Is Federal’s New 30 Super Carry a 32 ACP Magnum?

[The Glockodile]

It needs a Duke Cannon kind of name. Very masculine name for the new female-dominated gun market. Should have put "Major" in the name, too. So competitve shooters know it's for them. "7.65mm Major" or "311 Major AutoCarry."

"Major AlfaMaleTacticuloCarry."

You must have a degree in Marketing from NYU.

Almost as good as my degree in Physics from M.I.T.!

 

[starling]

Really??

I'd say the absolute opposite. Perhaps we live in different realities. The 9mm surging again as the .40 and .45 lose favor. Sure the 10mm is having a resurgence, but that's to replace the .44 Magnum as the new outdoorsman's choice. What am I missing here?

9mm had a lot going for it and a lot of folks just want to streamline their caliber storage.... plus it was really cheap to buy bulk. 44magnum may be going out a little but that has more to do with revolvers going out because they are not tactical and cool enough for the new gen of shooters. Glock comes out with a 44amp and watch how fast it sells. 40 is slowing down because those that want .40 pistols want more and are going to 10mm... why not.

There are those that want smaller and weaker cartridges though. They drive hybrid cars and wear skinny jeans usually. CCW tends to be stuff like Ruger LCPs and Taurus Rectums. There is a market there and it conveniently crosses over to women so that good I guess. Makes things intergender and easier in terms of marketing.

Where something like a 30 super is going to have appeal in the long run will be to the same folks who love 32s&w, H&R, and 327 fed but are curious to switch to an autoloader. Maybe do a moonclip little J frame 3" trail gun that runs on moonclips. Possibly a beefed up Ruger MK2. Smaller game woods gun it has potential. I dont see it in a comp gun unless the ammo gets cheap.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

"Major AlfaMaleTacticuloCarry."

You must have a degree in Marketing from NYU.

Almost as good as my degree in Physics from M.I.T.!

Close. Engineering from UF.

 

[Jim Watson]

Possibly a beefed up Ruger MK2. Smaller game woods gun it has potential. I dont see it in a comp gun unless the ammo gets cheap.

Have to be beefed up a heckofalot, the 30 SC may be too small for you but it is a high pressure round. I saw a Mk II converted to .32 SWL wadcutter and it had a great big bolt knob to add mass to the blowback action.
It does not fit any competition niche I know of, maybe NRA Centerfire if they go by bullet diameter and not name, ISSF similarly.

 

[starling]

Have to be beefed up a heckofalot, the 30 SC may be too small for you but it is a high pressure round. I saw a Mk II converted to .32 SWL wadcutter and it had a great big bolt knob to add mass to the blowback action.
It does not fit any competition niche I know of, maybe NRA Centerfire if they go by bullet diameter and not name, ISSF similarly.

Maybe a mini original automag bolt and all.....Cost a bloody fortune. Deffinitly wouldnt pull off a straight blowback unless it was huge. Rotating barrel system maybe. None of that will happen of course but its fun to talk about.

I would be happy with a barrel for my 1935a. I have a 7.65 luger barrel for my P89 I used to play around with a little bit. Conversions are kind of neat. My Toks go back and forth between 9mm, 7.62, and 38 Super. Mostly shoot 9mm though like everyone else.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Maybe a mini original automag bolt and all.....Cost a bloody fortune. Deffinitly wouldnt pull off a straight blowback unless it was huge. Rotating barrel system maybe. None of that will happen of course but its fun to talk about.

I would be happy with a barrel for my 1935a. I have a 7.65 luger barrel for my P89 I used to play around with a little bit. Conversions are kind of neat. My Toks go back and forth between 9mm, 7.62, and 38 Super. Mostly shoot 9mm though like everyone else.

Funny thing is I just sold the last of my Tokarevs - a Chinese Type 54 - so now I’m done with that cartridge. Can’t really see getting into something new that’s so similar. Like Jim says, make it beefy enough for comp use and it’s too beefy for comp shooting.

 

[WrongHanded]

There are those that want smaller and weaker cartridges though. They drive hybrid cars and wear skinny jeans usually. CCW tends to be stuff like Ruger LCPs and Taurus Rectums. There is a market there and it conveniently crosses over to women so that good I guess. Makes things intergender and easier in terms of marketing.

If you were to post a poll on this site to find what the most common auto loading cartridge was for conceal carry, I think you'd find it's 9mm. Probably followed by .380ACP before .45ACP or .40S&W (though those two together might be more than .380). And this is a firearms forum where enthusiasts gather.

But the most recent stream of first time gun owners also represents a large market. And they've overwhelmingly made the same choice, from what I have seen. 9mm. That's not a consolidation of cartridges for owners with multiple guns, it's just going with what's already popular and considered to be effective.

