Indian Summer Long Range Precision Rifle Match

[52grain]

I've been wanting to have a centerfire match to complement Maverick223's matches. I originally envisioned several classes to go along with the variety of interests on here. Unfortunately, I've been very busy and only have time to organize one. I want to keep this as open as possible so that most people can compete.

Shooting can be from any of the standard positions including benchrest and can use bipods, sand bags, and slings, but not lead sleds (see note below on classes).

Shooting can take place at any distance between 100 and 800 yards. (See scoring below)

Basically anything goes on equipment except benchrest rail guns. Equipment requirements:
-Trigger pull must be no less than 2.5 lbs and cannot be electronic in anyway
-Total rig (Gun, scope, and any accessories attached directly to the rifle) must weigh no more than 18 lbs
-Any caliber is acceptable
-Magnification must be no greater than 16x. (If you have a variable power scope, you can set it to 16x or less.)

Objective:
Shoot the smallest five (5) shot group possible at any distance from 100 to 800 yards. The target can be any thing paper. The point of aim must be clearly identifiable.

Scoring:
Scoring will be based on MOA between the furthest shots. MOA will be rounded to the nearest hundredth. (ie 0.01) Tie breaks, in order, are as follows:
-Distance (greater distance winning)
-Distance to point of aim (in MOA rounded to the nearest hundredth)
-Average to center (in MOA rounded to the nearest hundredth)

Scoring will be done using the OnTarget software. If you have this and know how to use it, please make my life easier and enter the bullet holes yourself and post a picture including all five holes, group size, the average to center, and distance to point of aim. Otherwise, post a scanned image or picture taken with a digital camera including a ruler so that I can score your submission.

All submissions must be made no later than midnight central time on September 30th. (I will judge participation and may extend the match if necessary to increase participation.

If we get enough interest, I may break this up into different classes based on rig cost and/or distance. If anybody sees any holes in my rules or needs clarification, please feel free to ask questions.

To start with there will be two classes, one supported (includes sand bags, bipods, monopods, shooting sticks, nothing like the Caldwell LeadSled though). The second will be for unsupported (slings allowed). Any shooting position is acceptable.

Feel free to submit multiple targets from the same or multiple rigs. Also, please post pictures of your rigs if you can.

Be safe and have fun!

 

[bigalexe]

Just a suggestion, maybe try making a supported & unsupported class.

Unsupported: Any position using your arm
Supported: Any position using sandbags, benchrest, bipod, monopod, ect.

Secondly, since we don't expect to get as many people shooting the centerfire match maybe go 3 months per match to increase participation, and 6 months per muzzle-loader match.

Just my 0.02 and maybe I will try this with a .223

 

[Tim the student]

Cool stuff here. I think maybe I'll see what I can do later today.

 

[P51D]

I like it, and plan to participate. Sept 30th should be plenty of time for me, but Bigalexe may have a point in suggesting a little longer time limit (and past participation backs him up). But I'd vote for seeing how participation goes, keeping the Sep 30th date for now. Future contests, maybe two months? Krochus and some others have done a great job running these in the past, and did so with great patience. Hopefully this will catch on again!!

P51D

 

[52grain]

Bigalexe's comments are well taken. I'll break things into two classes, one supported, one unsupported. See revisions to first post.

We'll see how participation goes. If we need to, we can always lengthen the match.

 

[baldeagle93]

I suggest increasing or removing the weight restriction. My best two rigs out weigh the restriction. IMO a long range precision shooting rifle is going to weigh over 12.5 lbs, especially if it is outfitted for hunting. Both of my rigs could be used for paper punching, but are practical weapons used for hunting (although some question an 18 lb rifle being practical, to which I say, "put your man pants on!).

 

[shootr]

This looks like it will be a fun - and humbling - experience. Time of year for me to break out my deer rifles. Unfortunately my range only goes to 200 yards. Think I'll try an old FN 06 with some Greek CMP ammo... for that international flair.

 

[52grain]

I suggest increasing or removing the weight restriction. My best two rigs out weigh the restriction. IMO a long range precision shooting rifle is going to weigh over 12.5 lbs, especially if it is outfitted for hunting. Both of my rigs could be used for paper punching, but are practical weapons used for hunting (although some question an 18 lb rifle being practical, to which I say, "put your man pants on!).

Limit increased to 18 lbs. Will allow most of the AI models while still keeping the rail guns out of the picture.

 

[skiking]

You should have some sort of formula for the scoring putting more weight on distance so that a 0.6 MOA group at 800 beats a 0.59 MOA group at 100 instead of using distance as a tie breaker. I am pretty sure everybody here will agree the guy shooting at 800 in my example would deserve to win, if not, there is too much incentive to shoot at 100 or 200 and not have to worry about a bunch of drop or wind.

 

[52grain]

You should have some sort of formula for the scoring putting more weight on distance so that a 0.6 MOA group at 800 beats a 0.59 MOA group at 100 instead of using distance as a tie breaker. I am pretty sure everybody here will agree the guy shooting at 800 in my example would deserve to win, if not, there is too much incentive to shoot at 100 or 200 and not have to worry about a bunch of drop or wind.

I definitely agree that shooting 1 MOA at 600 yards is way more difficult than shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards and I thought about this problem when I was coming up with the rules.

