Is 5 or 6 really enough in today's world.

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@Old Dog , yet scroll back on this thread and there they all are plain to see.
They will tell you that once under attack your needs are identical in every way.

My position is only you know precisely when the recycling can rollout will actually occur.
Criminals seeking an opportunity specifically with you would need to perform a stakeout.
 
I find it strange that the 5 or 6 is enough guys carry reloads. Why? Your premise is that you don't need higher capacity guns, it's never been the case. So why carry a reload mechanism that is noticeably slower to use and harder to carry neatly - like a speed loader. Now, if you carry a pocket J frame or LCR, carry a speed strip which is low profile makes sense to have some extra ammo. However, reloading from that takes more time than a mag (spare me Jerry!. You ain't Jerry and don't carry his gear.)

If you think 5 or 6 is enough - no extra ammo for you. Also, again please sign on for the semi and mag bans with your governor and Joe. Only nuts want more!
 
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I find it strange that the 5 or 6 is enough guys carry reloads. Why? Your premise is that you don't need higher capacity guns, it's never been the case. So why carry a reload mechanism that is noticeably slower to use and harder to carry neatly - like a speed loader. Now, if you carry a pocket J frame or LCR, carry a speed strip which is low profile makes sense to have some extra ammo. However, reloading from that takes more time than a mag (spare me Jerry!. You ain't Jerry and don't carry his gear.

If you think 5 or 6 is enough - no extra ammo for you. Also, again please sign on for the semi and mag bans with your governor and Joe. Only nuts want more!

I am a Jerry want-to-be. :neener:

I am sure you have seen that before GEM, I can manage to 1-second reload when I try real hard with my USPSA competition gear. I can do that in about 2.0-2.5 second using my IDPA/concealed carry revolver.

I always carry a reload even when carrying a J-frame revolver because as unlikely as it is to need the gun is the first place and even more unlikely I am going to need to reload I still want that option just because I think of myself as a survivor. Also not every use is for a self-defense multi-round gunfight but you find yourself stranded in a remote area and those extra rounds become extra signal devices or an extra rabbit as you trek out of a remote location you never intended to get stranded in. Not all legitimate reloads are going to be while the bullets are flying.

But I am also not so deluded to think that some tactical Tupperware with a 15 round magazine is not a much better option. But I often choose my devices for reason other than optimal in the once in a lifetime gun fight and I am accepting of that disadvantage. I also refuse to overthink it based only on the worst case scenario.
 
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I'm getting into or out of my car at the local grocery store or gas station...

1) One or two guys who know what they're doing have me trapped between two parked cars. They quickly punch and kick me into the ground, grab my keys and wallet and drive off. I understand the point of this crime.

2) Three or four guys all whip out their pistols and open fire. They grab my keys and wallet from my perforated corpse and drive off. I do not understand this crime.

I get groceries about 200 yards from the local police station. The gas station is a little farther away, like 300 yards.

People get mugged. If some guys beat me quickly and quietly and immediately drive my car somewhere to be parted out, they will probably get away with it. I will file a police report and that will be that.

People only get murdered around here every couple of decades. I don't expect a group of individuals firing a lot of shots that close to the police station will be able to escape. If they do, they will be hunted painstakingly for months. The crime would be capital murder, with the death penalty.

I try to keep myself prepared for something similar to #1 above. That stuff happens all the time.

I don't worry about #2 above. There is no way to prepare for it, because you would be full of holes in moments. It doesn't even make sense as a crime. It's an odd thing to worry about.
 
A semi and one extra mag is not overthinking anything. Speed loaders in the woods for Smokey the bear is different. Competition gear isn't something I can wear to the store easily. I can wear a Glock and a mag easily. That's the decision matrix for me unless dress and NPE mandate a pocket J.

I've shot revolver matches plenty for grins and practice with the gun. I'm going to Thursday. Doesn't change my optimal carry (mentioned above).
 
A semi and one extra mag is not overthinking anything. Speed loaders in the woods for Smokey the bear is different. Competition gear isn't something I can wear to the store easily. I can wear a Glock and a mag easily. That's the decision matrix for me unless dress and NPE mandate a pocket J.

I've shot revolver matches plenty for grins and practice with the gun. I'm going to Thursday. Doesn't change my optimal carry (mentioned above).

These thread in general devolve into an over-thinking of it IMHO. Why is a semi and one mag optimal? Why not a sub-gun and two reloads, or a rifle, or a two shot derringer for that matter. There is no optimal there is simply a compromise we have convinced ourselves is sufficient. For me I have always carried a gun that has the same manual of arms as what I am shooting frequently in competition. No reason to waste all that muscle memory and practice by switching manual of arms for my CCW. That has certainly left me using less than "optimal" hardware but I am still convivence the Indian is more important than the arrow.
 
