CMP hasn't cost taxpayers anything. If you want to use that reasoning then the rifles should be given away for free since they were already paid for by the taxpayers.

 

[Llama Bob]

The CMP tells you what clubs qualify (over 2000 of them), how to contact and how to join them. It was not hard to find and join one to place an order. The CMP hasn't cost taxpayers anything. If you want to use that reasoning then the rifles should be given away for free since they were already paid for by the taxpayers.

The CMP has cost the taxpayers on the order of $500 per rifle - maybe as much as $1000/rifle in some cases. That's easily proven by comparing their prices to open market prices on auction and retail sites.


I haven't been able to find a figure on how many times the CMP scammed the taxpayers this way (i.e. number of rifles sold below market price) but it's a very large number. Certainly many millions of dollars worth that should have been in the US treasury instead of the hands of scalpers.

 

[Llama Bob]

Incidentally, for those that have any doubt, please read 36 U.S. Code § 40732. That's the section of the law that authorizes CMP to sell rifles. It specifically requires they must be sold at "fair market value". In other words, the CMP has been breaking the law for a very very long time.

The way the CMP has been operated is fraud, and it should lead to prison.

 

[crazysccrmd]

I'll say it again. The taxpayers already paid for every single one of those rifles. They are not costing the taxpayers any more money by selling for a fair price.

 

[BradN]

The goal of the CMP is (1) to encourage marksmanship, not (2) to sell surplus rifles. To do (1), you need revenues from (2). CMP made the decision to increase (2) to the benefit of (1).

 

[smithman 10]

CMP

Good thing this is The High Road or some name calling might ensue after llama bob's remarks about the "criminal" activities of the CMP, as fine of an organization promoting marksmanship and the Second Amendment as I can think of.

The way I see it, CMP has raised their prices consistently over the years. What happens is folks who have not bothered to take the time to join a club (the cost is nominal for me here in Virginia with the VSSA) are willing to bid up the price in the secondary market for Garands.

I bought an M-1 and a 1903A3 about 12 years ago from CMP for a little more than $400 each. Now they are worth about double that on the open market.

What's the current CMP M-1 service grade price? Can't tell because they are sold out on their website. But seems to me it was round about $700. Anybody remember the last price?

Again, the CMP, IMHO, is one great organization!!

 

[kwg020]

Llama bob said"

The CMP has cost the taxpayers on the order of $500 per rifle - maybe as much as $1000/rifle in some cases. That's easily proven by comparing their prices to open market prices on auction and retail sites.


I haven't been able to find a figure on how many times the CMP scammed the taxpayers this way (i.e. number of rifles sold below market price) but it's a very large number. Certainly many millions of dollars worth that should have been in the US treasury instead of the hands of scalpers.

When bill and Hillary were in the Whitehouse they were crushing them as fast as they could. We are lucky Congress stepped in and put an end to it. It's better that they are on the market than in the mouth of Cpt. Crunch.
kwg

 

[amd6547]

In some ways, I agree that cmp should have limited purchases.
Here in Northeast Ohio, we are about an hour drive from North store.
I recall going to a local gun show, and seeing stacks of hxp 30.06, and table full of carbines and Garands from cmp.
There were people making weekly trips to buy stuff and resell.
When I was at North store to buy my carbine, I saw a pickup from Indiana being loaded with crates of hxp...enough to fill the bed.
As far as the rest of it, getting certified to buy from cmp is nowhere near as hard as it is made out to be.

 

[cfullgraf]

The CMP has cost the taxpayers on the order of $500 per rifle - maybe as much as $1000/rifle in some cases. That's easily proven by comparing their prices to open market prices on auction and retail sites.

Actually, they don't hurt taxpayers as proceeds from sales go into the CMP programs.

Not too long ago, the street price for a Garand was a $100 or $200 more than the CMP price. With the lack of inventory at CMP and the long wait times, the street prices have increased. It does not mean the street price is a fair market value.

When CMP raises their prices, the street prices go up as well.

CMP sells stuff that is authorized by Congress to cover the cost of their programs. It is not in their charter to hold one rifle for every citizen of the United States.

It used to be in the DCM days, one rifle per life. It evolved into one rifle per year and then on to 12 or rifles per year as it is today. While it is not against the rules to resell rifles, it is against the spirit but CMP does little to discourage it these days. Again, it is not in CMP's charter to provide everyone with a Garand.