We could add in some kind of range bias which would effectively reduce the group size at longer distances. The problem is deciding what that bias should be. Certain rigs and shooters might actually shoot better (in MOA terms) at 200 yards than 100 yards. I don't want to make the bias to high because not everyone has access to longer ranges and they shouldn't be punished for that. I am also trying to keep things simple. Having to use a formula to determine scores starts to make things more difficult.

If people can agree that a range bias is necessary and agree on a specific value, I'll change the rules accordingly, but I need some agreement on the issue first.

If I get enough entries, I will break things up into classes based on distance which would go a long ways towards making things more fair.

 

[P51D]

Klineia wrote:

I don't want to make the bias to high because not everyone has access to longer ranges and they shouldn't be punished for that.

Klineia is right on the mark here about access to longer ranges. And yes, Skiking, no doubt, distance matters!!

Trouble is, where I am, I'm lucky to have a private 100 yd range nearby. If I want to shoot at something like 300 yds on a public range, I can do that by driving for three hours (and it's a great range, BTW. And I look fwd to doing it once a year or so). Anyway, I think many of us east of the Mississippi, without a fair amount of private land, are in the same boat. This will be a tricky balance. I'm confident that Klineia will make some wise decisions based on number of entries and ranges thereof.

P51D

 

[52grain]

Went to the range today. There were a couple of idiots shooting handguns that were not being safe so I left early before someone got hurt (told the RSO on the way out). Group isn't very good, but I figured I would get things started. Shot from 100 yards with the Remington 700 VLS in .223 Remington off of bags. Scope is a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40. Target wasn't particularly conducive to small groups.

Distance to point of aim is .26 MOA vertical, .22 MOA horizontal for a total of .34 MOA.

 

[P51D]

Klineia - In my book, .711" at 100 yds is some pretty darn good shooting! Good job. I hope to get out in the next week or two. P51D

 

[Maverick223]

Klineia, thank you for hosting a centerfire match. I'll give it a whirl if I get the chance.

 

[P51D]

Hi, Klineia. I've a couple of questions.

1. Are we shooting for smallest group size, or some sort of average distance from point of aim, or something else? I see you scored yours as .34 moa, and I'm not sure how you got there.

2. One we post a target, are we allowed to come back and better it, or just one entry per shooter per rifle?

THANKS

P51D

 

[52grain]

The .34 MOA was only the distance to the point of aim which is the second tie break (first tie break being distance to the target). My actual score would be .71 MOA which was the group size.

If anyone else managed the same score, the winner would be whoever shot at the longer distance and, in the event that they shot at the same distance, the distance to point of aim would be the second tie break. Ideally there would be some kind of formula that accounted for all of these things, but I wanted to keep things simple.

 

[52grain]

Klineia, thank you for hosting a centerfire match. I'll give it a whirl if I get the chance.

Please do and post pictures of your rig.

 

[Maverick223]

Please do and post pictures of your rig.

Of course I haven't had a chance to shoot, but I can post a photo now...


This is most likely the one i'll use (though I may drag out the M17 [amongst others] as well because it shoots better than most folks might believe); it is a Desert Tactical Arms SRS chambered for .300WM. Optics are provided by a PRH 5-25x56mm MTC Gen 2XR rifle scope.

FWIW, I will have to readjust the trigger to get it up to 2.5lbs (currently sitting at about 1lb), but that is a simple operation.

 

[Geno]

Mav:

I'll trade you 3 marbles, a Scooby comic book, and 5 Bazooka bubble gum comics for that rifle. Wha'cha' mean, no way?!

<<Geno scoffs>> Phfft!! In 3rd grade you would have jumped on that deal! Did I mention the marbles are "steelie boulder"?

Geno

 

[Maverick223]

Geno, if you throw in some Topps baseball cards and i'll think about it.

 

[Geno]

Groovy Man!!! You are the coolest cat around! I'll trade 2, Deep Purple 8-track tapes for some cards tonight, and get back to you.

Geno

 

[Maverick223]

How could I ever say no to that?

BTW: Thanks for the kind, if a bit illusive, words, Geno.

 

[P51D]

Thanks for the clarifcation, Klineia. Now to the second question: If we post a target shot with a certain rifle, and we later shoot a better group with the same rifle, can we post the better group? Or are we stuck with what we posted first? I'd vote for the former, since "stuck with what you posted first" will tend to make people delay posting anything until the very end. That is, I'd be thinking "I'll bet I can get to the range just one more time to shoot a better group, so I'm going to wait to post my target."

Also, it sounds like Mav and Geno have come up with 3rd and 4th level tie breakers: Most-Wicked-Looking Rifle, and Most Bazooka Joe Comics.

P51D

 

[Maverick223]

Also, it sounds like Mav and Geno have come up with 3rd and 4th level tie breakers: Most-Wicked-Looking Rifle, and Most Bazooka Joe Comics.

Thanks, P51D, just hope it lives up to the reputation...and I have a chance to exorcise (pun intended) its wickedness.

 

[52grain]

If we post a target shot with a certain rifle, and we later shoot a better group with the same rifle, can we post the better group? Or are we stuck with what we posted first?

Absolutely post as many targets as you want from the same or different rigs.

Mav: That's one nice rig.