So I really don't think the American public prefers larger calibers. I think they prefer whatever they believe is good enough.

I'm not claiming this information is 100% accurate, but here's some light reading on what's been popular: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-selling-guns-2020/

 

[starling]

Funny thing is I just sold the last of my Tokarevs - a Chinese Type 54 - so now I’m done with that cartridge. Can’t really see getting into something new that’s so similar. Like Jim says, make it beefy enough for comp use and it’s too beefy for comp shooting.

Sold your last Tok!... thats like a sin I think. Might want to pick up another given the chance to get back in Gods good graces. Dont be dumping your last Makarov... hell for sure on that one.

 

[C0untZer0]

What is the argument against necked-down pistol cartridges?

 

[The Glockodile]

What is the argument against necked-down pistol cartridges?

They be thicc...

Less rounds for a given amount of space.

 

[C0untZer0]

Oh

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Sold your last Tok!... thats like a sin I think. Might want to pick up another given the chance to get back in Gods good graces. Dont be dumping your last Makarov... hell for sure on that one.

I just started reloading Makarov again. I only have two - Radom P64 and Czech CZ82. But the cost of ammo is stupid high right now so if I want to shoot them, which I do, then I need to roll my own.
I will happily sell those two when the right offer comes around. The Chinese 54 I practically gave away because the buyers a good bud and nice kid. $350 for the gun and 3 mags. I had a total of $125 into it so it was practically a gift.

 

[WrongHanded]

What is the argument against necked-down pistol cartridges?

People seem to look at them in two ways:

1. Reduced capacity for the size of projectile. Which when coupled with the idea that only penetration and expansion are important, make them largely pointless.
2. A smaller projectile than they could hold, that makes a smaller hole.

Either way, the additional case space creating more velocity is largely overlooked. And they're seen as overly complicated for reloaders, and overly expensive to everyone else.

[.357 Sig is my favorite handgun cartridge, but that's not terribly relevant.]

 

[C0untZer0]

It seems like the cartridge was built for the SIG SAUER P365 form-factor, hoping that buyers will purchase that form-factor chambered in 30 SC believing that it basically does what 9mm Luger does as far as terminal ballistics, with basically the same amount of recoil, but you get 2 extra rounds.

 

[starling]

If you were to post a poll on this site to find what the most common auto loading cartridge was for conceal carry, I think you'd find it's 9mm. Probably followed by .380ACP before .45ACP or .40S&W (though those two together might be more than .380). And this is a firearms forum where enthusiasts gather.

But the most recent stream of first time gun owners also represents a large market. And they've overwhelmingly made the same choice, from what I have seen. 9mm. That's not a consolidation of cartridges for owners with multiple guns, it's just going with what's already popular and considered to be effective.

So I really don't think the American public prefers larger calibers. I think they prefer whatever they believe is good enough.

I'm not claiming this information is 100% accurate, but here's some light reading on what's been popular: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-selling-guns-2020/

Fads come and go. It used to be 40. First time gun owners are new to the scene. They dont even know what 357sig is. John Wick moves to 40s&w and watch what happens. I remember when everything was 38/357 or 45. Then wondernines got popular. People wanted more and chose 40s&w then back to 9mm. Nothing wrong with 9mm as an entry level cartridge for newbies. Its a good round. Military uses it... as a back up basically. LE uses it because they need something women and softies can handle.

Newbies really should be starting with 22lr. Build the fundamentals with cheap practice and move up. I think 9mm will stay on top but as these newbies get more comfortable and more skilled they will desire more performance from different cartridges. CCW in the eyes of the law does not matter if you carry a 25acp or 50AE. I like 9mm a lot but if I am going into dangerous area I am grabbing a 357sig or 40S&W and thats just because I dont have something bigger that can carry as easily while retaining speed and penetration. 460 rowland would be nice but I have not checked into his conversions lately to see what he is offering and I dont like running really hot and heavy stuff through 1911s. USP running 45super might be the best way to go.

 

[WrongHanded]

It seems like the cartridge was built for the SIG SAUER P365 form-factor, hoping that buyers will purchase that form-factor chambered in 30 SC believing that it basically does what 9mm Luger does as far as terminal ballistics, with basically the same amount of recoil, but you get 2 extra rounds.

Yep. And who's to say a lighter weight 8mm projectile won't do basically what a 9mm does? Apparently the 9mm does basically what the .40S&W does. At least according to some. Though, I'd assume the 30 SC will have less felt recoil than a 9mm, mainly due to the lighter bullet weight and listed energy comparison.

It's the same arguments all over again, which is really quite funny. Though I have to say, if it becomes popular, I'll likely replace my G42 with something similar chambered in 30 SC.

