How do you tell a LEO that you are armed at a traffic stop

[Matthew Courtney]

I do have to say I have received one ticket in 4 stops, so make from that what you will. The ticket was from a very small-town cop FWIW. The other stops were by state police who have all been extremely professional and courteous. Hats to Texas DPS

Why are officers that let offender off are "extremely professional and courteous" but ones that choose to enforce the law especially on a repeat violator a "small town cop?"

Why are you accusing someone of being a repeat violator with no evidence?

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Louisiana only requires that one inform when carrying on their permit. The requirement is part of the terms of the permit. As one does not need a permit to carry in their vehicle, there is no requirement to inform when stopped while carrying in their vehicle. The permit does not obligate you to do things that are unrelated to the permit.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Please cite the Ohio law that requires one to announce verbally or admit that you are making things up. For a guy who claims to follow the letter of the law, you sure seen to be asking others to comply with your ill-informed opinion of it.

Mr. Courtney, you might want to study the ohio law yourself before you make such rash comments.

(1) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun, fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the person after the person has been stopped that the person has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;

How would you suggest that the officer be informed that the person is actually carrying a concealed handgun if they don't verbally tell them? I would think that a motion taken to expose the handgun would probably be frowned upon. Showing the officer a CHL in NO WAY informs that officer of the actual presence of a handgun. Two SEPARATE AND DISTINCT notifications are required: 1. the person has been issued a CHL AND 2. the person is carrying a concealed handgun.

Would it not be a fair statement for a police officer to make to the court, "Judge, he showed me an Ohio CHL, but I was offered no indication by the subject that he was carrying a concealed handgun. It wasn't until I frisked him and found the concealed handgun that I was made aware of it's presence."

 

[1KPerDay]

Around here:

1. Hand officer driver's license, and CWP.
2. Officer asks "are you carrying" (they look it up anyway here, so they will know if you don't tell them, and they prefer to be notified)
3. Yes, sir (tell them where the pistol is located)
4. cop says "okay, leave it there"
5. Of course, sir
6. get ticket (or not)

 

[mljdeckard]

Re post 82,

This is what I recommend as well, I stated before that Utah cops are overwhelmingly supportive of carry, and highly unlikely to cite permit holders. They are also highly UN likely to use carrying against you in a negative way. Now, if you ASK them, they won't tell you which agencies can and cannot pull up your permit info. What I have been able to determine, and I'm pretty sure this is the case, the highway patrol is interlinked to the BCI, and they have access to that information. Other agencies don't. Now, they will SAY they do, but I think they are bluffing.

But yeah I agree. IN UTAH, the result is overwhelmingly good for informing. Not informing may be bad. If I ever hear otherwise I will tell everyone. If I am anywhere else I will shut up, because police love to cite out of staters whether they are carrying or not.

 

[Ledgehammer]

Louisiana only requires that one inform when carrying on their permit. The requirement is part of the terms of the permit. As one does not need a permit to carry in their vehicle, there is no requirement to inform when stopped while carrying in their vehicle. The permit does not obligate you to do things that are unrelated to the permit.

Same here in FL. I agree 100% with your post. We have the right to carry in our vehicles and are covered by the castle doctrine should we need to defend ourselves while in our personal vehicle. I view it as an officer coming to my house on a noise complaint and then I blurt that I have guns in my house. It's not Germaine to the situation.

 

[squid841]

Thanks Everyone, I think that about covers it. Also, Thanks Johnny Dollar for the map. Also, Thanks P200SK for the link.
Indiana is an open carry state, but they push decorum. sort of "please don't make the sheep nervous". My son carries "semi open" and has never had a problem. He is discrete and likes the thought that if a bad guy opens fire, he will not be the first target because of the weapon.

 

[1KPerDay]

What I have been able to determine, and I'm pretty sure this is the case, the highway patrol is interlinked to the BCI, and they have access to that information. Other agencies don't. Now, they will SAY they do, but I think they are bluffing.

Highland/Alpine cops have access... at least the one that pulled me over did. I didn't inform and he came back and asked if I was carrying... and he said it comes up anyway when they run your license, so it's more polite to inform them up front. Since then I just hand over my permit up front. All have been pleasant re: carrying.

 

[BSA1]

Why are you accusing someone of being a repeat violator with no evidence?

