Collins Introduces Bill To Eliminate Unconstitutional Sporting Purpose Distinction

[dc dalton]

Not sure how far this will go but it's worth a try I guess.

Today, Representative Doug Collins (R-GA) introduced legislation to eliminate the "sporting purpose" distinction contained in the Internal Revenue Code and the Federal Criminal Code. H.R. 2277 restores Second Amendment protections to all firearms.

http://dawsontimes.com/rep-collins-...nal-sporting-purpose-distinction-in-gun-laws/

Text of the bill: http://amgoa.org/Proposed-Federal-Gun-Legislation-HB2277/Federal-Law/424

 

[Sam1911]

If that isn't just the coolest thing to even see proposed, I don't know what is!

Next up, Hughes Amendment!

 

[dc dalton]

If that isn't just the coolest thing to even see proposed, I don't know what is!

Next up, Hughes Amendment!

I had to look at it over and over and then actually ask someone else. Basically from what we can tell it levels the playing field for all guns, there's would no longer be any distinction between an AR-15 and a Winchester model 94 when it comes to our existing gun laws.

ETA: As my friend put it: It takes the power away from the US AG the power to make determinations on classes of firearms and ban or tax them because they have no "sporting purposes"

 

[Aikibiker]

Popvox link: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hr2277

Let your Reps know you support this bill.

 

[Midwest]

One of the best examples is when the BATF used the "Sporting Purpose" excuse to take the USAS-12, Striker-12, and Streetsweeper shotguns out from the category of regular shotguns and put them into the NFA category. Not that I care to buy a Striker-12, but I never understood why these were put in the NFA in the first place, it didn't make sense. At one time you could buy these over the counter as any regular shotgun.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-1.html



Now if we could get rid of the import ban...(or can this bill do that too?) We can get some Chinese SKS again in this country as well as some AK-47's . This is a great step in the right direction.

 

[mister_murphy]

It has my support, but I also hope that the Hughes amendment really is next. That's the 2 main issues I have the the second amendment as it stands now.

 

[Nickel Plated]

Actually as I understand it, all shotguns are technically NFA items. Most however are exempt because of their sporting uses. It is the ATFs discretion wether to exempt a gun or not. And they decided the striker 12 wasn't sporting enough to have a reason to be exempt.
So could this bill accidentally make all of our shotguns into destructive devices? Because there is no lobger a sporting purpose distinction to exempt them?

 

[Midwest]

Actually as I understand it, all shotguns are technically NFA items. Most however are exempt because of their sporting uses. It is the ATFs discretion wether to exempt a gun or not. And they decided the striker 12 wasn't sporting enough to have a reason to be exempt.
So could this bill accidentally make all of our shotguns into destructive devices? Because there is no lobger a sporting purpose distinction to exempt them?

I just could never picture a rusty 'Jed Clampett' Shotgun sitting in someones closet as a NFA destructive device. Actually from what I understand, the bill prevents the ATF from arbitrarily declaring something non sporting...so all shotguns would be safe.

 

[Sam1911]

The NFA '34 does indeed make all weapons with a bore size over 1/2" Destructive Devices, and then gives the Attorney General the oversight to decide that various weapons that would be DDs have sporting purposes and may be exempted.

That's fantastic, because any bill that automatically made about 100 million legally-owned shotguns unregistered Title II firearms overnight would go a long way to blowing the whole issue wide open.

 

[Zoogster]

Yeah but it would have been better to take such things on a couple years ago.

The pendulum has swung the other way many places and legislators are increasing restrictions now. The result is 'blowing it wide open' would more likely just result in a shotgun exemption as a quick legislative fix rather than changing the gun laws written around sporting purpose exemptions.



I do think the time is near to remove sporting purpose legislations. Heller and McDonald reaffirmed what everyone with any historical knowledge already knew: The 2nd had nothing to do with sports, or sporting arms, and the arms most clearly protected are in fact the least 'sporting' arms.
'Sporting purpose' legislation is in direct opposition to this and quite obviously unConstitutional.

 

[Sam1911]

The pendulum has swung the other way many places and legislators are increasing restrictions now. The result is 'blowing it wide open' would more likely just result in a shotgun exemption as a quick legislative fix rather than changing the gun laws written around sporting purpose exemptions.

I'm of two minds on that. I see your point, but I think that we're now seeing a thoroughly riled and motivated shooting public putting a LOT of pressure on legislators.

We had been on a long, somewhat gradual shift toward better 2nd Amendment laws, relaxing the tight restrictions of the '80s-'90s, but there was a lot of complacency among our ranks. The Sandy Hook massacre and some other traumatic events of last year put society in motion. The antis woke up and started screaming for blood, of course, and they made a little headway (all in the states, nothing AT ALL federally, remember). But at the same time we witnessed a massive scare among "our side" was a huge shot of adrenaline in the arm to the sleeping giant we've always claimed to be.

I don't think we'll know the full ramifications of that shake up for a few years yet, but I see great reason for optimism.