I find it strange that the 5 or 6 is enough guys carry reloads. Why? Your premise is that you don't need higher capacity guns, it's never been the case. So why carry a reload mechanism that is noticeably slower to use and harder to carry neatly - like a speed loader. Now, if you carry a pocket J frame or LCR, carry a speed strip which is low profile makes sense to have some extra ammo. However, reloading from that takes more time than a mag (spare me Jerry!. You ain't Jerry and don't carry his gear.)

If you think 5 or 6 is enough - no extra ammo for you. Also, again please sign on for the semi and mag bans with your governor and Joe. Only nuts want more!
So what if I ward off an attack with my 5-shot J-frame using say 3 rounds. Now I still am out and about, so could be attacked again. It is always wise to reload after expending some rounds. That is one reason we carry spare rounds.
 
I find it strange that the 5 or 6 is enough guys carry reloads. Why? Your premise is that you don't need higher capacity guns, it's never been the case. So why carry a reload mechanism that is noticeably slower to use and harder to carry neatly - like a speed loader. Now, if you carry a pocket J frame or LCR, carry a speed strip which is low profile makes sense to have some extra ammo. However, reloading from that takes more time than a mag (spare me Jerry!. You ain't Jerry and don't carry his gear.)

If you think 5 or 6 is enough - no extra ammo for you. Also, again please sign on for the semi and mag bans with your governor and Joe. Only nuts want more!

It sucks to have an empty gun, even if you don’t have to shoot it again.
 
We are all products of our experiences, or the experiences of the folks we respect/value. I did not get “Kilt In Da Streetz,” in the Eighties, when revolvers were my standard carry, while on street patrol, and during personal time. (Houston, Texas, an oil boom town, during a time when the rest of the USA was in recession, so, an INTERESTING TIME, in an interesting place!) I do, VERY MUCH, remember the morning I arrived at home, after a night of street patrol duty, unholstered my S&W Model 58 handgun, and heard its broken mainspring rattling about, inside the grip frame. So, I remain comfortable with revolvers, as carry guns, and, am MOST comfortable when carrying a second gun.

That second gun could be helpful, if six shots were to prove to not be enough, but, importantly, the second gun, if carried, is THERE, not somewhere else,

I know what is it like to be shooting a “qual,” in 1991, when the front sight of my pistol flew away from the slide. Again, this is not something that could be resolved, on the spot, in a real-world shooting incident, if a second gun were not present. (Actually, my Colt Commander fit my hands so well, I finished that qual, with a passing score, out to 25 yards, by “natural pointing,” looking over the slide, rather than through the sight “picture.” I had my S&W Model 60 snub-gun with me, of course, to complete my duty shift with at least one weapon that had sights*. Lesson: Carry guns that point well, in our hands, and with which we have trained, extensively. “Pointability,” and Familiarity, are so very important. A second, more important lesson is that parts, in general, can break, or otherwise fail. In the Eighties, it was a mainspring. In 1991, it happened to be a front sight.

Details on the two handguns: my S&W Model 58 had been manufactured in 1974 or 1975, in a run made for Antonio PD. The breakage happened in the 1986 to 1989 time frame. The Colt Commander was a new one, made only a year or so before the sight went flying. Of course, Colt front sights were not dovetail-mounted, in those days, but peened into place, so, the amount of metal involved in the failure point may have been quite small.

Yes, of course, a Glock, for example, with ten to seventeen rounds on board, offers the probability of more continuity of fire, than would a revolver. I am not arguing against Glocks, in particular, or against autos, in general, or, against double-column-mag pistol systems. I have some Glocks. I am about to drive into Uptown, and may well carry a G17 as my second gun. ;) Up-gun, when going into Uptown.

To be clear, I do not ALWAYS carry two guns, but, it is Continuity of Fire that matters, more than the in-gun ammo capacity, in and of itself.

*It was a night-time qual, but, the targets were illuminated. Finishing my shift, on the streets, I could have found myself having to illuminate an opponent with my hand-held light, and would have appreciated having a handgun with front AND rear sights.
 
Given that any gun can malfunction in a way that is not quickly corrected, carrying of two guns seems to be more important than carrying one gun with spare magazines. Of course we can carry two guns and spare magazines, speed strips, etc.
 
Recent incidents with more than one attacker:
Three robbers:
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/tacony-gas-station-deadly-robbery-shooting/3474348/
Two robbers:
https://www.wesh.com/article/daytona-beach-fatal-stabbing-robbery/42524900
Three robbers:
https://abc13.com/store-clerk-shot-...uston-police-airline-drive-shooting/12711073/
Two robbers:
https://wreg.com/news/local/man-robbed-while-buying-car-off-facebook-marketplace/

Now everybody can envision the possibility of having more that one attacker, right? Nooo, I aint that naïve. ;)

How this works... For someone content with low capacity or content with the notion of a single attacker, none of those count.
Possible reasons they don't count and this list is woefully incomplete:
-They don't work at a gas station
-In one the 2nd was a girl and she don't count
-They don't work at Dollar store
-They don't meet people to sell cars
-They don't live in Philly or Houston

