iran war

Status
Not open for further replies.
Neutron bombs decayed faster than normal warheads half life 10 or 20 years or such. Short shelf lifes and high costs. And the whole theory was tactical. Soviets trained second crews to re-crew the tanks the first bomb killed off, and so-on, even though the armor would still be radioactive. Plus more effort was put into defences against such weapons on the part of the tanks. There would still be a blast, and all that stuff you associate with a nuclear boom. The difference was that tanks were less succeptible to the overpressure effects, so the whole enhanced radiation effect was dreamt up. Of course the media, in all its accuracy, took the whole 'it doesn't blow down buildings it just kills humans' notion and ran with it.

Why would Russia use nuclear weapons? Why would the USA? Why would Israel? Why would Iran? One reason is because they are there. What's the branch of the Russian military which has generally escaped the debilitating budget cuts? That's right. Not only that, but they have been upgrading to brand new missiles. Just for the sake of argument, if you pretend that Iran is to Russia as Israel is to America, there is good reason to believe that Iran could already have nukes - because Israel already has them. Why would Russia nuke Israel? For the same reasons America would nuke Iran, retaliation. In the nuclear war game, you take tiny itsy bitsy small chances, only. You don't take huge honking chances like 'I hope they don't have anything, and I hope the Russians don't mind missiles flying towards them. ('Cause the Russians are reasonable, it's not like they'd shoot down a passenger jet that entered their airspace and had only a small possible theoretical chance to have some malicious intent. Nope they are very forgiving and very patient.:( )

And want to believe that the new-and-improved patriots will save anyone, go ahead and believe it. What I could be persuaded to believe is that they can finally intercept a V2 or some other simple and antiquated ballistic missile without countermeasures. I'm not sure whether Iran's missiles fit that description. For what it's worth Israel also has large bulky lasers too. (and even when things are working perfectly, no-one guarantees 100% hits)

Then there's the problem of 'what if they are using cobalt in some way?'. If it's a pre-irradiated cobalt dirty-bomb, then shooting it mid-air would just scatter the material around, and radioactive cobalt pretty much the most radioactive stuff you can find.

IMO the only logical use for nuclear weapons would be if it was to destroy missiles being launched by Iran. You could give them a warning - Iran, you've been acting the dick, if you launch any missiles at all we will intercept them with nuclear airbursts as close to your launch site as possible.

Because I kind of suspect that Iran already has something, and they are goading Israel to attack them so they can use it. If I was a leader bent on hitting Israel with nukes, and I knew their MO, I'd have my reactor go catastrophic when they hit it, launch my nukes at them, and sit back in confidence that if I didn't die everyone would look at the situation and say, "Yea, Israel blew up their reactor and it made a nuclear mess, so when Iran launched those missiles at Tel Aviv to make a nuclear mess it doesn't seem that bad." And everyone who suggested Iran sabotaged their own reactor would be the lunatic conspiracy theorists.
 
>If I was a leader bent on hitting Israel with nukes, and I knew their MO, I'd have my reactor go catastrophic when they hit it,

Probably not an option. No one builds Chernobyl-style ("positive void coefficient") reactors anymore (though US foreign aid is keeping a couple of the crappy things running in various ex-Soviet locations).
 
Hook686 said:
Do you have a handle on what it might cost to refine that oil and what air quality standard that might apply to the products of that refining operation ?
This again is a manifestation of a government dominated by people with a global agenda, who will not take the necessary action to change our direction. The fact of the matter is; we are already refining oil; we import oil - not ready-to-pump gasoline. With appropriate action by the Legislatures, newer, more efficient and cleaner refineries could have been built a long time ago.
------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Oil. Lots and lots of easily extractable oil. If China, India, or Russia nuked Saudi Arabia, we would retaliate too.
Possibly, but Im not sure they are willing to be completly obliterated for the sake of Iranian oil. The current fundies or the next guys to pick up the pieces, they can still get the oil since I doubt highly we would nuke the oil fields. Then agian I doubt we would use anything nuclear unless by the small chance it was a very small tacticle nuke. With all the emphisis we put on not killing civilians I doubt we would launch city killer type nukes unless it was in retaliation for such an attack on us. In the course of regular warfair I think nukes would be restricted to enhanced bunker buster type attacks or maybe massed formations outside of major cities. With how much care we take to not hit civilians I doubt we would launch a massive ICBM to take out Irans cities.
 
Conoco-Philips thinks the US is going to attack some oil-producing state, presumably to knock out production as we are doing in Iraq.. They 'overpaid' for Burlington Resources to acquire more domestic gas. Wall Street hammered the stock price, but I'll bet C-P management knows what it's doing.
 
LAK, we do indeed import refined products such as gasoline. One of the reasons no new refineries have been built in the U.S. in the last thirty years is that there are fewer pollution controls in the foreign oil-prodeuction countries, and thus the construction/operating cost is more profitable.

Art
 
LAK, we do indeed import refined products such as gasoline. One of the reasons no new refineries have been built in the U.S. in the last thirty years is that there are fewer pollution controls in the foreign oil-prodeuction countries, and thus the construction/operating cost is more profitable.
During Katrina I saw an article pointing out how the US government causes more problems than it solves. The example used was how in 2006 IIRC a new law would kick in which would keep US oil companies from importing gasoline into the US. Seems them foreign refineries make gasoline unfit for US consumption.

If I remember correctly and IF the article is accurate, we are looking at a deliberate restriction in supply during a time of contracting supply. Now, who do you suppose benefits by fed.gov restricting supplies in the face of contracting supplier? Hmmmmm? :scrutiny:
 
hillbilly said:
Oh yes.....how silly of me....to not take some sort of "middle ground" stance and consider things from Iran's point of view.

