Gun Haters

[Ru4real]

The problem is "we the people" now believe the government is here to protects us. What a scam politicians have going; take tax dollars to get paid with no need to succeed; they simply say problems are "difficult to solve" and "we the people" buy the excuses.

End all taxation associated with schools at the federal, state and local levels. Recent events show this is where we MUST start.

Schools as businesses will improve our schools by ensuring graduates would be good and knowledgeable "citizens of we the people" and business would do it safely to our satisfaction. If not, we simply take our money set aside for schooling our kids to a better school.

Guaranteed this will solve school shootings in 20 years from when we start. Then we focus on care for our elders.

 

[PabloJ]

That same "entertainment" is sold/viewed/etc. around the world.

Yet they don't have the same issues as us. It's definitely something else.

It is remarkably easy to see that the causes are breakdown of morals/values along with easy access to firearms and ammunition. In the end the only affordable option open to politicians will be reduction of easy access to guns and ammunition.

Since this is a firearms forum my advice to all is to be good Americans by accepting mass murder to defend an individual right to bear arms in the name of personal freedom.

 

[PabloJ]

Personally I would not mind paying little more in taxes and gun/ammo purchasing fees to help secure our public schools so our kids could go to school to learn and become valued members or our society. Anyone else? Or are we going with .....accepting mass murder to defend.....?

 

[MedWheeler]

Accepting mass murder to defend the second amendment? I'm not sure where you're reading that suggestion. If your suggestion is to repeal the amendment (you know, the "individual right to bear arms") in order to reduce "mass murder", you might be on to something, in the short run, at least.

However, I cannot think of many countries with a one-hundred-plus year history of public disarmament that has not gone on to become responsible for more deaths of its citizens than in all American school shootings over that period. On top of that, other types of violent crimes in even more-recently disarmed nations have increased dramatically.

Also, why should it only fall upon gun owners to fund school security? Are there not any children of non-owners also in those schools who would benefit from any such improvements?

I have a hard time believing you and Diane have the immediate solution, and the only obstacle to it has been the illogical and unreasonable passions of tens of millions of gun owners (and if so may gun owners really are illogically and unreasonably passionate, wouldn't we have far more mass shootings? After all, that's a LOT of guns out there.)

 

[Bigmike79]

If one’s skin is black, they don’t have to go back very far at all.

You have to go back pretty far if we're talking about legal stuff. A black kid in today's society may be treated with more respect than his grandparents did, but his grandparents still had more freedoms from an actual legal and societal perspective. Someone that is 50 years old today, grew up in 70's and 80's. Someone that grew up in that era of any race in the United States faced less laws and regulations than someone today.

Honestly, I think it could be argued that black men 100 years ago had more freedoms than they do today. I'm not saying that they had it better than they do today at all, but from a legal perspective, the government actually had less control over their lives than today.

 

[Bigmike79]

Won't necessarily disagree that we are all headed for the deep slide into liberal control, but is 39% is a big percentage for Clinton in Boise? However, Trump got 48% and that is not bad, considering Trump was far from the candidate of choice for people in ID. However, they still kept to their red state identification and overall gave him 60%.

Considering what a polarizing figure she is, 39% is a big percent. Had the Dems ran a less flawed candidate I think they could have had a shot at Boise. I have no doubt that Boise will go blue in the next few election cycles. I don't think Idaho as a state will flip for at least another 20 years or more. If conservatives from states like CA, OR, and WA start retiring in ID at the same rate liberals from those states are coming to Boise, ID could remain conservative much longer.

As for Trump not being the candidate of choice for for people in ID, that only holds true in a primary. Trump was a decent candidate for ID in the general because he did well with a lot of centrists and libertarian types. Idaho is loaded with non-religious conservatives when compared to other more conservative states. Trump did well with these types.

 

[tark]

The ani-gun folks will eventually win as will the left in general.

I think it's gonna be the other way around.

Look at all these scandals going on in the FBI, the DOJ, Uranium one, and Hill's E-mails. And don't forget the Clinton Foundation. What do all of these have in common?

They all point to criminal activity by Democrats, and the fingers point all the way to the Obama White House. I'm not sure the Democratic party will survive this at all.

As to school shootings, there is a simple, cheap, easy way to help cut down on the number of casualties should a shooter begin firing. A way that even an anti-gun teacher (most of them are) would readily embrace.

PEPPER SPRAY!!