Self-admission of guilt is acceptable in a Court of Law but not on the THR?

"do have to say I have received one ticket in 4 stops, so make from that what you will"

Repeat is more than one occasion. :banghead:

But my point is not about how often a person is stopped for speeding but why it was necessary to describe the officer that choose to enforce the law by writing a ticket was described as a "small town cop."

 

[Powderman]

My garbage man has more of a chance of dying on the job than the police officer does.

Sunday evening, I was beating the bushes around a wooded area in Tacoma, in the rain, looking for someone that had just fired off four rounds with a rifle. I was with a Tacoma officer; she had a sidearm, and I had my AR carbine.

Does your garbageman do that?

Another time on duty, we were talking a guy up from a ravine, after he dived into it, totaly naked, after running around the street yelling at folks, near an elementary school in session. The guy was yelling that he had found Jesus in that dry creek bed. He was off his meds, on a couple of bags of meth, and HIV positive.

Does your garbageman do that, too?

As far as informing on a traffic stop, usually if I pull someone over and see hands on the wheel and the lights on, I know that they're legaly armed. If someone tells me that they are armed, I make a deal with them--if they don't reach for theirs, I don't reach for mine.

To the folks who open carry--good on ya, but PLEASE take some classes on weapon retention, will ya? I use a retention holster to help slow down a gun grabber--what do you have?

 

[Salmoneye]

Here in VT, I have never been asked, and I have never volunteered such info...

As for a 'traffic stop', I have not had one since 1986, and I always suggest people obey traffic laws and keep their vehicles legal in order to not get stopped...

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sunday evening, I was beating the bushes around a wooded area in Tacoma, in the rain, looking for someone that had just fired off four rounds with a rifle. I was with a Tacoma officer; she had a sidearm, and I had my AR carbine.

Does your garbageman do that?

Another time on duty, we were talking a guy up from a ravine, after he dived into it, totaly naked, after running around the street yelling at folks, near an elementary school in session. The guy was yelling that he had found Jesus in that dry creek bed. He was off his meds, on a couple of bags of meth, and HIV positive.

Does your garbageman do that, too?

I have the utmost respect and gratitude for police officer's and the job they do. But there is a certain segment of population that feels that police officers should be put on pedestals for their career choice. One way this comes out is the feeling that you should tell the police officer about your gun and permit "out of respect and courtesy". So, I have to ask this question:

Take a tent, your guns and a police officer with you and live at the local landfill for 1 week preferably in the rain and cold of winter. Don't take any food or water - just a tent, guns and a police officer. After that week, honestly evaluate if you had to go without the services of a profession for any length of time, which would you rather do without?

The farmer - who is killed more often on the job than the police officer, who puts the food in the grocery store for your family to live on?

The lumberjack - who is killed more often on the job than the police officer, who provides the wood that shelters your family and provides for their security in the house they live in?

The garbageman - who is killed more often on the job than the police officer, who takes all that trash from everyone's house and delivers it to the landfill?

Or the police officer - who is in the #10 profession according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics likely to be killed on the job - who does his best to keep your family safe from criminals (however, you still feel the need to carry a gun to protect yourself with).

So for those that show their permits and tell about their guns to police officers only, and use the reason of "respect and courtesy", I must ask....why are they more worthy of respect and courtesy than any other person out there in a job of greater danger which has a more immediate and continual affect on our health and safety?

I appreciate the honesty of those that fully admit they will only disclose to a police officer about their permits and guns because they think it holds some advantage to themselves to do so. But I must question, for myself, the motive of those that claim to do so due to some heightened entitlement reserved only for police officers to know about your permit and your lawfully possessed firearm which poses no more threat to the police officer (while the gun is in the holster) than your cell phone does.

I am not saying police officers are not worthy of courtesy and respect...the good ones (99%) most certainly are. I just can't see the justification for a pedestal for them.

 

[rooter]

Answer one I don't like. If they do find i'm carrying, They might get REAL miffed!
Their being "miffed" is of NO CONSEQUENCE WHATEVER

.

I tend to disagree. Their being "miffed" might well decide your fate for the worse.

Where there is no law requiring notification, there is no reason to do so. Whim of the police is NOT a reason........

I obey the LETTER OF THE LAW, nothing more, nothing less. I don't do made up shows of servility euphemistically painted as "courtesies". The police have no right to expect ANYTHING else.......