How silly of me to not think of empathizing and understanding a regime that has used herds of children as cost-effective land mine detonation devices.....:rolleyes:


How silly of me to seek some sort of middle ground with the man who gave the following speech........

Again, the speech below is not the rantings of some whacko with an obscure blog, he's not some shadowy talk-radio figure......he's not even some guy in a backwater "militia" organization.

The man who gave the speech below is none other than the friggin' president of a country that's about to get nuclear weapons.

Tell me where the "Middle Ground" is in the speech below.........Please, tell me.


hillbilly, when i say middle ground, i mean considering ALL of the factors and potential outcomes and consequences of our actions.......show me how this administration has really ever done this. seems they identify a goal, for better or worse, and follow the first course of action that comes to mind. i do NOT, when i say middle ground, mean treating with, placating, or trying to empathize with jack asses like this iranian president and iran's crazy cleric club. they must be put in their place, period. but there are SO very many ways to go about this....and i am saying that our current administration seems intent upon choosing the loudest, least well thought out way.

for goodness sake....they determined that they wanted to go into iraq....did they pay heed to the MAJORITY of senior ranking general officers and military advisors?.....not at all. d. rumsfeld had his mind made up that it should be done "this way", and so it was done. the result?....an ill-concieved invasion with an even more poorly thought out occupation plan. should we expect anything different with this impending conflict with iran?....i say no.
 
Old Fuff said:
carlrodd:





I don’t think there is much of a middle ground when you are dealing with fanatics, and that was the point “Hillbilly” and I were trying to make. If you believe otherwise I think you are naïve.


I think I understand ... my thought was you sound rather fanatical to me, as does invading another country, or talking 1st strike with nuclear weapons. Just my personal view, certainly the minority view. I once heard a wise man say, "Violence is the refuge of an incompetent man." War sucks .... big time.
 
did they pay heed to the MAJORITY of senior ranking general officers and military advisors?.....not at all. d. rumsfeld had his mind made up that it should be done "this way", and so it was done.
Where did you find out the majority of high ranking generals were against going into Iraq?

but there are SO very many ways to go about this....and i am saying that our current administration seems intent upon choosing the loudest, least well thought out way.
What are the options when dealing with a country whose leaders have made it clear what they want and are going to do? They want to see Israel destroyed, the west out of the middle east and they are developing nuclear weapons. What do you not understand? I am all for talk and dialog, but it takes two willing parties to reach an agreement and they are not going to compromise.

Prepare for a conflict with Iran, because it looks like that is what THEY want.
 
GoRon said:
Prepare for a conflict with Iran, because it looks like that is what THEY want.

That may be, but WE cannot afford to enter it by conventional means only, while military specialists agree that policing after the "shock and awe" would be far worse than Iraq. So, a solution would have to involve nukes to be effective, yet the political price would be prohibitive. Hence, I fear the civilian grofaz's in WashDC will concoct some compromise monstrosity that would be the final blow on us as a world power. THAT is why going in Iran is insane.
 
I agree with Hillbilly. As much as the President and our politicians and MSM have made the effort to cloud over the real problem and placate the masses emotions I am afraid this is all going to end badly. The truth is we are fighting a totalitarian ideology. One based on a Religion. One of a deeply held belief system worse than the Nazi's. It is so evident for those who open their eyes. The reason these people comment suicide is relgious based. The reason they kill is not what we have been told-poverty,US presence in Saudia Arabia, Israel -Palestine conflict. It is their religion. Now no one wants to talk of this but not doing so may well be the death of the West. They are willing to kill themselves as they see it as a holy thing to do and as dying fighting for Allah and The House of Islam gets them directly into Paradise bypassing Judgement as they are judged on good works not Grace. This is why we have a BIG problem. We did not cause it. NO matter what the lefties say. Iran must be stopped from having a nuclear bomb. Will that solve the long term problem but it will buy time for what I am not sure.
 
Based on several discussions I've had with officers from another central Asian country, the majority of the people in Iran are not anti-American radical Muslims. They *are*, however, very nationalistic, and as Persians also somewhat anti-Arab.

These officers also felt that Iran was a bit of a North Korea wannabe -- they've seen how nuclear sabre-rattling out of NK has caused the west to treat them with some level of respect in the international community, and Iran thinks that this type of verbal bullying (probably backed up by some actual nuclear work) will help their world stature. Additionally, they know that they can affect the US economy in an instant with their oil production.

IMHO, it would be a big mistake to go punching them in the mouth outright. It would be smarter to let Israel do their thing, then see what happens.
 
The truth is we are fighting a totalitarian ideology.

Nope, not really... actually you're fighting several ideologies who again fight among themselves, too. Just think about the ongoing violent conflict between Sunnis and Shi'ites in Iraq. Throw in various tribal loyalties, different political party affiliations and Arab, Persian and Kurdish nationalism and you have a really, really complicated puzzle to solve.

A simple "us vs. them" just doesn't cut it.


Regards,

Trooper
 
Biker said:
The world really has gone crazy. I don't have the words...

I have a few:

The religious side of me says....Good the second coming of Christ is near.
The survivalist side says....How much for kerosene, a generator, and 5 cases of Wolf ammo in 5.56 and 7.62x39.
The capitalist in me says.....how much for that Big Mac.
The jarhead in me says....if I lose that 25 pounds will the Marines still take me at 37.
The political junkie in me says....why won't any real leaders run for office.
The investor in me says....buy oil stock and gold bullion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top