Manufacture a special model for the purpose with a thirty foot squirt (like wasp and hornet killer) and distribute one to every teacher. Put them in the hallways, like fire extinguishers, which themselves make a pretty good deterrent. If the perp is wearing a gas mask, he won't be able to see out of it after a face full of red dye spray. When he removes his mask, you squirt him again. That stuff will stop a shooter in his tracks as fast as a bullet, and you capture the maggot alive so he can be questioned.

 

[Deanimator]

Let's say you own two dogs.

Every day, dog A takes a dump on the carpet. Every time he does, you give him a treat.

Assume that dog B isn't blind or especially dumb (for a dog).

Which is more likely:

1. The dog doesn't take a dump on the carpet.
2. The dog does take a dump on the carpet.

In every respect, you'd be TRAINING dog B to soil the carpet.

Virtually EVERY one of these mass murderers (apart from some of the Islamists) has been a malignant narcissist who craves attention and is willing to do ANYTHING to get it.

• What do the murderers want? - Attention.
• What do the murderers get? - Attention.
• How do they get it? - Mass murder.

Virtually EVERY one of these mass murderers has been LAVISHED with media attention, and in some cases SYMPATHY. They are treated like rock stars. The most recent has gained more attention in two days than Mick Jagger has had in two YEARS.

The media, by REWARDING mass murder insures its repetition and TRAINS malignant narcissists to kill the innocent. Why? MONEY.

"Blood money" and the NRA and gun makers? Compared to ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and MSNBC they're pikers.

 

[carsten1911]

You are spot on, Deanimator!

Yes, there is a reason certain countries face a certain regularity with those tragedies happening and repeating...and certain countries do NOT face these tragedies.
As you correctly pointed out the key are the media.
In Switzerland the press realise their responsibility and do not glamourize mass murderers.

The effect is of course unheard of...because concerning this topic no news is good news, at least for "decent people".

But "decent people" should be put on the list for endangered species.

Greetings
Carsten

 

[MidRoad]

The ani-gun folks will eventually win as will the left in general.

Look at a state like CA. That will be most of the United states in 50 years. There will be pockets of rural areas that will still be conservative, but they will be ruled with an iron fist by large metro areas where all the votes come from just like rural CA.

Even states like Idaho or Alaska will become liberal nanny states eventually as our cities continue to grow. Boise ID went big for Clinton in 2016 and is becoming more liberal by the day due to transplants coming in, seniors checking out, and an extremely liberal educational system. Eventually Boise will become both large enough and blue enough to speak for the rest of Idaho just like Vegas speaks for Nevada or Denver Speaks for Colorado.

Enjoy these times my friends because they're not going to last. The Internet, national news, and the educational system have changed the game. Generation-x got the ball rolling on hating this country and everything it stands for. God help us when the Millennials come to power. They not only hate America as a collective whole.........they hate themselves. This country will be essentially given away without a fight in my grandchildren's lifetime. What a shame.....

I may be a millennial,but I sure as hell don't think like that. Or share the same views as the majority of my generation. It's a sad day when one is ashamed of their generation. I do what I can to sway the ignorant thoughts of my peers. Even my woman, over the past four years I've really opened her eyes. She even voted for Trump and she's from a family with liberal views(very nice honest people,and NOT anit gun ) .

 

[Ranald]

Yep, because a NAZI-like approach works so well..........NONE of those ideas address the CAUSE, only the EFFECTS, and until you fix the cause, you will never fix the effects. All of the schools in my area, when driving by - if you didn't know it was a school - you'd think it was a prison.........

Chain link fencing and razor wire.... Oh, wait, that would emphasize the "prison look"...

 

[Ranald]

The alternative is that as a nation we need to start acting like communities again, true communities support each other and help each other when needed. We have become a spectator society, we watch things happen, we watch warning signs in people and assume that somebody else will take care of it. Or even worse in the younger generation, they are so worried about catching the latest viral video on their phone that they actively watch horrible things happen to people while they record it. We are far more concerned with our favorite sports teams and what is happening on the latest television show that we have no idea what our neighbors are doing, or how they are doing, or if we could help somebody out of a tough spot.

In the most recent shooting there was every warning sign you could hope for, up to and including posting on the internet that he was going to kill people, Nobody did anything He had disciplinary issues in school, instead of trying to find the root cause and helping him they expelled him. He was an orphan whose mother had died 5 months ago, social services did nothing to make sure he was okay, did nothing to help him, it appears did nothing to see if there was anything at all they could do.