Any cop who doesn't suspect that ANYBODY could be armed and act accordingly, is too stupid for the job.

If you haven't noticed, Deanimator visits these threads, boasts at how he allegedly thumbs his nose at authority figures and puts them in their place, and generally gives advice encouraging behavior geared at bucking those in authority or escalating a situation. Some people are just difficult. Most of what he preaches is guaranteed to make any interaction with the police worse on you.

My advice: Obey the law, be courteous, forthright, and compliant. There is nothing wrong with informing, even when you don't have to, and I think it is a good idea to do so.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Mr. Courtney, you might want to study the ohio law yourself before you make such rash comments.



How would you suggest that the officer be informed that the person is actually carrying a concealed handgun if they don't verbally tell them? I would think that a motion taken to expose the handgun would probably be frowned upon. Showing the officer a CHL in NO WAY informs that officer of the actual presence of a handgun. Two SEPARATE AND DISTINCT notifications are required: 1. the person has been issued a CHL AND 2. the person is carrying a concealed handgun.

Would it not be a fair statement for a police officer to make to the court, "Judge, he showed me an Ohio CHL, but I was offered no indication by the subject that he was carrying a concealed handgun. It wasn't until I frisked him and found the concealed handgun that I was made aware of it's presence."

You put a sticker on the permit that states, "I am armed". There is no requirement that you speak to an officer at all. If you are not armed, you do not have to give him your permit.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Why are you accusing someone of being a repeat violator with no evidence?

Self-admission of guilt is acceptable in a Court of Law but not on the THR?

"do have to say I have received one ticket in 4 stops, so make from that what you will"

Repeat is more than one occasion. :banghead:

But my point is not about how often a person is stopped for speeding but why it was necessary to describe the officer that choose to enforce the law by writing a ticket was described as a "small town cop."

He wrote that he had been stopped, not that he was guilty of anything. He wrote that he drove fast. 85 MPH is fast, but it is legal in Texas, where he is from, so that is not an admission of guilt, either. A LEO doesn't even need probable cause to stop, so that doesn't make him guilty. Where are you getting this mess from?

 

[Ledgehammer]

I've received a total of 5 tickets in my 20 years of driving. I've never been frisked or asked to step out of the vehicle. I have been asked every single time if I know why they pulled me over lol.

 

[jerry47]

in oregon we don't have to disclose the fact were armed.i don't inform. i have heard of cases where the cop was informed and shot to death the person just out of fear.may it never happen to me or you,but i don't want an excuse to fire back at a scared cop just to save my life.some cops are just fearful and i don't trust them.btw i was a leo in the 70's.whole different breed out there today.just saying!

 

[mljdeckard]

^^Um....YOU HEARD WRONG.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

If they ask if I have a gun I would tell them but otherwise I wouldn't. Just adds extra hassle.

 

[Davek1977]

Jerry47, what you are suggesting has absolutely NO basis in reality, and has never been documented to have happened in the manner you suggest. Its ignorant hyperbole that serves to benefit no one. I follow the laws in the jurisdiction I am in. if doing so results in me being shot, I hope my wife enjoys the settlement that is sure to arise from it. Barring any other additional information, I have no fear of being shot for carrying a concealed weapon and disclosing...or not disclosing...whichever the law reads where I'm at.....whether or not I am carrying a gun.

What I am afraid of is a situation where safety is compromised by an officer insisting he disarm me and clear my weapon while not necessarily being familiar with my particular firearm. I fear an accidental discharge from such overzealous behavior far more than I fear the cop whipping out his own gun ans shooting me because he takes notice of the fact I am armed. When I get pulled over, the officer doesn't detail to me everything that is in his pockets, on his duty belt, or in his car.....why should I extend him that curtsey?, if not legally subject to a search? I comply with the law at all times, but see no reason to inform if not legally required to.....unless POSSIBLY a law was passed barring officers from handling a private citizins firearm during a routine stop. If I could be assured the officer only needeed to KNOW about my gun, but had absolutely no intentions of handling it in any fashion, i may be more willing to inform. AS it stands now though, I think the safety issues alone far outweigh the idea's of "officer safety" or "putting him at ease". I'm at ease with my pistol concealed and in my possession at all times, and I'm more concerned with my comfort level than I am his. How many other professions do people suggest walking on eggshells around and going far out of your way to put them at ease? Police fill a need in our society, but at the end of the day, its a job or career not unlike any other one may choose. If the risk is so high you feel the need to constantly trumpet to the public about how hard youer job is, how dangerous it is etc....maybe you need to find a line of work you are more comfortable doing. The pedestal some officers put themselves and their profession on concerns me. I was raised working on a farm and ranch. My dad still operates it. Even though his job statistically was among the most life-threatening, he didn't dwell on it, mention it, or bring it up in conversation. He just DOES it, because he LOVES it. The rewards outweigh the risk in his eyes, and I respect that fully. Do your job because you enjoy it and find it rewarding, not so you can preach about how dangerous you have it as a cop. Your job carrying certain risks doesn't mean I should surrender any of my legal rights in order to make you more comfortable. Your comfort level is secondary to my personal comfort level. Thats not meant to be an insult or to provoke controversy, just a statement of fact from my POV