 

[starling]

I just started reloading Makarov again. I only have two - Radom P64 and Czech CZ82. But the cost of ammo is stupid high right now so if I want to shoot them, which I do, then I need to roll my own.
I will happily sell those two when the right offer comes around. The Chinese 54 I practically gave away because the buyers a good bud and nice kid. $350 for the gun and 3 mags. I had a total of $125 into it so it was practically a gift.

Selling to a friend is acceptable. God is cool with that. CZ82 is a nice pistol. I am a big PM fan because of design. CZ and PM are the best of the 9x18 IMO. I remember someone was converting those P64s to 32naa not long ago. Radom make good stuff. Radom Toks are the nicest from my experience.

 

[starling]

Yep. And who's to say a lighter weight 8mm projectile won't do basically what a 9mm does? Apparently the 9mm does basically what the .40S&W does. At least according to some. Though, I'd assume the 30 SC will have less felt recoil than a 9mm, mainly due to the lighter bullet weight and listed energy comparison.

It's the same arguments all over again, which is really quite funny. Though I have to say, if it becomes popular, I'll likely replace my G42 with something similar chambered in 30 SC.

Well of course.... 30 super will be an upgrade over 380acp. Why not just go with a 357sig if you like the round? Keep the g42 as a secondary.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Yep. And who's to say a lighter weight 8mm projectile won't do basically what a 9mm does? Apparently the 9mm does basically what the .40S&W does. At least according to some. Though, I'd assume the 30 SC will have less felt recoil than a 9mm, mainly due to the lighter bullet weight and listed energy comparison.

It's the same arguments all over again, which is really quite funny. Though I have to say, if it becomes popular, I'll likely replace my G42 with something similar chambered in 30 SC.

According to defensive pundits, the argument has been that .45/.40/9mm all have essentially the same terminal performance, so the 9mm wins based on capacity and controllability. If the pundits are intellectually honest, the same argument could be applied to the .30 SC if the claims of similar terminal effectiveness are validated. That what makes this interesting from a bystander role.

 

[fxvr5]

I'd assume the 30 SC will have less felt recoil than a 9mm, mainly due to the lighter bullet weight and listed energy comparison.

Recoil is a function of bullet weight and bullet velocity and gunpowder weight. Muzzle energy is irrelevant.

Therefore, the 30SC will have the same recoil as a 9mm since they shoot the same weights at the same speed.

 

[WrongHanded]

Well of course.... 30 super will be an upgrade over 380acp. Why not just go with a 357sig if you like the round? Keep the g42 as a secondary.

It is a secondary. Primary these days is either .357 Sig or, just the past month, 10mm.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

KelTec just brought out a new pair of Sub2000 PCCs in 10mm and .45ACP. Not sure if that’s relevant but it is an interesting coincidence.

EDIT: change that to is considering, not has brought out. I misread their post. Sorry.

 

[WrongHanded]

Recoil is a function of bullet weight and bullet velocity and gunpowder weight. Muzzle energy is irrelevant.

Therefore, the 30SC will have the same recoil as a 9mm since they shoot the same weights at the same speed.

But they don't necessarily shoot the same weight of bullet. At least not from what I've seen. 100gr is offered.

Here we see a 100gr bullet at 1250fps with 347ftlbs, vs a 124gr at 1150fps with 364fps.

https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html

And I think we all know that for a given cartridge running at max pressure, the lighter faster bullet grants higher energy than the heavier and slower bullet. So which generally produces more felt recoil, heaver for caliber or light for caliber?

It somewhat depends on the individual. But if the lighter and faster projectile is actually producing lower energy (which is the case between these two cartridges as loaded), it's reasonable to assume the felt recoil will also be lesser.

 

[fxvr5]

But they don't necessarily shoot the same weight of bullet. At least not from what I've seen. 100gr is offered.

Here we see a 100gr bullet at 1250fps with 347ftlbs, vs a 124gr at 1150fps with 364fps.

https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html

And I think we all know that for a given cartridge running at max pressure, the lighter faster bullet grants higher energy than the heavier and slower bullet. So which generally produces more felt recoil, heaver for caliber or light for caliber?

It somewhat depends on the individual. But if the lighter and faster projectile is actually producing lower energy (which is the case between these two cartridges as loaded), it's reasonable to assume the felt recoil will also be lesser.

Jesus Christ . . .

see posts 37 and 39 in this thread.

 

[starling]

KelTec just brought out a new pair of Sub2000 PCCs in 10mm and .45ACP. Not sure if that’s relevant but it is an interesting coincidence.

Those will be massive hits if they can hold up. Good to see they are getting away from all this rimfire stuff. I still dont have a p17 yet. They sure have been lighting fires all over the industry the last few years.