Gas Pump Strategy

[sefus]

I feel like being a jerk and giving a big sarcastic Thank you to everyone who has ever given non conditional hand outs. It reinforces the behavior and is not a motivator to change a persons ways. Many need a reason to either continue their ways or make a concious effort to change their life for the better and they actually do want that reason to change but with the avalibility of those who just toss money, they have no reason to change. But what do I know, I dont have extensive experience working with low income and homeless populations or a degree in behavioral psychology and community planning...

 

[Kali Endgame]

Until a few years ago I would give hitchhikers rides, winter time give cash to bums, summer time buy them food. I've lost that soft spot for the less fortunate. Often times, the calamity is self induced and no amount of external help will fix the problem.

I've had a couple of those gas station/convience store experiences. Now I carry a handful of change and drop it if I need to. Amazing what clinking, shiny money does for a drug riddled mind. Saved me and possibly my sister in Sacramento a year ago. When the guy bent down to pick up the change, his shirt pulled up and I saw a handle. Then I saw the guy behind me and he dropped to the ground with his buddy. My sister was terrified and I would die to protect her, but didn't have to. The world needs more people like her.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

and on the flip side

you may have just given someone who needed a favor 6 bucks worth of gas.... he might really appreciate the help too. bed sitting somewhere telling his friends what a lifesaver you were completely oblivious to the fact that folks all over never met him are airing their paranoia.

if he was really interested in jaming you up you woulda got both guys.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

you and your family got home safe and it only cost $6. consider that a bargain...if you had to use force things would have been much worse. That being said, letting them get that close and giving them anything was probably a mistake....but if you learn from it, it was a cheap lesson.

 

[30 cal slob]

my gas pump strategy:

http://www.gasbuddy.com

 

[Taurus 66]

I cannot judge you for the actions you took mhuard, but I would not have given him any money just because he asks. Gun or no gun on me, I'm not afraid of beggars, though it is understood you did not want a confrontation with your family nearby, yet you took the softest approach to get rid of him.

Why should I just hand over something I worked for and for nothing in return? I'd at least get a window washing out of the deal, but he's not getting money for nothing. If he doesn't like me putting him to work, I'd just point and tell the beggar to try the guy filling his Honda.

"You could probably get twenty from him."

Gasoline stream ... don't ever do it! Don't even think about it!!! Reality never, or rarely ever, plays out like what you see in Hollywood.

 

[BigSoundRacing]

I have been asked a few times – I tell them that I don’t have an extra cash but I do have a handful of change in the car. “Wait there while I get it”

Now I’m inside the safety of my vehicle, I have distance and a moment to consider options.

I actually do keep a good sized bag of change in the car to support my Starbucks addictions. The zippered bag or a fist full of change can really contribute to the effectiveness of a landed punch if needed.

Be safe, BSR

 

[Geno]

Actual Event

That's funny! Most of these guys don't bother me, and are quite harmless. They stand around the parking lot and offer to wash your windshield. They open the door politely as you enter, then ask you for the change when you leave. In the area where I work, the gas station owners know these guys, and they broom the ones who are trouble. For my part, I always tell these gentlemen the truth, "I don't carry extra cash…I don’t even carry a credit card!"

About three years back, a poor guy was breaking my heart with his, "I haven't had any food in 2 days..." story. Now, keep in mind the mere possibility that what he is saying might be true. I was raised a Christian; you turn your back on a starving man! Also, I was indoors and perfectly safe. The only people in the gas station were the gentleman and me, and I was carrying my MCPL.

Gentleman: "Man, can you spare $5.00...I haven't eaten in 2 days!"

Me: (I pondered it for a second and said) "Okay...pick out anything you want; I'll pay. But, you have to open the package here and now, so I know you won't return it to buy booze or tobacco."

Gentleman: "Man, that's junk food! That'll kill you! I eat down the road."

(Thinking to myself: Only thing down the road is a bar and a liquor store)

Me: Okay, there's a McDonalds across the street. I'll drive over there. You walk over and meet me at the end of the drive thru. I'll buy you a meal...anything you want."

