How do you tell a LEO that you are armed at a traffic stop

[mljdeckard]

Here is what I tell my students, and it applies pretty much ONLY to Utah. Maybe AZ, but I haven't had occasion to try it there.

You aren't required to disclose. Do it anyway. Some agencies in Utah have access to the database indicating whether or not you are a permit holder, some don't. But what happens is, if the cop pulls your info, and you didn't inform, he will likely give you a ticket. If you DID tell him, he probably won't. Of course, the best solution to all of this is to develop driving habits that minimize the chances you will get pulled over in the first place. Carrying is part of living a risk-averse lifestyle, it should be in ALL aspects of your life. The reason I say this is only fur Utah, is because I know that by and large, Utah cops are very supportive of carry, and won't use it as a reason to abuse you in any way. I can't recommend that in other states.

If you are pulled over, put your hands at the top of the wheel with your fingers spread. When greeted, say; "Officer, I am permitted to carry, and I am carrying right now. How would you like me to proceed?" The few times I have been pulled over, they asked me where it was, I told them, they told me not to reach for it and didn't say another word about it. I haven't gotten a ticket in about 12 years.

 

[kdave21]

Deleted.

 

[1911 guy]

Ohio leaves us no choice in the matter. We must inform the officer upon arrival at the vehicle. Of course, they already have a hunch, as CCW shows up in LEADS here in Ohio.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

Your previous statement was one that is very commonly made: "The officer is going to know about your permit before he comes to the window." That is simply an impossibility, unless the officer recognizes you personally or is a psychic.

Not impossible. Before I started working in corrections I was pulled over by a county sheriff who asked if I was armed that day. Before seeing my carry license. Just because it is impossible in your state doesn't make the matter true nationwide.

I like that map of which states have duty to inform. Interesting results as I thought it would be closer to 50/50.

 

[P-32]

As A retired LEO from Washington State who worked out in the sticks alone, I appreciated a person telling me they were armed when I approached the car. I was more inclined to give a gun toting honest law abiding citizen a break. There is no requirement to inform L/E you are armed here in Washington. But again I returned the same respect to the driver they had given me.

Now sure, some LEO’s might pop a vein when told these things but they will learn that the people who tell you are going to be easy to deal with. The likely hood of harm coming from a person who tells you they are armed is way less than those who don’t. Nine times out of ten I would get a heart felt thank you even after the Performance evaluation. (ticket)

Bad guys are dang sure not going to let you know they are armed.

 

[Davek1977]

I revert to the laws of where I happen to be at....if my duty is to inform, I'll do so. Otherwise, I tend to agree with NavyLCDR... I won't LIE if asked, but see no need to volunteer the information if not required to. South Dakota has no dutyt to inform, and, last I checked, had one of the highest rates of ccw per capita. Encountering people with guns is nothing new to law enforcement here, and most cops have told me they just presume everyone is armed until they find out otherwise. I've yet to encounter an officer while carrying, but I'm not going to make my gun an issue if the officer doesn't, and therefore will follow my legal right to remain silent regarding my weapon

Ehtereon11B, the idea that a cop "already knows as soon as he runs your plates whether or not you have a permit" is blatant misinformation. While it may be true in certain states, it is NOT universally true by a long shot, so the decision to inform or not is hardly a "moot point" as you erroneously claimed.....some states may link databases that may indicate whether the registered owner of the vehcile has a permit, or a database that links drivers license's to permits, but again, that is NOT something every state does. SD has a ccw database that is independant from either DL or plate data

 

[BSA1]

I do have to say I have received one ticket in 4 stops, so make from that what you will. The ticket was from a very small-town cop FWIW. The other stops were by state police who have all been extremely professional and courteous. Hats to Texas DPS

Why are officers that let offender off are "extremely professional and courteous" but ones that choose to enforce the law especially on a repeat violator a "small town cop?"

 

[Prince Yamato]

Leave hands on wheel.

Don't interrupt the officer.

State something to the effect of, "before we begin, may I show you my concealed weapons permit? My gun(s) is(are) [tell officer where guns are, don't reach for them].

Smile and be polite.

 

[j1]

Seems to me that I would inform the officer when my hands were still on the wheel before reaching for anything. I think that he would feel safer and so would I. Then he can determine the course of action he would like.

 

[bikemutt]

If the goal of disclosure when not legally required is to reduce one's chance of getting a ticket then I guess it's just another tool in the toolbox, may as well use it. On the other hand, if safety is the primary concern, mums the word.

 

[AirForceShooter]

IF I tell a LEO I'm armed it's done by giving him my D/L and CCW and asking what he wants me to do.

I'm in Florida most of the time. My CCW is NOT linked to DMV so there's no way of knowing I have a CCW with a license check.

When I leave the state I always show my CCW right away.

I never say the word GUN.

