Loaded gun in the gun shop!?

[QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW]

i got laughed at by a guy who was looking at buying a WASR 10 a while back at my favorite pawn shop. i was buying some ammo and the guy next to me asked to see the AK.

the employee took it from the rack and made sure it was clear and handed it over to the guy next to me who proceeded to mount the rifle and have the muzzel right infront of my face then swept my head and torso a few times so i grabbed the muzzle and aimed it away from me. he then got mad and asked my problem. i told him i don't care if the rifle is unloaded i don't like having it pointed at me. he got all butt hurt handed the rifle back to the employee and left the store.

the store manager who i am friends with thanked me because he was making other customers uneasy and doesn't want the employee's to get in the middle of these things.

 

[MikkOwl]

That's a bad attitude. It's their store, their property and their business. It's up to them to make sure the customers are not subjected to unsafe practices with store owned property. Just firmly tell the customers to never let the muzzle aim at another person.

 

[scott.308]

That is just plain stupid. Things like that should never happen.

 

[RoostRider]

Too many people are used to being looked after like a helpless flock these days.
It is getting pretty pitiful. Not applying common sense is becoming far too common.

I could not agree more.....

You cannot rely on the public to be informed of gun safety

Bull. Realizing that pointing a firearm at a human being is impolite is simple enough for anyone who understands what a gun is. I am tired of making excuses for the stupid and ignorant, particularly the willfully stupid and ignorant.

While I agree with you entirely philosophically, you either haven't dealt with the public at all or you are just angry (justifiably) and spouting off.

If you rely on Joe Public to know proper safety before picking up a gun (which they may, or may not have any experience with), you are putting your life in some unknowns hands.

Unless you taut more regulations to keep people from even handling a firearm without some sort of certificate of firearm safety education, you have to deal with the reality of this. (even with a certificate of safety your pushing your luck with Joe Public)

You are responsible for your own safety, simply by virtue of the fact that some others will not be safe around you.... guaranteed... should there be penalties for acting in a wreckles manner to those around you, it certainly could be argued..... but even that wouldn't put your face back on after the rifle goes off...

Some people are criminally stupid, which is to say, so stupid that they are criminally negligent without intent..... how can you not weigh this in when dealing with everything from crossing the street to being around others handling guns?....

 

[jhco]

Deleted

 

[jhco]

Deleted

 

[thorazine]

Funny, both those guns look loaded to me.

In the second picture...

The cylinder is void of cartridges and you can see the chamber is clear.


Sorry -- you don't get any more unloaded than that.




Please answer my question -- how do you react in a gun store?


How do you respond to someone that asks you to show them a clear weapon? Based on your logic you could never hand someone an unloaded gun.


You would not be able to shoot at an outdoor range -- because your gun is always loaded.

For it would be unsafe to have shooters walking to their targets with loaded guns sitting on the bench.


Have you sold a firearm and had to ship it?

Then you shipped a loaded firearm -- which is unlawful right?

 

[Zoogster]

Unless you taut more regulations to keep people from even handling a firearm without some sort of certificate of firearm safety education, you have to deal with the reality of this. (even with a certificate of safety your pushing your luck with Joe Public)

The problem is there is already too many regulations resulting in a less educated population.
Children once learned gun safety at a younger age in general. Many High Schools once taught gun safety.
Because of all the regulations and restrictions placed on firearms you have a higher number of people without a clue who are handling firearms based on what they have seen in movies, games etc.

Then when the politicians do start requiring even more regulations to purchase, they often consist of so many unnecessary and unrealistic questions that the important ones are forgotten with all the rest shortly after the test.
Instead of remembering the 4 rules, they forget the politician created and anti influenced 99 rules.

 

[jhco]

Deleted

 

[jhco]

I don't care to argue about what you felt like I said.

 

[bigfatdave]

If you rely on Joe Public to know proper safety before picking up a gun (which they may, or may not have any experience with), you are putting your life in some unknowns hands.