Society failed and people died. But at least everybody got to watch the Superbowl, they got to watch whatever the latest reality television show is, they got to post pictures of every meal they ate for the last 3 months on Instagram. All while this person living among them needed help badly, was calling out for help and was ignored.

Fixing that is the alternative.

^^^^^^^^^THIS!!!!^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!

 

[Bigmike79]

I think it's gonna be the other way around.

Look at all these scandals going on in the FBI, the DOJ, Uranium one, and Hill's E-mails. And don't forget the Clinton Foundation. What do all of these have in common?

They all point to criminal activity by Democrats, and the fingers point all the way to the Obama White House. I'm not sure the Democratic party will survive this at all.
.

In the long term it's pretty much inevitable that the left will win. We have an exploding underclass in this country that breeds like rabbits.

Outside of Mormon families, it's just not very common for people that have their **** together to have four or five kids these days. It's a numbers game. I don't want to turn it into a race thing, but go to any grade school in a somewhat metro area. It will blow your mind. Those kids are being programmed to hate the Republican party, NRA, and the big bad white man in general. Sure, some will see through it, but it won't be enough. The United states is going to be an interesting place in 50 years.

 

[dekibg]

Incidents like this cannot be prevented. That's just a fact of life. The horse is out of the barn on guns (millions of AR-15's and the like extant) and the horse is also out of the barn regarding crazy people. We're just going to have to live with X number of incidents annually. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to crassly make political hay out of the situation. They're either hopelessly naive or hopelessly hypocritical.

While I will be the first one to admit that I don't have a right answer to the issue right now, your answer and attitude towards it - is a horrible one in my opinion.
Please don't share it outside of gun community.
Americans ( including a good portion of us, gun owners) will never accept massacres of school children as a '' new normal" .
Hopefully your family or anyone you know will never experience what just happened in Florida.
some of my friends that are gun owners ( but interested in hunting only and/or basic self-defense), are asking me sometimes when we have range sessions - what do I really need all the guns I own for ?
Every time a tragedy like this happens, some of those gun owners are willing to support law changes ( don't forget that they have voting rights, too - plus all the people that really hate guns or are afraid of them).
They look at me ( and you) as somebody who is using 2A just as an excuse to maintain a hobby of shooting these military style looking rifle.
Your tough .... attitude is not helping 2A.
p.s.
please don't reply with that worn-out comparison of cars and guns , makes us look stupid.
while they are both " inanimate objects" , cars are really designed for transportation only.

 

[AlexanderA]

your answer and attitude towards it - is a horrible one in my opinion.

Horrible yes, but it's the truth. We have reached a point in this country where we have an intractable problem. Any proposed solutions -- be they more gun laws, more mental health laws, fortifying schools, hiring armed guards -- would tend to make matters worse, not better. We're going to have to accept X number of school shooting fatalities, just as we accept X number of traffic accident fatalities, and X number of combat casualties when we go to war. All of these are unfortunate, but they happen. Life is a lottery, and at any moment you can end up with the losing ticket. There are no guarantees. Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad tidings.

 

[dekibg]

Alexander, if I could pick, I would probably focus on mental health laws to prevent future tragedies.
But , here is my fear for gun ownership:
- Obama became a president b/c general voting population ( not hardcore Republicans or Democrats) got tired of 8 years of George W's presidency and did not want to see another Republican candidate as a possible extension of his presidency
-Trump became a president b/c general voting population ( not hardcore Republicans or Democrats) got tired of 8 years of Obama's presidency and did not want to see another Democratic candidate as possible extension of his presidency
Similarly, with these school shootings we may get to the tipping point where general voting population will get really tired of it, and will support very, very strict gun laws that we will not like .
Then, all those chest-thumping '' bro dudes" will really have their opportunity to say their own version of " Molon Labe"

 

[CamaroDMD]

Horrible yes, but it's the truth. We have reached a point in this country where we have an intractable problem. Any proposed solutions -- be they more gun laws, more mental health laws, fortifying schools, hiring armed guards -- would tend to make matters worse, not better. We're going to have to accept X number of school shooting fatalities, just as we accept X number of traffic accident fatalities, and X number of combat casualties when we go to war. All of these are unfortunate, but they happen. Life is a lottery, and at any moment you can end up with the losing ticket. There are no guarantees. Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad tidings.

