Ever carried a Single Action revolver?

[jeepnik]

Before trusting your neck to an out-of-the-box Uberti there are some things you should know. They are an excellent buy for the money, but they are made to sell at an attractive price point, so something has to give, and does.

There is a little cam on the lower/right side of the hammer which works the cylinder bolt (the part that locks the cylinder in line with the bore). In the Colt this cam is a separate part, and as hard as a banker's heart. In the Uberti and other Italian clones the cam is part of the investment cast hammer, and neither is particularly hard. Since the tail end of the bolt is hard it doesn't take the cam long to wear, after which the lockwork goes out of time.

In older production the hands (the part that revolves the cylinder) are like the original Colt, with a spring made from thin flat-spring stock. They are fragile and tend to break. Newer Uberti revolvers have a plunger and coil spring. Make sure to find out which you have.

The cylinder bolt and trigger are tensioned by a flat spring, and the side that puts upward pressure on the bolt tends to break off over time, and the cylinder bolt also has a reputation for having the tail break off. Either failure will leave you with a locked cylinder that won't move.

All this sounds very dire, but obviously everything doesn't happen at once. My point is that the original Colt design (which Uberti faithfully copied) did not have a reputation for ruggedness, and the Uberti doesn't either. It is more then acceptable for the various non-weapon purposes it is usually used for, but I would find one questionable for serious defensive use, especially for one in law enforcement that must face additional risks.

One of the larger customer bases that buy and use Uberti revolvers are competitors in the cowboy action shooting games, and most of them don't baby their guns which see frequent and hard use. Gunsmiths that serve them have learned of various ways to improve the reliability of these guns. I suggest that you get some second opinions by going to this link:

www.sassnet.com

Or trade it and get a Ruger. Yea, you can break them, but it's a heck of a lot harder.

 

[Old Fuff]

If Man With No Name goes over to SASSNET the question of Rugers will without question come up. But right now he has the Uberti Cattleman and apparently likes it. My concern is not to talk him out of something he likes, but rather warn him that they're pitfalls, and that as it stands the revolver may not be satisfactory as a defensive weapon. With that knowledge he can go in whatever direction he wants.

 

[dondavis3]

In the '80's I carried a Colt SAA in .45 long colt when I bear hunted.

I would not today.

There are way too many much better choices IMHO

But I do like SAA Guns.

My Colt in .45 long colt



My Ruger Vaquero in .45



I still ike to shoot them from time to time.

 

[Jaymo]

Old Fuff brings up some very good points. I wonder if there is any reason I couldn't case harden the hammers of my Italian BP revolvers with Kasenit?
I think the Wolff wire trigger/bolt springs would be the best way to eliminate the likelihood of trigger/bolt spring breakage.
Wire spring or coil spring and plunger would be the most breakage resistant hand spring replacement.

I'd really like to get the Cimarron Thunderer or SAA Sheriff's model. I'd put Wolff springs in it before carrying it.

I wish I'd known about the Ruger New Vaquero Sheriff's size, when they were available. .44 Spl or .45 Colt in that size would make me giddy.
Like a Charter Bulldog, but heavier and less recoil. Plus, 6 shots in the Ruger.

 

[CraigC]

I've been shooting traditional, leaf sprung single actions for 25yrs and have only ever had one spring break. That was the hand spring on a friend's old, high mileage Colt Frontier Scout. Lots of lore and legend about the fragility of Colt's action but in the real world, failures are rare.

 

[Old Fuff]

The problems and issues with Italian copies of Colt Single Actions are well known within the SASS community, and a cottage industry of gunsmiths have sprung up to remediate them. I own and use Uberti-made revolvers and am quite satisfied with them for the purposes I use them for. However I wouldn't care to stake my life on one as it came out of the box.

I wonder if there is any reason I couldn't case harden the hammers of my Italian BP revolvers with Kasenit?

No there isn't, although you might want to start with new hammers. It's the best solution other then replacing most of the lockwork with Colt parts - which is very expensive.

I wish I'd known about the Ruger New Vaquero Sheriff's size, when they were available. .44 Spl or .45 Colt in that size would make me giddy.

I believe they are still available from Davidson's - at least in the round-butt configuration.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Yup. well.... Sorta. I cary around a NAA .22mag a lot.

 

[CraigC]

The problems and issues with Italian copies of Colt Single Actions are well known within the SASS community...

So are the various issues with Rugers. Nothing is bombproof. When you put that many miles on something, something will eventually break. Most of us don't put that many miles on a sixgun but a great many folks still use Colt's and replicas in CAS. I know some folks with tens of thousands of rounds through Italian replicas and they would probably disagree with your blanket assessment.

I wish I'd known about the Ruger New Vaquero Sheriff's size, when they were available. .44 Spl or .45 Colt in that size would make me giddy.

The Montado is rather widely available in .45Colt. Although I believe any .44Spl New Vaqueros will have to come from Lipsey's. The birdshead models are TALO exclusives.

 

[wheelyfun66]

The 44 Spec Sheriff model can be found on Gunbroker.com

There are usually only one or two available, and last I checked, the keyword for a search was "Ruger Vaquero 44" because when I typed in Ruger Vaq sheriff, nothing showed except "old" Vaquero Sheriff models, in 357 caliber.

I debated between the Sheriff in 44 and the Birdshead in 45ACP....

but just recently got the Birdshead!
(love it and am carrying it as I type this)

 

[dondavis3]

Where are pictures of some of these beautiful guns

 

[wheelyfun66]

Where are pictures of some of these beautiful guns

Been too busy shooting mine to take pics!
One of my primary missions is to get good pics of both revolver and holster...very soon!