AFS

 

[mdauben]

In my state we are not required to notify, so I would say nothing unless specifically asked if I had a weapon in the car. If I lived in a state that required notification, I would hand my permit along with my DL and proof of insurance when he came to my window.

 

[Arp32]

Some of you guys are missing the point on whether the cop knows you're carrying by running your license plate.

Running the plate may or may not turn up the vehicle owners concealed weapons permit. But there are no states where running a license plate magically informs the officer who is driving the car that day.

 

[CoRoMo]

From reading through this thread, it looks like we have two possible outcomes in mind, in regards to informing or not in a state where it is not required.

• One outcome of informing when not required is the possibility of no ticket.
• One outcome of informing when not required is the possibility of... very bad things.

The odds of getting out of a ticket? Better than average maybe?
The odds of the interaction becoming a nightmare you wish to forget? Slim.

The stakes?

A ticket isn't the end of the world.

 

[beatledog7]

The odds of getting out of a ticket? Better than average maybe?
The odds of the interaction becoming a nightmare you wish to forget? Slim.

Then it comes down to a simple risk matrix. I'll take the reasonable chance that being open and cooperative may get me by with a warning and has relatively little chance of making things worse over the minuscule probability that this particular officer is going to hassle me over being a permitted carrier.

If I'm wrong, and he does hassle me over it, I have recourse. His badge number is right there on the ticket.

 

[heavydluxe]

My notifying a cop that I'm carrying (or worse that I'm NOT) won't extend that cop's life one SECOND. On the contrary, if I DO intend to kill him, my notifying may lull him into a false sense of security.

Any cop who doesn't suspect that ANYBODY could be armed and act accordingly, is too stupid for the job.

Just to be clear: My purpose in disclosing is to protect *my life*, not his.

 

[1911 guy]

I have gotten very few tickets in my driving career and only one was, I thought, undeserved. The other were for something I knew I was doing like driving a bit over the limit, had a light out, etc. Whether the officer was courteous and professional wasn't an issue, I deserved the ticket. However, I have only ever had two instances where an officer was rude or unprofessional and those two were ten years apart and seperated by three time zones.

Tickets or nor aside, I have been a little surprised by a few cops reactions when carrying. Ohio law requires us to inform, not doing so is a felony here. When the officer comes to my window, I just turn on the dome light, keep two hands on the wheel, tell them I have a permit and a handgun. Permit is in my wallet on my left, handgun in a holster on my right. They smile, tell me to get my wallet and registration. The couple times I've been stopped while carrying have been for license plate lights in two different vehicles (go figure). They do what they do, I sit there. They've come back, given me a warning or ticket, and told me they wished more people would handle stops this way.

 

[CoRoMo]

Then it comes down to a simple risk matrix.

So the two sides of this discussion are fixed on different focus points.

One is focused on the odds.
One is focused on the stakes.

 

[weblance]

In Ohio, I'm required by law to notify during a police encounter, IF ARMED. That's not good enough for cops. They want you to notify if NOT armed. My answer in a word, "NO".

In Ohio, you must notify, regardless if you are armed or not. I listen to my local PD on a handheld scanner. They know when approaching the vehicle, that the registered owner of the vehicle, has a CHL. I cant tell by your post if you are saying you WILL NOT notify if NOT carrying, but I advise you TO notify if NOT carrying. It is my understanding of Ohio law, that you must notify even when not carrying.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

In Alabama,having a pistol permit is no big deal. A large percentage of folks have one. The LEOs don't know by vehicle registration if the owner is permitted or not and the subject rarely comes up at a stop. I have had a concealed weapons permit since 1973 and have only been asked for it twice(handgun was visible to officer at a license check)in that time. Only once did the officer take control of the firearm until I produced the permit(that was in 1976). Unless specifically asked,I don't offer.

 

[NavyLCDR]

In Ohio, you must notify, regardless if you are armed or not. I listen to my local PD on a handheld scanner. They know when approaching the vehicle, that the registered owner of the vehicle, has a CHL. I cant tell by your post if you are saying you WILL NOT notify if NOT carrying, but I advise you TO notify if NOT carrying. It is my understanding of Ohio law, that you must notify even when not carrying.

False information. Johnny Dollar also posted the statute that is applicable only when in a motor vehicle. Here is the actual "must notify" statute for Ohio:

2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons.
(B) No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code shall do any of the following:

(1) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun, fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the person after the person has been stopped that the person has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;

Notice the portion highlighted. Also, the rest of the statute has a lot of other requirements as well:

(2) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, knowingly fail to keep the person’s hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the failure is pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;

(3) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, and if the person is approached by any law enforcement officer while stopped, knowingly remove or attempt to remove the loaded handgun from the holster, pocket, or other place in which the person is carrying it, knowingly grasp or hold the loaded handgun, or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person’s hands or fingers at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person removes, attempts to remove, grasps, holds, or has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;

(4) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, knowingly disregard or fail to comply with any lawful order of any law enforcement officer given while the person is stopped, including, but not limited to, a specific order to the person to keep the person’s hands in plain sight.