 

[Doc3402]

I always inform the officer for the simple reason that they always ask. Whether it's DUI checkpoint or a vehicle safety check that seems to be one of the first questions out of their mouth. I've never had an officer have a stroke over it and most have been very polite when they tell me what they want me to do.

Only one has asked me to get out of the car, and he still didn't ask me to surrender or remove my weapon. All he wanted me to do was place my hands on the trunk lid while standing by the passenger side of my car. The stated reason for asking me to get out was to keep an eye on me while he made sure my carry permit was still valid. I was back on the road with a friendly thank you in 5 minutes.

One thing to keep in mind. Things will usually go better for you if you are up front with the officer, especially if you are stopped for an infraction. If he or she notices you are carrying, and you have tried to conceal that fact, things may not go as smoothly for you.

 

[P-32]

Hermanner wrote:

I also live on the dry side, and I also normally OC...I consider my sidearm no different than my shoes, hat or pocket knife. IMHO: If I am armed, or not, is totally irrelivent to any traffic stop.

Why would you want me to insert a variable that is unnecessary into that traffic stop? My carry, OC or CC, in it's holster is not a danger to anyone. Not shutting off the car's engine is potentially more dangerous...Don't you think?

You missed the point I was making. When someone told me they were carrying, I still did my job. But you see I viewed the permit holders as my back up since real back up could be 30 miles away. I was hoping if I was getting wopped a law abiding citizen would help out. And yes there were a couple of times I was helped out and an arrest was effected. And no not because I was getting beat up but sometimes folks would point me in the right direction. One guy even sat on the lids on a dumpster a bad guy was hiding in until I got there after chasing that guy around. LOL.

For those who don't know.. Giving radio a plate number would not alert to a carry permit. If the owner of the vehicle had a warrant they would let us know. Most of the time I was back in the car getting ready to run the driver’s license before radio would ask if I was clear for traffic to get me that information. Running a carry permit would tell me if it was valid or not and which fire arm they were said they would carry on the app. Washington State is a shall issue state. Each person is given a back ground check and the gun crime rate for permit holders is like .01%. So when you told me you were carrying and had a permit, you just told me you were the salt of the earth.

 

[BSA1]

He wrote that he had been stopped, not that he was guilty of anything. He wrote that he drove fast. 85 MPH is fast, but it is legal in Texas, where he is from, so that is not an admission of guilt, either. A LEO doesn't even need probable cause to stop, so that doesn't make him guilty. Where are you getting this mess from?

Friend,

I don't know what your grudge is with LEO's and speeding but you need to address it with them not with me as I have nothing to do with your problems.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...i don't inform. i have heard of cases where the cop was informed and shot to death the person just out of fear....

Do you have an evidence to support your claim? Can you provide us with good documentation that anything of the sort has happened?

 

[berettaprofessor]

I was the front car stopped at a construction zone in a 3-car rear-end accident (pickup hit car behind me and drove the car into my rear bumper). When the police arrived, I quietly, away from the other drivers, informed the responding officer that I was a CCH and that a weapon was in the center console in my car. He just smiled and said, "that's fine, just keep it there." The police in this town welcomed (for the most part) CCH when it went in and this officer was very professional.

To my understanding, I don't have a duty to inform, but in my state your CCH is tagged to your driver's license so if they look you up via license plate or license, they know anyway. I'd rather be upfront about it.