 

[StrawHat]

I seriously doubt anyone carried a spare cylinder when C&B revolvers were prevelant. After switching out the cylinder, then you get to add the caps. Pretty sure it is much faster to carry a spare revolver. That switching cylinder is pure hollywood crap.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I used to hunt with a single action revolver when that was what I had. I had never carried it concealed.

 

[jeepnik]

I seriously doubt anyone carried a spare cylinder when C&B revolvers were prevelant. After switching out the cylinder, then you get to add the caps. Pretty sure it is much faster to carry a spare revolver. That switching cylinder is pure hollywood crap.

Actually, it was done, and the caps were already in place. True not as common as carrying a second, third or even fourth revolver, but it was done. This is an exercise in fun, anyway, so I'm going to run with it and have above mentioned "FUN".

 

[The Man With No Name]

Thanks for the responses and advice. I'll take a look at some of the things suggested. Some variance seems to exist on the opinion of reliability. If I feel it is an issue then I'll simply get a Ruger. I had a Vaquero the same year that Ruger released it but honestly prefer an old style gun. Not so much for the traditional extra clicks and loading notch but I just like seeing a firing pin mounted on the hammer. The fact that it makes the gun a 5 shooter vs. the Ruger 6 doesn't bother me in the least. All the lethal force encounters I've had were within less than 6 feet including one I had off duty so ultimate accuracy really isn't such a big deal but I just like an accurate gun so I'll be hard pressed to part with this Uberti now. A Ruger would have to equal it and my old Vaquero wasn't even close. Maybe the New Vaquero's are better in that regard or maybe I was just unlucky.

 

[Old Fuff]

You can have your cake and eat it...

A gunsmith can, if necessary, make some changes in your Uberti Cattleman that will increase reliability and have no negative affect on its accuracy. What is important is that you (or someone else) completely disassemble the revolver to see exactly what you have, or haven't as the case may be. After that you can decide what you want too do.

 

[StrawHat]

jeepnik,

Can you cite any references for carrying a charged and capped cylinder? In 40 years of reading diaries, newspaper accounts and obituaries, I have not been able to find a single instance. I am curious to see the source of your information.

 

[Old Fuff]

Can you cite any references for carrying a charged and capped cylinder? In 40 years of reading diaries, newspaper accounts and obituaries, I have not been able to find a single instance.

I agree that if carrying extrra loaded cylinders was done at all the practice was very rare (except in Hollywood of course). However I am aware of some Colt and Remington cased sets that included a spare, fitted cylinder.

But this does not necessarily mean they were carried capped and loaded.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

If Florida was open carry I might consider an SA that's modern like a Ruger. I've owned RSBH in .44 magnum and only got rid of them after I acquired a Ruger Redhawk .44 magnum with a 7.5".

When comparing older SAs that are still modern like Rugers to N-Frame Smith and Wessons in .45 ACP and .44 magnum (and Ruger Redhawks and SRH), it's often cheaper and easier to get a Ruger SA in either a Vaquero, Blackhawk, or Super Blackhawk, and I think that's partially the attraction to them for carry.

If I still had my Ruger Security Six I wouldn't trade it for a Ruger BH in .357 magnum, or if I got Ruger GP100 in 4" I wouldn't trade it for a Ruger BH in .357.

If I ever carried a SA It'd probably be as truck gun, for just in case emergencies, and it'd probably be a Ruger SBH 7.5" in .44 magnum sitting in lock case of my flatbed.

If you feel comfortable carrying an SA or are good enough with it, hey my hat is off to you, but if Wyatt Earp could have carried a Smith and Wesson N-Frame 625 in .45 Colt or ACP, I'd be willing to bet he'd have chosen it over his Colt Peacemaker.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I believe Billy the Kid carried a Colt double action revolver. The "Lightning". John Wesley Hardin, too.

Gunfighters are gonna carry the latest and greatest if they can. Anything to get an edge.

 

[Old Fuff]

but if Wyatt Earp could have carried a Smith and Wesson N-Frame 625 in .45 Colt or ACP, I'd be willing to bet he'd have chosen it over his Colt Peacemaker

.

Maybe, and then maybe not. In later years he explained that many frontier peace officers carried a long-barreled Colt because they often used it as a club to subdue a drunk but armed individual. A blow to the head above the ear and just under the hat brim would put them to sleep with no shooting being necessary.

Contrary to Hollywood, he and others like him were hired to keep the peace without having to do any shooting. The town fathers didn't want to get a wild-and-wooly reputation that might scare away settlers.

Top-break and hand ejector revolvers might have made better shooters, but lacked the ruggedness to be good bludgeons.

 

[CraigC]

Some Texas Rangers used SA's well into the 20th century. Some even without a reload. One was quoted in saying that if the five shots in his Colt were not enough to handle a situation, he would be guilty of sloppy peace officering.

 

[StrawHat]

I agree that if carrying extrra loaded cylinders was done at all the practice was very rare (except in Hollywood of course). However I am aware of some Colt and Remington cased sets that included a spare, fitted cylinder.

But this does not necessarily mean they were carried capped and loaded.

Old Fuff,

I recall reading that Colts would include a cylinder or two in shipments to the military. This was so if a cylinder burst, it could be repaired quickly and returned to service. I have not seen records indicating it was down with civilian sales. Like I said, I am merely curious. To me it seems odd, why would I take 12-30 seconds swapping cylinders when I can draw and fire a second revolver?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

The full lugged barrel of a S&W 625 should konk heads well, if necessary.

 

[Old Fuff]

When one of the U.S. military services placed an order for revolvers, one for additional spare parts was included. But they didn't issue extra cylinders in the field. There is no mention of the procedure in any manuals I've read, and no illustrations of any kind of "cylinder pouch". I've concluded that on an official basis there was no cylinder swapping. Individuals may have done differently, but I agree that carrying spare revolvers was the popular solution to making fast reloads.