Gentleman: "Man, I can't eat McDonald's food; it make me sick. I need healthy, home-cooked-type food."

Me: "Listen, if you hadn't had any food in two days, you would have jumped at the offer to buy you any snack in this store! You certainly would have accepted a hot meal at McDonalds. Besides, if McDonalds’ is good enough for me to eat, it's good enough for you. (Pause) See…you don't want money for food! You want money so you can go buy booze, tobacco or drugs. I'm not gonna support your habit! (Pause) Last chance...you want a hot meal or not? I'm a Christian, and so I can't just turn my back and abandon you! If you need a meal, I'm gonna make sure you get a hot meal and a beverage. Do you need a meal, or not?"

Gentleman: (Crap-eatting grin) "No, man...I'm good."

As I leave, I look at the owner, and he's shaking his head at the gentleman.

 

[karz10]

I think the OP did fine, did what he thought was best at the time, doesn't mean he has to do it the same way next time. I feel for the story, because I felt like I have fewer options when I have my family with me, I feel less flexible or versatile, regarding my options in a confrontation. This is one of the things that led me to searching for information on boards like this, to get some firearms, and have begun to practice and get a CCW.

- As others have said, I'm learning that distance is your friend. If you give someone money though, getting close to that individual, particularly a relatively functional person and someone younger than a senior citizen, probabilities are favorable that the individual is *capable* of causing you harm, and your ability to escape or defend yourself is greatly diminished if they are close enough to grab you, or get the drop on you before you can draw if it came to that. A guy recently posted on that, how even though he was armed, the thief got the drop on him and took his gun and cash in the process. So, I think I would still tell them to stop, even if I wanted to hear their story out, and throw them whatever I was gonna give them, but I'm reluctant to give money anymore...

- Sometimes listening to your spirit, if you are a spiritual person, will let you know if someone is in legitimate need, but I agree FAR too often these people have brought some of their situation on themselves, and/or are not even really in need. And as far as I'm concerned, somewhere along the way, I felt like if I owed anyone anything, i.e. credit card, car payment, maybe even a mortgage, and I haven't met my savings goals yet, especially if I have a family, what business do I have giving money to anyone, let alone someone who has not been checked out as having a legitimate need. Sure in this case it was only $6, but what if that happened everytime you stopped somewhere like walking down the street in (insert large metro city name here) and getting hit up every 5 minutes. One trip to NY and walking about in Manhattan and traveling public transit is enough to turn you off to panhandlers for the rest of your life.

- Gas video, yeah women are far more likely to have this problem too, because they (according to reports) are more likely to get in and out of the vehicle while fueling, thus increasing their chances to get a static charge as they approach their pump/tank, but I try to remember to ground myself out if I do anything other than stand there w/ my hand on the pump. I wouldn't want to shoot a gun next to a running fuel pump into my tank, but I would do it if I had to. I think I would already begin backing away from the pump/tank if someone was approaching me like that now that I've thought about it, just in case.

* Funny story, I got so tired of people approaching me like this at gas stations, I almost insulted a store clerk recently. This lady was approaching me directly w/ a swift pace, looking right at me, only car on that side of the pumps, and she was dressed in a hoody and dark pants, could barely see her face, but it was chilly and windy out, I thought for sure she was about to ask for money, but she just wanted to make sure the pump was working ok for me, they had some slow pump problems that night...that was close, I think implying a woman is a homeless begger is almost as bad as asking her when she's due while she's not even pregnant. I really couldn't tell though, all I saw was hoody and dark pants, couldn't see her hair or hands, or get a good look at her face, so she could have been anybody.

