Looking at ARs for hunting. What to know?

[Sanderguy777]

well it was a touch over $1200 for the rifle so it's not budget but it's not a $2800 Daniel Defense either, the Sig whiskey 3 scope is a 2-7x32 I gave about $150 for which is plenty of scope for 200 yards

Thx! (And I saw it was for the whole kit 'n kaboodle. ) that sig scope sounds about perfect for me.

OP, you mentioned in your other thread being "in" California. Is that where you live? If so, that's going to affect your options....

For what you describe, IMO, you should just buy a bolt action in the cartridge of your choice (I'd go .308) and be done with it. You're not going to save any money getting an AR and different uppers for it. If you want an AR as a fighting rifle (you should. All Americans should) then get a good quality one in 5.56.

I live there, but I'm leaving ASAP. So I'll be able to do mostly whatever I want.
I agree that a bolt gun is a better option for hunting (ok, equally qualified for it, let's say). But I want the other caliber options since they let me get other uses from the sane platform. Once I get the base gun, even if I want a new caliber, I can get it for about $500-600 per caliber. So my initial build may be $1200, but everything after that will likely be more like the price of a ruger American.

And you heard correct about BCA's quality. You have have about a 70-75 percent chance of getting a good centerfire upper and a 50/50 change on their rimfire uppers.

I am going to make a suggestion that you either wait for better complete uppers or better parts are on sale. This is especially true when it comes to an upper that will be capable of shooting very small groups. I would not want to hamper the accuracy of 6 ARC or even 6.5 Grendel by going too cheap on the barrel. You don't have to buy top tier stuff but you also don't want the bottom of the barrel stuff either. I would suggest looking at Faxon or Odin Works barrels if you are wanting to build your own upper and are on a tighter budget. Since the 6 ARC is a very accurate caliber, it begs to have a better trigger than a GI trigger. The Larue MBT-2S is hard to beat for the money.

The 6 ARC uses the same bolt as the 6.5 Grendel. And some people get away with using 6.5 Grendel mags with 6 ARC while others do not. I have found that the ASC brand of magazines work well and are available with the correct 6 ARC followers. I know that ASC doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to 5.56 magazines but all of their 6.8 PSC and 6 ARC magazines I have work very well.

For your needs a 16" barrel will suit your needs. Now if you later decide to start shooting the 6 ARC at long distances then an 18" or longer barrel is better. The 6 ARC is very capable of shooting small groups.

I am running an Odin Works 18" barrel with +2 rifle length gas. The Odin Works barrels comes with an adjustable gas block, though I haven't had to adjust mine.

Here is my 6 ARC build

View attachment 1165071

And here is how the rifle shot with both 105 and 108 grain ammo

108Gr - Green and blue was getting it sighted in and yellow circle is a 5 shot group at 100 yards.

View attachment 1165072

105Gr - Yellow circle was a 5 shot group at 100 yards

View attachment 1165073

Great! Thanks! Any recommendations for a good lower? Not top end, but solid. Maybe a budget one I could upgrade, and one I don't need to.

My BCA has been great. Zero malfunctions and plenty accurate for deer hunting. I would certainly buy from them aagain.

I might go for their 5.56 upper. Not critical if it doesn't drive tacks, but also probably fine for my needs.

 

[bearcreek]

But I want the other caliber options since they let me get other uses from the sane platform.

Why does that matter though? $500-600 gets you the upper perhaps, but no sights or optics. Once you add those you might as well just have a dedicated rifle.

 

[12Bravo20]

Great! Thanks! Any recommendations for a good lower? Not top end, but solid. Maybe a budget one I could upgrade, and one I don't need to.

Any decent and in spec lower will work. I have used plenty of Poverty Pony (Anderson) lowers along with plenty of Palmetto State Armory lowers with out any issues.

 

[Gun-Reck]

IF? Was in the market for a woods hunting AR platform rifle?

SA SAINT Victor chambered in .308.

​

 

[irishlad]

Moving up to a large frame AR in 6.5 CM or 308 takes your rifle from quick-handling, light and handy to something that just isn’t much fun to tote around in the woods. The Ruger SFAR is another good option if you want a 308 class cartridge with the smaller AR frame.