The political climate since 2009 has increased the volume of sales way beyond the capability of CMP to meet the demand. Yes, the supply of Garands is finite but CMP keeps that information close.

Back around 2008-2009, some folks were backing up to the CMP stores with pick up trucks and loading them with ammunition until the bed settled on the axle. This ammunition was then resold on the internet, gun shows, gun stores, street corners and back allies. CMP did put an end to that by placing a limit on the amount of ammunition that could be purchased.

Shifting gears, the easiest club of all to join to qualify for CMP purchases is the Garand Collector's Association. A simple membership fee that comes with a nice quarterly magazine that covers many aspects of the Garand.

 

[Tirod]

As far as I know I'm a one card member of the club. Retired USAR over sixty over the rank of E4.

Considering the Swiss get to keep their full auto battle rifles once their term of service is over, plus are given 1,000 rounds of ammo annually to practice, I'd like to know where mine is?

Nope, I have to line up and pay.

If other people took advantage of this, and there's no more rifles on the racks, then address your Congressman why they disallow it. The M16 can be converted to semi auto only, it's YOUR representative who's unwilling to change the policy. They let the ATF keep the doors closed.

Fix the real problem. Until then the CMP is going to have no guns.

 

[Fishbed77]

Anyone can buy from the CMP, it's not exactly hard. If you wanted a CMP Garand and didn't buy one it's no one's fault but your own.

This sums it up. The CMP's mission is to promote marksmanship and safety, not to sell rifles to generate profits. Selling these rifles quickly and affordably was the best way to put funds in their account to accomplish this mission and high-quality and affordable rifles in the hands of citizens.

I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer them to put limits on the numbers sold to individual buyers, but that's not what is done and there's no secret about how the CMP operates.

This is false. The CMP requires membership in clubs THEY APPROVE OF. They then sell at $500-800 below market rate to people who are members of those clubs.

It costs $25 to sign up for the Garand Collector's Association online. That's what I did and it's incredibly easy. If you are too lazy to do this, you have no one to blame but yourself.

I'll say it again. The taxpayers already paid for every single one of those rifles. They are not costing the taxpayers any more money by selling for a fair price.

Yes - every one of these rifles is bought and long since paid for.

But to be be more correct - most of these rifles were paid for not by taxpayers directly, but with WAR BONDS. You know - when the government had to beg for money from citizens to conduct war, rather than borrow from banks and tax unborn generations.

 

[shafter]

Don't be jealous of those who saw a good deal and took advantage of it. The only issue I have is they let people buy too many. Something like a dozen a year if I remember right. You can be sure there's been a lot of flipping going on. I have two and plan to keep 'em.

 

[Llama Bob]

The fundamental cause of people buying so many and flipping them is that they were illegally sold below fair market price in violation of the law creating the CMP.

It's fraud, plain and simple. The victims were the taxpayers. The perpetrators should be imprisoned commensurate with any other interstate multi-million dollar fraud and forced to make restitution.

 

[cfullgraf]

The fundamental cause of people buying so many and flipping them is that they were illegally sold below fair market price in violation of the law creating the CMP.

It's fraud, plain and simple. The victims were the taxpayers. The perpetrators should be imprisoned commensurate with any other interstate multi-million dollar fraud and forced to make restitution.

I guess by this logic, the 22LR manufacturers should have raised prices of their rimfire ammunition to scalper prices during the great shortage.

In recent years, the requirements to buy a Garand from CMP have been very easy to meet. CMP even advertised in many gun magazines so it was easy to learn about CMP.

It has been very easy during the last 8-10 years or so for anyone who qualifies to legally buy a gun could get a Garand shipped to their doorstep.

Folks have the option to get a Garand at CMP's market price and wait a little for delivery or pay a premium price locally to get instant gratification.

When I bought my first Garand, I had to shoot a certain number of shots in competition as part of the qualification. Not difficult but required more effort and time. The club I shot at had loaner Garands and CMP provided the ammunition. Such a deal.

 

[Llama Bob]

I guess by this logic, the 22LR manufacturers should have raised prices of their rimfire ammunition to scalper prices during the great shortage.

Private individuals are free to set their pricing wherever they want. The CMP is required by federal law (as already referenced) to set their pricing at market price. By failing to do so, they fraudulently gave millions of dollars that belong to the taxpayers to their preferred scalpers.

Disgusting.