* Another funny gas station story, when I lived in MI, these two girls I knew from Grand Rapids, were like 19 yo or so, went to Detroit for a concert, stopped to get gas, dude in a mechanic outfit came up to the window, asked em how much, they said $10, he left for a sec, came back and took their $10, they started their car, still empty, so they went inside to complain they paid the attendant but he didn't pump any gas, you guessed it, it was a self-serve only station, guy just scammed em for $10. Considering how naive they were, they had no business being in Detroit alone, and were lucky to learn a valuable lesson so cheaply...but it was funny at the time

Karz

 

[terry264]

mhuard, I think you did exactly the right thing in this situation, all things considered. With your family there and like you said 20+ more by the Honda close by. How many of them might have been armed or had some kind of weapon close by? You did good man!

 

[hagar]

The best friend of my wife's sister in Waukesha, lost her husband last week due to the same kind of thing. This in the wonderful state of Wisconsin with no legal way of carrying concealed.

My sister in law commented to my wife before that I am "paranoid" for carrying a gun in AZ/SC, and that Wisconsin is a safe place, thank goodness nobody can carry here. Wonder if this will change her mind? It did change mine about carrying, legally or not, in WI.

I NEVER give strangers what they ask for, unfortunately in today's world it can mostly cause you harm. Pulling out your wallet and digging for a buck? You must be crazy. Your shooting hand is occupied, and you are showing them what you have. I get real aggresive, real quick with people asking for handouts. Fortunately for me, I don't live in WI, and I never take more than 5 steps from my weapon, if I don't have it on me.

Do a search on yahoo for "gas station shooting Milwaukee" and you will be surprised at how common that is.

MILWAUKEE -- Three people are in custody after a man was shot and killed at a gas station on the city's northwest side Wednesday afternoon.

It happened at a Citgo station near Sherman Boulevard and Capitol Drive at about 3 p.m., police said.

Police said 44-year-old Scott Huggins, of Waukesha, was pumping gas when he was approached by a 16-year-old boy. He demanded money. Police said the victim put up a fight and was shot multiple times in the stomach.

Witnesses said Huggins stumbled toward the door of the gas station and collapsed. Several people came to the man's aid and performed CPR, investigators said.

Huggins died later at the hospital.

Milwaukee police said that an off-duty sheriff's detective was driving past the scene, heard the gunshots and saw the alleged shooter running away.

The detective followed him in his car, jumped out, chased the teenager down, tackled him and held him until police arrived.

Police took two other teenagers into custody who witnesses said were nearby with the boy.

Police are still questioning them about their involvement.

Police said they are not looking for additional suspects in this case.

Thursday, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett released a statement about the homicide.

"I am using every resource available to put more cops on the street, put people to work and keep kids in school and out of trouble. But this shooting underscores the need to get illegal guns off the streets and particularly, out of the hands of young people," Barrett said. "I need to know where the illegal guns are coming from, get those guns out of our neighborhoods and keep criminals from firing them at potential victims."

 

[mhuard]

Thank you for all of the responses. I have since changed some of my refueling habits...

Another possible change is my S&W .38 5-shot.... When I run through the possible scenarios that could have unfolded, I think I might prefer to have a larger capacity. Of course, caliber and capacity have been discussed MANY times before and I'll not go down that road with this thread.

Thanks again.

mhuard

 

[S&Wfan]

I had a terrible situation happen in Macon in the winter of 1990.

Our family had recently been transferred to a small central GA town and that night we took all three boys to hear a Christian concert (Sandi Patti) at the Macon Colluseum.

I'd worked late that night and the family was ready to go when I hurried home to make the 50 mile drive. We took my wife's station wagon and she said, "You aren't gonna take that GUN with you tonight, are you. Stupid me, this was the last time I let her do that!

Taking off in the wagon, I discovered the gas was low. "Honey, there should be plenty to get to Macon." WRONG . . . by the time we got there, barely in time for the concert, the car was on fumes, but I didn't want the kids to miss the concert so we decided to get it later. BAD IDEA.

After the concert, traffic control forced everyone to turn AWAY from the Interstate, and into a bad part of Macon. As luck would have it, nothing was open in this part of town that night for gas . . . and I didn't know the area yet!