My grandson loves his SFAR. It's very accurate with 168 gr AMAXs. He did need to put a H2 buffer in it.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Why does that matter though? $500-600 gets you the upper perhaps, but no sights or optics. Once you add those you might as well just have a dedicated rifle.

Yeah, but most of my shots can be done on open sights. I can get a cheap scope for less than $200 ant day of the week that would likely be fine.

And most of the other uppers I get would be "I want to try..." or just a plinking cartridge. Even if they all have a dedicated use, at most I'd need 2 optics. And for anything past 6mm ARC and 5.56 (deer and varmints), I don't really need more than a red dot and a $200 upper.

Any decent and in spec lower will work. I have used plenty of Poverty Pony (Anderson) lowers along with plenty of Palmetto State Armory lowers with out any issues.

Thanks! That makes it easier.

IF? Was in the market for a woods hunting AR platform rifle?

SA SAINT Victor chambered in .308.

​

I really like that. I think I'm going to go with their 5.56 though, and add a 6mm ARC upper and probably a prism optic. Then my varmint and deer guns will be set.

Anything past that will be a trigger upgrade, and a new caliber, maybe 7.62x39.

 

[MEHavey]

6.5 Grendel would suit your needs and fit in the AR-15 ... [lower]

^^^ THIS ^^^

 

[Shawn Dodson]

.300 BLK uses the same bolt as 5.56, whereas 6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel bolt, which means greater potential for bolt lug breakage.

.300 BLK will do everything you need it to do within your max 200 yd range, and you can probably swap the same bolt carrier group between .300 BLK and 5.56, as long as the bolt headspaces correctly between both uppers.

For hunting, I have 16" bbl uppers in .25-45 Sharps (a 5.56x45 case necked up to accept .25 caliber bullets) and 6.8 SPC. These are my primary general purpose big game hunting rifles. (6.8 SPC delivers better terminal effect than 6.5 Grendel out to 400 yds.)

(I also assembled a lightweight (7 1/4 lbs.) 18" bbl .308 Winchester "AR308" Aero Precision M5 for elk hunting.)

I use .300 BLK in an 8.5" pistol upper for CCW.

 

[Sanderguy777]

.300 BLK uses the same bolt as 5.56, whereas 6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel bolt, which means greater potential for bolt lug breakage.

.300 BLK will do everything you need it to do within your max 200 yd range, and you can probably swap the same bolt carrier group between .300 BLK and 5.56, as long as the bolt headspaces correctly between both uppers.

For hunting, I have 16" bbl uppers in .25-45 Sharps (a 5.56x45 case necked up to accept .25 caliber bullets) and 6.8 SPC. These are my primary general purpose big game hunting rifles. (6.8 SPC delivers better terminal effect than 6.5 Grendel out to 400 yds.)

(I also assembled a lightweight (7 1/4 lbs.) 18" bbl .308 Winchester "AR308" Aero Precision M5 for elk hunting.)

I use .300 BLK in an 8.5" pistol upper for CCW.

I know it's not the same thing at all, but 5.56 does a better job of penetrating steel than .300 aac. So it seems like .300 would be less effective, especially against bone in a deer or elk shoulder.

I'm sure that's not correct, but I'd be interested if you can say why specifically.


Why is 6mm ARC more likely to break? Bigger cartridges mean thinner bolt lugs? And how would I tell if the BCG would fit between uppers? Would it be likely to work between the same brand, just buy a different barrel and mag then see if it functions well with a snap cap or something?

My issue at the moment is that I have access to a pre-2012 savage 7mm rem mag and a mossberg .243 (which by all accounts is only good if you can touch the critter, and you still might miss LOL). I want something I can use that reliable and cheap, but still has plenty of power. .300aac is probably enough, but I'm a little worried that it will be too low power. How far have you hunted with it?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Why is 6mm ARC more likely to break? Bigger cartridges mean thinner bolt lugs? And how would I tell if the BCG would fit between uppers? Would it be likely to work between the same brand, just buy a different barrel and mag then see if it functions well with a snap cap or something?