Notice that these requirements apply ONLY to persons who possess a permit and are LEGALLY carrying a concealed handgun. If you are a criminal who is illegally concealing a handgun - these requirements no longer apply. How stupid is that?

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Double tap

 

[hermannr]

As A retired LEO from Washington State who worked out in the sticks alone, I appreciated a person telling me they were armed when I approached the car. I was more inclined to give a gun toting honest law abiding citizen a break. There is no requirement to inform L/E you are armed here in Washington. But again I returned the same respect to the driver they had given me.

Now sure, some LEO’s might pop a vein when told these things but they will learn that the people who tell you are going to be easy to deal with. The likely hood of harm coming from a person who tells you they are armed is way less than those who don’t. Nine times out of ten I would get a heart felt thank you even after the Performance evaluation. (ticket)

Bad guys are dang sure not going to let you know they are armed.

I also live on the dry side, and I also normally OC...I consider my sidearm no different than my shoes, hat or pocket knife. IMHO: If I am armed, or not, is totally irrelivent to any traffic stop.

Why would you want me to insert a variable that is unnecessary into that traffic stop? My carry, OC or CC, in it's holster is not a danger to anyone. Not shutting off the car's engine is potentially more dangerous...Don't you think?

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Their being "miffed" is of NO CONSEQUENCE WHATEVER.

Obey the LAW where you happen to be.

Ohio law (hopefully soon to be repealed) requires notification. Handing the cop your CHL (or recognized equivalent) is NOT sufficient notification. You must VERBALLY announce.

Where there is no law requiring notification, there is no reason to do so. Whim of the police is NOT a reason.


"I have an Ohio CHL and I have my firearm (cite location)."

I obey the LETTER OF THE LAW, nothing more, nothing less. I don't do made up shows of servility euphemistically painted as "courtesies". The police have no right to expect ANYTHING else.

Please cite the Ohio law that requires one to announce verbally or admit that you are making things up. For a guy who claims to follow the letter of the law, you sure seen to be asking others to comply with your ill-informed opinion of it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Several people have said that they teach and that they inform the officer of their permit and the gun because it might help them to get out of receiving a ticket. Here is my feeling on that:

1. I don't carry a gun to become friends with LEO and increase my chances of getting out of a ticket. I carry a gun for self protection.

2. The Washington State Constitution says that I have the right to be secure in my personal affairs, papers and property from ANY search and seizure without due course of law. I won't waive that right simply to try to avoid a ticket. If the officer does not see my gun, and I present no indications otherwise, there is no reasonable suspicion to indicate that I am armed and present a danger to him. If I immediately tell him about my gun, and present to him an UNVERIFIED CPL - I have just provided him with the reasonable suspicion that I am armed and present a danger to him (no matter how slight) and have just given him the legal justification to frisk me and search the front area of my vehicle, without my consent. That is according to the US Supreme Court in Terry v. Ohio and several other cases.

3. I do everything I can during a traffic stop to show the officer I am a good guy. I turn on my hazard lights until I pull over in a safe place. Turn off the engine. Have a minimum of my military ID card and out-of-state driver's license in my hand resting on the fully lowered driver's side window. I have the folder with my registration and insurance on my lap. My free hand is on the steering wheel. At night the interior light is on. I greet the officer with a friendly greeting. If that isn't enough to keep a paranoid officer from shooting me if he happens to see a properly holstered firearm, than chances are he will also be the type that will freak out anyway if I tell him about my gun.

4. I put myself, the officer and others at risk from a negligent discharge if I tell the police officer about my gun, and he chooses to then handle my firearm needlessly. The safest place for my gun is in it's holster not being handled. Telling the officer about my gun increases the chance that it won't stay in it's holster. I won't increase the danger to anyone simply to try to get out of a ticket.

5. I won't put the police officer on a pedestal and treat them special just because of the career they chose to be in. My garbage man has more of a chance of dying on the job than the police officer does. My garbage man contributes to everyone's health and safety every single day by taking away the trash. The farmer has more of a chance of dying on the job than the police officer has. He contributes to my health and safety every day by putting food on my table. I don't tell the garbage man, the farmer or the police officer about my gun and I am equally courteous, polite and respectful to all of them, as well as the cashier in the grocery or convenience store.

6. Even if I do inform and show my CPL - how does the officer know my CPL is valid until he knows who I am and calls in my information and receives confirmation that it is valid? All I have done is indicate to him that I might hold a valid CPL, but he would be foolish to trust the validity of that until he verifies. Just like he won't trust the validity of my driver's license just because I handed it to him, he will verify that it isn't suspended or revoked. The officer isn't really going to know I possess a VALID CPL until he receives that information from the state of Washington anyway, regardless of if I hand him a piece of paper or not.