DRMMR02 said:
How many quick-draw situations do you guys even think happen?
It's close to impossible to know. There are but a few hundred killings of felons by citizens every year (see the FBI UCR), but those have been questioned as the FBI apparently only reports
justifiable killings whereas some states report at least some killings under the heading of
excusable killings. I believe Clayton Cramer has written on this. Someone in here should know and have details.
There are an unknown, and presumably larger, number of citizens shooting but not killing felons.
Then there's the situation in which a citizen shoots at but does not hit the felon. Hard to guess whether that would be higher or lower than the two unknown figures above.
Aside from an occasion anecdotal example of details, in none of these unknown numbers do we know the time in which the shooting occurred.
DRMMR02 said:
I can't think of a single response in all 4 or 5 pages where a person needed to draw and fire a round in half a second.
Cops have. Granted, police work places them in harms way whereas the armed citizen must, or ought to try if possible, to withdrawal, retreat, etc. Cops are also carrying openly whereas armed citizens generally carry concealed and thus have the advantage of surprise.
DRMMR02 said:
I know everyone has this "I'm gonna need to draw and drop a line of vicious attackers in seconds" mindset, but honestly, do you really think that is going to happen?
If I KNEW it was gonna happen, I'd stay home, call 9-1-1, and grab a loaded rifle.
Since I don't even know whether I'm gonna need a gun, let alone in what fraction of a second I'll need it, I'd just assume not take chances.
I still see no advantage to carrying on an empty chamber. Carrying with a loaded chamber I have a theoretical advantage, should TSHF, but I've not yet heard any advantage, real or imagined, to empty chamber carry.
DRMMR02 said:
If you practice, you can draw and rack the slide in less than a second.
Short-stroking a shotgun, and jamming it up, is fairly easy to do. Under duress, if you friggin' need a gun and right now, racking the slide is just one more thing that one can screw up.
DRMMR02 said:
And unchambered weapon is completely safe from misfire.
Correction. Cooper's Rule #1 says All Guns Are Always Loaded. Almost sounds like you're attempting to justify one unsafe practice by a questionable carry practice.
DRMMR02 said:
And with some practice, one can drop whatever they have in their other hand, draw, rack, and be ready fire before what they were carrying hits the ground.
Some of us have small kids which means we sometimes have a small child in one arm, or a bag or stroller or whatever. Dropping what's in hand #2 isn't always an option. Might HAVE to be a one handed operation.
DRMMR02 said:
Those of you who have had to draw for real, did you need to draw and fire in one quick movement, or did you have half a second to chamber a round? Simple question.
Simple questions rarely have simple answers. Short answer is, I don't know.
The one time I came closest to drawing on someone, they were standing at one point about 12-15 feet from me. If they'd had a knife, and made a run at me, even drawing and firing and hitting the A-Zone and moving off the line of attack, I might well have still gotten stabbed. Throw in a slide rack and that's another 1/2 second or so.
Of the two times in which I "shot someone" in training (with Code Eagle rounds), in the second one it would not have mattered. A slide rack would have easily been possible.
But in the first encounter, it was over in about 4-5 seconds from the first to the last of the 10 or 12 shots fired (there were 3 of us, 1 BG and 2 students). Maybe I coulda racked the slide in time, but the other student definitely could not have. He had just enough time to draw, come up on target, and shoot.
DRMMR02 said:
And for myself, I can rack the slide a lot faster than I can take the safety off. So I leave the safety off and keep it unchambered
You must be danged slow with a safety or don't practice it. I've seen a lot of guys draw and fire with a lot of safety equipped firearms. 1911s, Berettas, Rugers, S&Ws, etc. I've yet to see ANYONE--regardless of their experience level so long as they even had some modest instruction in drawing, firing and reholstering a pistol--who was slowed down in a draw and fire exercise by having to disengage the safety. Safety is off by the time the gun is angled down at about 45 degrees while still rising up towards the target.
I've also watched a number of folks performing Tap/Rack and other malfunction clearance drills. I'm reasonable fast on the draw myself, and reasonably OK doing malfunction clearances. At
FAS-4, in a Draw and Fire speed drill, I beat out every other student, then the Senior Instructor, and then Marty Hayes. With that said, every person I've ever seen do a Tap/Rack drill or slide rack, even very experienced instructors, while fast is relatively very slow when compared to disengaging a safety.
IMHO, a slide rack adds upwards of about a half second, it requires two hands, it requires that both hands work together in a coordinated manner, and if you miss with the slide racking hand you cannot fire.
OTOH, also IMHO, disengaging a safety adds no time to one's draw and it's a small muscle thumb or finger movement done with the gun hand. If the non-shooting hand "misses" to get a two hand grip, one can still continue up on target and shoot one handed. One can also shoot from a retention position one handed and use the non-shooting hand to strike or push and create distance if the attack happens in close, and it likely will happen in close. 7 yards is probably the outer limit of where most any self defense shooting will happen. Inside 7 feet is much more likely. You probably will need every advantage.
Finally, no school of instruction would allow you to practice carrying safety off when using a safety equipped firearm. If the holster has retention straps, you must use them all. Even if it's an S3, and I've seen guys using an S3 draw, fire and hit the A-Zone at 7 yards in about 1.1 to 1.2 seconds with all the holster safeties engaged. If the gun has a safety, you must use it. There was either an LAPD cop or LASO deputy a few years back who drew his Beretta 92F and was unable to fire. He carried with the safety off, and practiced draw and fire. Well, Mr. Murphy and his danged laws had his way that day. The safety, at some point in time, got bumped on and the gun would not go boom. Fortunately, the cop's partner was able to fire. After that, almost any department that issued safety equipped firearms required it's officer to use the safety, practice draw-safety off-fire, and safety on reholstering.
A mechanical safety is a device that CAN fail, and failure is defined to include getting bumped on at the most inopportune time especially if one does not practice draw, safety off, fire.