Nope. I'm not buying that the concept of "end with hole make hurty" is beyond common sense. Anyone too foolish to figure that out on their own or with one polite reminder isn't worth being around. For that matter, how hard is it to find some basic gun safety information BEFORE wandering into a shop and waving firearms about? In 2009 there really isn't an excuse for complete ignorance - either look it up online or hit the library. For that matter, asking for some pointers from the employees is fine, but picking up a gun and having zero muzzle control is simple unacceptable.
Perhaps it is time to stop making allowances for those so foolish that they endanger the public.

 

[Shadow 7D]

OK, so now that the butt hurt contest on loaded vs. unleaded guns is commenced, how bout we formulate some nice responses, like

Point that away from me. Response
Ok I'll point mine at you Response
Well I know mine is loaded
It's called a deadly threat, which is assumed when you point a gun at somebody

etc.

 

[RoostRider]

I'm not sure if Dave is arguing with me, because I think he and I are on a similar, if not the same page... all I'm saying is expect the worst from Joe Public, and unless your going to stay out of stores that allow the public to handle guns, you gotta deal with it in some way.... to which end I propose what I originally stated....

formulate some nice responses

Exactly, although you left out my suggestion of quoting the rule, as a rule..... I honestly think a good share of people might easier take to a well understood and universally accepted rule than the 'output' from some local 'paranoid dude' who hollers at him about 'muscle?/muzzle? control' or something.... if you see what I mean....

I also think that stores employing a "I don't know you, so you get the speech" policy before handling guns is an interesting idea...... ( as suggested by some others)

 

[Lou McGopher]

Driving a car on the other hand is not a fundamental right in our book.

Not true. Driving a car is protected by the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

Be careful what reasoning you throw out in regards to what is or isn't a right. That same reasoning may come back to bite you, even in regard to what is supposedly protected by the 2A. We have all sorts of rights. They just aren't all listed in the first 10 amendments.


Anyhow, I've been swept in gun stores. Usually you can see the action is open on the firearm, and it's only a momentary sweep. I expect that sort of stuff to happen when you have a bunch of people in a confined area. But if someone is cycling the action, pulling the trigger, looking down the sights, whatever, then I expect the gun to be pointed away from anyone. If I saw someone pointing the gun at me while they were messing with it, I'd politely but firmly ask them to point it in a safe direction and not at me. If it happened a second time, I'd ask one of the clerks to do something if one were available. If not I'd sternly demand they quit pointing the gun at me, and I'd say it loud enough to get plenty of attention. Next course of action would be to leave the store without conducting any business.

 

[tdowell]

EVERYONE Should follow the 4 rules of gun handling!

Rule 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
The only exception to this occurs when you have a firearm in your hands and you have personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as you put it down, Rule 1 applies again.

Rule 2
NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY
You may not wish to destroy it, but you must be clear in your mind that you are quite ready to if you let that muzzle cover the target. To allow a firearm to point at another human being is a deadly threat, and should always be treated as such.

Rule 3
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about.

Rule 4
BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
You never shoot at anything until you have positively identified it. You never fire at a shadow, or a sound, or a suspected presence. You shoot only when you know absolutely what you are shooting at and what is beyond it.

 

[tdowell]

I was shooting at Arizona range in Ft Lauderdale. I turned around to throw out spent cases and here's this guy watching his buddy shoot, holding his rifle in one hand pointed right at me!
He gives me this stupid grin and shrugged his shoulders, and went back to being a spectator.
Could I construe that as a threat?

Anytime someone points a gun at you, its should be construed as a deadly threat, because, accident or not, IT IS A THREAT. You should have immidiately reported this guy to the range supervisor, if there isn't one on duty, LEAVE Immidiately. Don't get shot by some idiot!!!

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

ITT: a bunch of internet tough guys talk about threatening to shoot people because they accidentally sweep them with a muzzle.