A 6mm ARC boltface is very similar to a 7.62x39 boltface. The photo below shows the difference between a 7.62x39 boltface and a 5.56 boltface (note the broken lug on the 7.62x39 boltface at 5 o'clock):

You'll need to either buy headspace gauges or have somebody with headspace gauges to verify the 5.56 bolt headspaces correctly with a .300 BLK barrel.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I know it's not the same thing at all, but 5.56 does a better job of penetrating steel than .300 aac. So it seems like .300 would be less effective, especially against bone in a deer or elk shoulder.

.300 BLK from a 16" bbl has roughly the same ballistics as 7.62x39 from an AK.

There is no cartridge I'm aware of, that fits in an "AR15" platform, that should be used against elk at 200 yds.

 

[sisyphus]

6.8 SPC

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

If your wanting to hunt medium sized game and under. A light weight 6.5 Grendel is great and in the much less heavy AR15 platform. (This is 6.3lbs of deer / pig killing easy to carry AR goodness!).

 

[perldog007]

You seem price sensitive and you said "for most of my 100, maybe 200yd shots".

The 350 Legend is deer capable at over 200 yards .......

Now that is ambition. I prefer archery range, and try to avoid muzzle to horn match ups.
This is why I fell in love with the msr past age sixty.
I CAN take a small appalachian white tail at 150ish yards with just about any competent bolt action milsurp. 100 yards with a decent sks.
The AR platform can suit long range shooters, and lazy woods loafing point blank to hundred foot ambush artists like me.
The first deer I shot was point blank in the neck with a .22lr rifle, the hat rack and I just almost stepped on each other.
Went head down and I managed a mag dump, narrowly avoiding bladder voiding and bowel dumping.
Ten points, revovered a day later by another hunter who put it down hard.
The two I hunted and checked were small, but rest assured I had follow up capability that was not needed. 6.5 swede and hastings slug.
Mostly small game for me and the AR makes a very nice .22lr.
I find the .350 legend interesting and if dependent on venison would consider it.
Had I started young, probably would have one.
Also curious about 9x39, a friend designed some keith style bullet molds in .36 I have. Also in .454 so the legend would make a fine old fart project.
Only reloaded .45 colt w/Lee loader so getting into either should keep me out of bingo halls and off the streets.

 

[Sanderguy777]

A 6mm ARC boltface is very similar to a 7.62x39 boltface. The photo below shows the difference between a 7.62x39 boltface and a 5.56 boltface (note the broken lug on the 7.62x39 boltface at 5 o'clock):

You'll need to either buy headspace gauges or have somebody with headspace gauges to verify the 5.56 bolt headspaces correctly with a .300 BLK barrel.

Ok, makes sense. I'll probably just get a dedicated BCG, but it's good to know that's an option.

Is breakage like that common? And are there ways to avoid it? Because 7.62x39 and 6mm might still be rounds I'm interested in later, and I'd rather not have to find pieces of my rifle falling out LOL

.300 BLK from a 16" bbl has roughly the same ballistics as 7.62x39 from an AK.

There is no cartridge I'm aware of, that fits in an "AR15" platform, that should be used against elk at 200 yds.

Ok, good to know. Then the 7mm will be going with if I get an elk tag.

 

[d2wing]

Thanks! That's great info! I knew the .223 was ok for deer, but it's a little on the light side. I was hoping for something a little more powerful. The .223 was more of a "this is cheap, and I can't get the rifle without it, so..." By no means useless, and I plan to use it for varmints and targets, but it's good to know that that rifle in particular (1:8 barrel) would be ok for deer if I chose to just get it.


Yeah, I understand. And that means I'll just get one or the other. I was initially leaning towards the ar10 platform because I could get all the good old cartridges like .243, and .270, but then I was looking and found that the 6.5 is easier on the shoulder, and about $0.30 a round cheaper on the low end. Also seems to have a ton of options available too, and there's no shortage of barrels available for ar10s (and I thought ar15s, too).

So POF is completely beholden to their own uppers, or are there other compatibility issues as well? And would you say their reliable other than the 307 (did you mean .308?)

 

[d2wing]

I have had excellent results with Del'Ton AR kits sub 1.5 moa accuracy and no issues. I have killed some big Minnesota deer with soft point. 223 ammo. For more range and power I would go 6.5 Grendel or similar.
I would rather carry a bolt action than an AR if I wanted to go to a 308 class round. I now shoot a Tikka T3 in 7-08.