 

[dc dalton]

One of the best examples is when the BATF used the "Sporting Purpose" excuse to take the USAS-12, Striker-12, and Streetsweeper shotguns out from the category of regular shotguns and put them into the NFA category. Not that I care to buy a Striker-12, but I never understood why these were put in the NFA in the first place, it didn't make sense. At one time you could buy these over the counter as any regular shotgun.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-1.html



Now if we could get rid of the import ban...(or can this bill do that too?) We can get some Chinese SKS again in this country as well as some AK-47's . This is a great step in the right direction.

I could never understand suppressors being NFA items, seriously.

 

[Old Fuff]

We keep moving toward an election year, and I suspect with 20-20 hindsight a lot of Democrats wish they hadn't brought up the subject.

This bill will be strongly opposed in the Senate with the gun-control faction and media supporters doing everything they can to kill it. In the House it might stand a chance, but if it continued on I would expect the president to veto it.

A lot depends on what happens in the 2014 election. If the Democrats get bombed (and in particular if they lose control of the Senate), The bill's chances might only face a White House veto - hopefully followed by an overide.

Last but not least, if Obama finds himself in the same fix that happened to Bill Clinton in 1994, he might be willing to sign such a bill in exchange for getting something else.

Only time will tell.

 

[MAKster]

I think there is a zero chance that the sporting purpose test could be ruled unconstitutional. Remember it only restricts the importation of firearms from foreign countries. The Constitution states Congress has the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations. In my opinion the sporting purpose test is actually one of the only constitutional federal firearms laws.

 

[Prince Yamato]

This law is fantastic. It needs to be heard on the floor. Even if it dies, it will pave the way for future proposed bills of a similar nature.

The sporting purposes clauses are anathema to the purpose of the Second Amendment.

If this bill passes, it will completely remove the anti's ability to run the old, "sportsmen don't like these weapons" / "you cant hunt with a _____" line.

 

[Sam1911]

Remember it only restricts the importation of firearms from foreign countries.

Not so! As pointed out, it also has implications for every single 20, 16, 12, 10, and 8 ga. shotgun in the nation!

 

[rromeo]

MAKster, this isn't 922(r).

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

What's the chance of this passing?

 

[N003k]

Huh...so upon effect the vast majority of shotguns become illegal...

But what are the odds they wouldn't just go back and modify the law again to re-legalize them before a court could rule on the laws?

I mean, it'd be an interesting thing to see happen due to the (presumably) unforeseen consequences (At least to the majority of those that vote for it), just not holding my breath on it even passing in the first place.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

ATF has a Curio and Relic list that recognizes that military guns are often owned more as collector's items than as weapons. The US Army has had civilian marksmanship programs for over a century encouraging persons eligible for volunteer or conscript military service to be familiar with military weapons and marksmanship. The preface to the the 1968 Gun Control Act states:

...it is not
the purpose of this title to place any undue
or unnecessary Federal restrictions or
burdens on law-abiding citizens with respect
to the acquisition, possession, or
use of firearms appropriate to the purpose
of hunting, trapshooting, target shooting,
personal protection, or any other lawful
activity, and that this title is not intended
to discourage or eliminate the private
ownership or use of firearms by lawabiding
citizens for lawful purposes...

Lawful traditional purposes for owning and using guns include self-defense and military preparedness training, collection as curio, relic or keepsake, as well as "sporting purposes" such as hunting, trapshooting, or target shooting.

I own some guns just because the designs look funky or oddball, or they have some history behind them. "Sporting purposes" is an arbitrary label, and goes back to that 1959 import restriction on WWII bolt-action surplus designed to protect the sporting rifle industry from the competition of sporterized and bubba-ized military surplus.

 

[Sam1911]

MAKster, this isn't 922(r).

More directly related to 925(3)

 

[dc dalton]

There seems to be some controversy as to whether this is a good bill or not. One person I know that studies law (but is not a lawyer) said this:

The only power they are taking away from the AG is the power to help us. All the strikes to US CODE TITLE 18 make it more restrictive, not less, by taking away the ability of the owner or the AG to claim non-applicability of a restrictive designation by saying the item will be used only for sporting purposes.

After re-reading the bill several times you really do have to wonder if it would help gun owners or hurt them.

 

[Sam1911]

Interesting. How does he not speak to the question of importation restrictions due to non-sporting classification?

To his point, that's exactly what I was saying up in posts 9 and 11.

 

[dc dalton]

Interesting. How does he not speak to the question of importation restrictions due to non-sporting classification?

To his point, that's exactly what I was saying up in posts 9 and 11.

I think he was looking at it generally and not to any specific point.

I will say there are valid points for and against this bill and I'm not 100% sure who's correct. I'm wondering if the rep has one thing in mind not realizing the other implications that might arise.

I found his Facebook page and am going to post and see exactly what his thoughts are.

 

[dc dalton]

I did find this press release on his web page:

http://dougcollins.house.gov/press-...nal-sporting-purpose-distinction-in-gun-laws/