Get over yourselves, guys.

The adult response is to say "whoa nelly; would you please not point that fire-arm in my direction? I know you think it's unloaded, but the rules are the rules"

 

[ScareyH22A]

If someone pointed a gun at me unintentionally, would I go to hell if I shot them?

 

[rainbowbob]

If someone pointed a gun at me unintentionally, would I go to hell if I shot them?

I don't know about that metaphysical consequence - but jail would be a real possibility unless you could demonstrate a reasonable fear of deadly assault.

 

[KBintheSLC]

So if all guns are loaded...

Do you crawl on your stomach when entering the gun store?

Hey Beavis... it is not a literal statement when they say "all guns are loaded". They are just saying "treat all guns as if they were loaded"... ya know... one of the most basic rules of gun safety.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Not true. Driving a car is protected by the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

Be careful what reasoning you throw out in regards to what is or isn't a right. That same reasoning may come back to bite you, even in regard to what is supposedly protected by the 2A. We have all sorts of rights. They just aren't all listed in the first 10 amendments.

Not necessarily... the 9th says that rights are rights even if not specifically named in the Constitution. However, driving is considered but most States to be a privilege, not a fundamental right. Actually, the word "privilege" is the exact legal terminology they use to discribe your permit to drive around here.

The 10th merely states that the Federal Gov's powers are limited to that which is specifically defined in the Constitution. It gives States the power of sovereignty... not sure how that could relate to giving you the "right" to drive a car.

The 2nd however, is very specific and "the people" are named directly therein. Only a manipulative, gun-grabbing leftist could twist it to mean something besides it's obvious intentions.

 

[Lou McGopher]

Yes, but suppose enough antis get in office and say, "You know what? There's nothing in the 2A that says you have a right to hunt. There's nothing in the 2A that says you have a right to operate a shooting range. And then they ban hunting and ban firing a weapon on anyone else's property but your own, except in cases of self defense.

You have a right to travel, unless you are a prisoner or a slave (and slavery is supposedly outlawed). How does one travel? Either by foot, by beast, or by machine. Traveling by machine is by far the most common, accepted way to get from point A to point B in this country. Supposed you were summoned to court for whatever reason, and the courthouse is 40 miles away from you. How would you get there? Pedestrians and livestock are prohibited from the interstates, as well as many other highways. They're also extremely slow compared to the automobile. Where would you tie up your horse at the courthouse, anyway? To a parking meter? Getting someone else to drive you there puts you at their mercy. Suppose nobody is willing to transport you? In such a scenario, the law has effectively infringed upon your right to travel, just not explicitly. It has done so by declaring something to be a privilege. For what basis is there to assume driving is a privilege when it is done upon public roads?

It's imperative we have an extremely low tolerance for classifying activities as "privileges," even when it isn't directly 2A-related. Eventually the same logic will be used to abridge the 2A in spirit if not in letter.

Concealed carry has been legislated as a "privilege," with no basis for such classification. Some states make it very difficult to get this privilege bestowed upon you. But if you open carry, you're harassed by the police. Thus, carrying a firearm is effectively prohibited by the state, without explicitly banning it.

 

[Tackleberry1]

"If you point your gun at me, I will assume you want to engage in a gunfight and I will act accordingly...."

I like that! I'm going to start using it!

 

[Shadow 7D]

It's not ITT thinking of shooting someone
reducing the argument to that is absurd and leads to the questioning of your point

HAVE YOU ever had a loaded gun purposely pointed at you?

The point of this thread, or atleast most of this page of it is more on how to respond to someone flagging you.

while shooting them would get the point across, most people would agree that words should be effective. So lets have a NICE open discussion on how to tell someone that they are doing a big NONO, with out having to resort to beating them with rolled newpaper like a puppy pissing on the kitchen floor.

 

[1911Tuner]

KB. He understands exactly what we mean. He just likes to argue. Please don't feed the trolls.