 

[Sanderguy777]

I have had excellent results with Del'Ton AR kits sub 1.5 moa accuracy and no issues. I have killed some big Minnesota deer with soft point. 223 ammo. For more range and power I would go 6.5 Grendel or similar.
I would rather carry a bolt action than an AR if I wanted to go to a 308 class round. I now shoot a Tikka T3 in 7-08.

Yeah, that's probably the way I need to go. AR for small stiff, then anything really powerful doesn't make sense out if a 2+ moa gun.

 

[InTheSwamp]

Lots of good info on this thread. Personally, I would go 6mm ARC, or 6.5 Grendel Upper for my type of hunting - brush, swamp, tree stand. The AR-10 is too bulky for that.

 

[Varminterror]

6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel bolt, which means greater potential for bolt lug breakage.

Guys have been banging this drum online for 20yrs, but while the theory sounds great, in practice, we really don’t see increased rate in failure of Grendel/ARC bolts, or even of x39 bolts…

 

[Sanderguy777]

Lots of good info on this thread. Personally, I would go 6mm ARC, or 6.5 Grendel Upper for my type of hunting - brush, swamp, tree stand. The AR-10 is too bulky for that.

Ok, that's what I'm thinking too. Probably 6mm ARC. I'll make my final decision after I get to MO, but I'm leaning towards a cheap lower and nice 6mm arc upper. Maybe toss in a factory. 223 Wylde complete kit, and then add the 6mm to that. At least I'd have a working rifle from the box, and know what it's supposed to work like.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Guys have been banging this drum online for 20yrs, but while the theory sounds great, in practice, we really don’t see increased rate in failure of Grendel/ARC bolts, or even of x39 bolts…

Kind of what I was wondering about. I've never heard a thing about the 6mm breaking bolt lugs, and if it happened, I imagine it was more to do with the ammo used than the round it was meant to handle being too much. It's a SAAMI approved cartridge, so theoretically it should be safe.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Kind of what I was wondering about. I've never heard a thing about the 6mm breaking bolt lugs, and if it happened, I imagine it was more to do with the ammo used than the round it was meant to handle being too much. It's a SAAMI approved cartridge, so theoretically it should be safe.

6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel type II bolt, which is a 7.62x39 (Type I bolt) with a deeper boltface (0.136" vs. 0.125").

These bolts (type I and II) have a documented history of greater bolt lug breakage and extractor breakage. A simple Google search will verify this claim.

If you choose 6mm ARC, then I suggest keeping a complete spare type II bolt and a spare extractor or two. Make sure the bolt you get is "type II" because the headspace is different that type I.

BCM and SOLGW bolts are individually magnetic particle inspected (MPI) and individually high pressure tested (HPT) to detect flaws that can cause breakage. Many other companies offer MPI and HPT bolts but BCM and SOLGW are probably the more economical choices.

 

[ECVMatt]

I am not sure if you reload, but this is a great bullet for smaller deer inside of 200 yards:

Speer 70 Grain SP

I have personally killed over ten deer and many more pigs with this bullet. I would have no problem shooting at most things with this bullet out of a 16" + barrel inside of 200 yards. Check out the reviews on Midway for additional information.

It might be an option to give you some time to think more about the 2nd upper.

 

[Sanderguy777]

6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Grendel type II bolt, which is a 7.62x39 (Type I bolt) with a deeper boltface (0.136" vs. 0.125").

These bolts (type I and II) have a documented history of greater bolt lug breakage and extractor breakage. A simple Google search will verify this claim.

If you choose 6mm ARC, then I suggest keeping a complete spare type II bolt and a spare extractor or two. Make sure the bolt you get is "type II" because the headspace is different that type I.

BCM and SOLGW bolts are individually magnetic particle inspected (MPI) and individually high pressure tested (HPT) to detect flaws that can cause breakage. Many other companies offer MPI and HPT bolts but BCM and SOLGW are probably the more economical choices.

Thanks! Yeah, it makes sense, I just hadn't heard of it.

I don't see either company making 6mm arc parts. Is the bolt or BCG the same as a 7.62x39?