We kept driving and the area got rougher and rougher. Finally, we spied a 7-11 type "Shop and Rob" across from a housing area or something. The road had been widened so you could pull up to the pumps but faced a guard rail . . . so you had to back out.

I got out to pump, feeling bad about the area . . . and no one was around . . . except when I caught the motion of a guy to the side of the store, peering around the side of the dumpster. Soon, two more pairs of eyes peeked out.

They were the typical "perp" types. Dark knit caps, long dark overcoats . . . you get the picture. I would actually have to walk to the store to pay cash.

Then, I could see 'em talking, and then the tallest one started out from behind the dumpster, heading directly for me, as the other two peered out.

Oh Schidt, I thought. The car was pointing away from that area and my wife was clueless to the situation, as were my three young boys.

As the guy got closer he spotted my still unchanged out-of-state tag.

"Hey Main . . . you be from Flaah-Dah, huh?"

"No, I live here now, I just haven't changed my tag yet," I replied trying to figure out what to do.

He kept closing the gap and I knew what was getting ready to go down. 20 feet, 15, 10 feet, 7 feet.

Then, an old car pulled up to the other side of the pump and a off-duty cop, still in uniform, got out and started pumping gas.

At that exact second, the guy says, "Have a nice vacation, Main," and he hauled ass in a real hurry.

I now carry concealed, and no telling what would have happened to me and my family that night if that young, 6'3" dude had jumped little old 5'9" me . . . and then had his three friends sprint to the scene to participate.

I learned a LOT of things that night!

 

[karz10]

S&W Fan - I hate it when they force you a bad direction out of a major function like that, with no warning going in which way you'll be going, and like you said, they point you 'away' from the Interstate, where anyone not intimately familiar with the area could get completely lost.

Glad it worked out for you, sounds like someone was looking out for you all that night, maybe something to do with what you all were doing that night.

Karz

 

[karz10]

I don't know what it is, but I guess I've just been more aware lately, and giving thought to things like this. I already posted about the hand outs and stuff, and being increasingly annoyed at this in my area lately...

But I've also been noticing a violent trend here. For what it's worth, here are just three stories in neighboring counties on either side of the line near where I live where some sort of handout or person in need issue turned violent...




Man, it seems like there's a story every week now about beggers, or alleged beggers are turning violent....

Check out some of these examples:

Cleveland County - Elderly couple attacked by man in their driveway asking for money/change:www.wsoctv.com/news/11439599/detail.html This poor woman was recovering from brain surgery, and they didn't do anything to provoke this guy, they were just going home.

Charlotte - Couple robbed and woman raped by guys standing around a truck w/ raised hood: www.crimeincharlotte.com/2007/03/couple-robbed-and-raped-helping-others.html This is unclear whether the couple 'stopped' to help them, or were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and would have been forced at gunpoint/shot at, no matter what they did, but it's a horrible story.

York County SC - 21 yo man (w/ girlfriend in vehicle) stops to help roadside motorist, helps push motorists vehicle to gas station, and gets robbed by motorist: charlotte.com/205/story/66812.html This guy admits he'll be more careful, and maybe you can argue he shouldn't have stopped to help (esp w/ his GF in the vehicle at 2 AM) or he could have handled it differently, but still, the gall of this motorist/robber, to get this guy to help push his vehicle and still rob him...

Anyway, it was kind of related to the topic, especially the last one where a guy got pushed to a gas station and still robbed the guy, and the first one started out as someone trying to appear innocent and in need, and the middle story is just horrible, regardless of whether or not that couple had options to flee or not, it's unclear, but they certainly didn't do anything to deserve what happened to them...

Yeah, I think I'll try to keep my distance from anyone approaching me for a handout even more diligently than before...

Karz

 

[helpless]

Sounds like you did good. The guy was wrong to approach like he did. Hopefully he doesn't make a habit out of it. Like a previous posted mentioned, this kid just might have really appreciated it and told his friends how some nice guy helped him out.