I disagree with this. I think a solution could be found...but I think it's going to take work and time (something that a lot of American's are unwilling to do). It's not as simple as "more gun laws" or "more mental health laws" or anything like that. We as a society need to identify where the real problem is. I have said it before and I personally believe that the national view of mental health is playing into the issue. I'm a healthcare provider...and when I see someone in my office who marks on their chart "history of psychiatric treatment" the first thing I think is "oh great, a crazy person." I'm a doctor...and I think that to myself and that is so wrong of me to do. We need to look at mental health illnesses as an illness just like any other. We need to spend the time to develop treatments that work (which is not just pumping them full of drugs) and as a people teach ourselves that no stigma should go with it.

I honestly believe that if we did a better job of treating mental illness (and that includes reducing the stigma so people actually want help) I think it will go a long way to helping this problem. Will it solve it...no. But I truly believe it will help.

The problem is...it's a lot of work. It's a lot of uncertainty and it's not a hot button political issue. It's so much easier for our "leaders" to debate the merits of gun control and the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Deanimator]

Then, all those chest-thumping '' bro dudes" will really have their opportunity to say their own version of " Molon Labe"

 

[Walkalong]

I disagree with this. I think a solution could be found..

If they will stop blaming guns and work on real methods to both curb this sort of thing and protect schools should it happen, yes, no doubt.

When the Israeli's had issues with terrorists killing kids in their schools they covertly armed people in the schools. Just people in pain clothes. No one knew who was armed and who was not. It did not stop terrorism, but it got it out of the schools.

 

[Deanimator]

please don't reply with that worn-out comparison of cars and guns , makes us look stupid.
while they are both " inanimate objects" , cars are really designed for transportation only.

The Cugnot, the first motor vehicle, was designed as an artillery prime mover for the French army... of Louis XV.

How well would the invasion of France in 1914 gone for the French if they hadn't had vehicles to move troops to the front when they were needed?

How would the invasion of France in 1940 gone for the Germans without armored vehicles to penetrate the French and Belgian lines, and trucks to allow the infantry to keep up?

Some people are simply bedeviled by history and its lessons...

 

[Deanimator]

If they will stop blaming guns and work on real methods to both curb this sort of thing and protect schools should it happen, yes, no doubt.

When the Israeli's had issues with terrorists killing kids in their schools they covertly armed people in the schools. Just people in pain clothes. No one knew who was armed and who was not. It did not stop terrorism, but it got it out of the schools.

Anti-gun cultists simply don't care.

They don't care about children.

They don't care about mass murderers.

They just want to forcibly take as many firearms from as many NON-criminals as possible.

In the words of dirt napping anti-gun cultist Howard Metzenbaum (D-Ohio), they don't care about crime, they just want to get the guns.

NO, I REFUSE.

 

[Walkalong]

Anti-gun cultists simply don't care.

They don't care about children.

They don't care about mass murderers.

They just want to forcibly take as many firearms from as many NON-criminals as possible.

In the words of dirt napping anti-gun cultist Howard Metzenbaum (D-Ohio), they don't care about crime, they just want to get the guns.

Oh, I get it, I'm on your side, and I too refuse to compromise any more, it's some of the folks who are just getting started in the pro gun battle that need to know the history and why us old farts have drawn that line in the sand.

 

[CamaroDMD]

Anti-gun cultists simply don't care.

They don't care about children.

They don't care about mass murderers.

They just want to forcibly take as many firearms from as many NON-criminals as possible.

In the words of dirt napping anti-gun cultist Howard Metzenbaum (D-Ohio), they don't care about crime, they just want to get the guns.

NO, I REFUSE.

They care about children and mass murder...just like we do. They just have a misguided notion of the cause.

 

[George P]

They care about children and mass murder...just like we do. They just have a misguided notion of the cause.

They have NO CLUE as to the cause; they believe - in this instance - that blaming the tool and not the person is the answer......Why? Because Bloomberg, Soros, Pelosi, et al tell them so............... The majority of these snowflakes can't name all 50 states, let alone their capitals (like I had to know in the 5th grade), have no clue what "civics" mean, let along studying them and just want to be "liked" by "friends" they have never met on their social media sites....

 

[Walkalong]

They care about children and mass murder...just like we do. They just have a misguided notion of the cause.

Maybe, but they just use them to push gun control which they know won't help. They are not stupid, just crafty and dangerous.