A dozen examples won't matter because it wasn't their area, they don't do ____, they don't go to _____, criminals are immobile, psychic ability, ....
I aint wrong. :neener:
dancing-banana-banana.gif
 
Recent incidents with more than one attacker:
Three robbers:
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/tacony-gas-station-deadly-robbery-shooting/3474348/
Two robbers:
https://www.wesh.com/article/daytona-beach-fatal-stabbing-robbery/42524900
Three robbers:
https://abc13.com/store-clerk-shot-...uston-police-airline-drive-shooting/12711073/
Two robbers:
https://wreg.com/news/local/man-robbed-while-buying-car-off-facebook-marketplace/

Now everybody can envision the possibility of having more that one attacker, right? Nooo, I aint that naïve. ;)

How this works... For someone content with low capacity or content with the notion of a single attacker, none of those count.
Possible reasons they don't count and this list is woefully incomplete:
-They don't work at a gas station
-In one the 2nd was a girl and she don't count
-They don't work at Dollar store
-They don't meet people to sell cars
-They don't live in Philly or Houston

A dozen examples won't matter because it wasn't their area, they don't do ____, they don't go to _____, criminals are immobile, psychic ability, ....
I aint wrong. :neener:
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Don’t ever fly in a plane, drive a car, walk in the rain because 4 incidents, possibly a hundred more do not make the odds greater by any significant level based on a population of over 300,000, 000! You cannot prepare for everything, only the likely thing! A pack of Hyenas can take down the strongest Lion. Having 16 shots is a small factor when engaging multiple targets. Do you have the skill set to even attempt to clear a room? Maybe you do but you would be in the minority!
 
These thread in general devolve into an over-thinking of it.

I over-thought about this and cannot recall ever being witness to over-thinking on this forum.

Under-unthinking is the norm.
 
You cannot prepare for everything, only the likely thing!
Why would one think that a person can only prepare for "the most likely thing"?

Prudent risk management ientails addressing risks with serious potential consequences and some likelihood of occurrence.

On any one day, the odds of one's experiencing a violent criminal attack are minuscule. In any one year, they are unlikely. Over a lifetime, they are worth worrying about--on average
Do you have the skill set to even attempt to clear a room?
Off topic.
 
Might as well change the discussion to whether 10 round is enough.

The amount of rounds we feel comfortable with is indeed a personal choice. I lived a dozen years in the Third World and quickly changed from a S&W 64, that I was very fond of, to a Glock. I would have felt a little more comfortable with a belt fed MG3A1 and a Marder instead of a Nissan pick up - that is, until I would have had to fill the tank of the tank up :).
 
There's a reason these threads go on for 8 pages and counting with people not changing their minds. When I lived in the Chicago area I would question the wisdom of someone who carried a revolver as assaults by multiple assailants are common. I've heard all the arguments about situational awareness and how facing multiple assailants is a no win situation regardless of how many rounds you carry, but the fact is that if you're facing multiple attackers and can't escape, more capacity is better. That's one perspective. We moved to a small Wisconsin town a year and a half ago with no homicides 20 of the last 22 years. There were 10 one year and 13 another and no gang problems. If this is all you've experienced believing a 5 or 6 round revolver is sufficient is understandable. That's the other perspective I've seen. Good luck trying to get people who have only experienced one or the other to agree.
 
Why would one think that a person can only prepare for "the most likely thing"?

Prudent risk management ientails addressing risks with serious potential consequences and some likelihood of occurrence.

On any one day, the odds of one's experiencing a violent criminal attack are minuscule. In any one year, they are unlikely. Over a lifetime, they are worth worrying about--on average
Off topic.
That is how security is done. Prepare for likelihoods and deal with everything else. Like I said many times it’s more than your choice of weapon. The point is not sinking in. So I will let it be! I just want some to understand that 5 rounds or 16 make you no safer unless you know what you are doing and have put time, effort and thought into the total picture. It’s simple really!
 
I just want some to understand that 5 rounds or 16 make you no safer unless you know what you are doing and have put time, effort and thought into the total picture. It’s simple really!
That is obvious.

I do not limit risk mitigation to "the most likely thing".
 
Planning for "the most likely thing", sounds an awful lot like just planning and practicing to only kick people in the nuts in a fist fight.

Ive never understood not trying to prepare for the unexpected, or difficult, and only focusing on the one or two things that you do well, and/or are told to expect. All that does is severely limit you, and anything out of the norm will likely be a big challenge.

The idea is, or at least to me the idea is, to try and be as well versed in all sorts of things, so, even if its not something you might get, its still probably going to be close enough to something youve done before in practice in the past, and youre able to adapt to things without having to try and wing it, and/or going into vapor lock.

And again, its all about being prepared, not just having a gun. One gives you a chance, the other is just weight.
 
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