Doc2005 said:

That's funny! Most of these guys don't bother me, and are quite harmless. They stand around the parking lot and offer to wash your windshield. They open the door politely as you enter, then ask you for the change when you leave. In the area where I work, the gas station owners know these guys, and they broom the ones who are trouble. For my part, I always tell these gentlemen the truth, "I don't carry extra cash…I don’t even carry a credit card!"

About three years back, a poor guy was breaking my heart with his, "I haven't had any food in 2 days..." story. Now, keep in mind the mere possibility that what he is saying might be true. I was raised a Christian; you turn your back on a starving man! Also, I was indoors and perfectly safe. The only people in the gas station were the gentleman and me, and I was carrying my MCPL.

Gentleman: "Man, can you spare $5.00...I haven't eaten in 2 days!"

Me: (I pondered it for a second and said) "Okay...pick out anything you want; I'll pay. But, you have to open the package here and now, so I know you won't return it to buy booze or tobacco."

Gentleman: "Man, that's junk food! That'll kill you! I eat down the road."

(Thinking to myself: Only thing down the road is a bar and a liquor store)

Me: Okay, there's a McDonalds across the street. I'll drive over there. You walk over and meet me at the end of the drive thru. I'll buy you a meal...anything you want."

Gentleman: "Man, I can't eat McDonald's food; it make me sick. I need healthy, home-cooked-type food."

Me: "Listen, if you hadn't had any food in two days, you would have jumped at the offer to buy you any snack in this store! You certainly would have accepted a hot meal at McDonalds. Besides, if McDonalds’ is good enough for me to eat, it's good enough for you. (Pause) See…you don't want money for food! You want money so you can go buy booze, tobacco or drugs. I'm not gonna support your habit! (Pause) Last chance...you want a hot meal or not? I'm a Christian, and so I can't just turn my back and abandon you! If you need a meal, I'm gonna make sure you get a hot meal and a beverage. Do you need a meal, or not?"

Gentleman: (Crap-eatting grin) "No, man...I'm good."

As I leave, I look at the owner, and he's shaking his head at the gentleman.

I loved this story, Good for you. I always help homeless people out, as long as they dont have a sign, or beg. The ones that seem to have to much pride to ask. Those are the people who seem to really appreciate it. One time, when it was really cold (for florida) I gave a needy man my heavy coat and left a 20 in the jacket pocket, I told him there is some money in the pocket, I told him that I worked very hard for it and I would appreciate it if he spent it on food.

He actually handed the Jacket back to me and told me that his (long sleeve shirt) was fine and thanked me anyway. I had to actually sit the jacket on his bag next to him.

 

[velojym]

I drove 18 wheelers for about 13 years, and heard many many stories. Many beggars assume truckers are suckers for hard luck cases, I guess.
One guy claimed he had a truck on the other side of an interchange, stranded on the ramp with his wife and kid aboard. He just needed money for diesel.
I asked him what kind of truck he had. He couldn't answer. I put out a call on the CB... the ramp was empty. With my hand on my .357, I politely asked him to get off my running board.

Ft Worth TX, hooker jumped into my cab as I reloaded my revolver (just cleaned it), hooking the front sight with her belly button. I've never seen bigger eyes... she backed out carefully and teleported. She'd evidently jumped in my truck to avoid a nearby police cruiser.

A few years later, a guy named Will was riding an old Schwinn road bike between towns, doing odd jobs for motels and churches for room and board. I bought him lunch and a couple of tires in exchange for some stories about his travels. Perfect example of capitalism: we both got something out of the deal.

Within the last year, I was tracking a subject in a rough neighborhood (out of trucks by then), and was nearly surrounded by over a dozen gangstas. They'd blocked the road ahead of me, and a lime green Caprice was rapidly making its way toward my six. Since I traveled to the People's Republic of Illinois quite a bit, I was unarmed. I abandoned my subject and got the hell out of dodge while I could. After that, I bought my XD45acp.

At a gas station, I'll have my keys in hand, thumb near the safety on my attached pepper spray. No sparks, no permanent damage.
I won't let anyone get close, and I don't carry cash or credit cards.