M1 Garand vs. M1 Carbine

[Inner Monkey]

Say whatever you want. I have slept with an M1 Carbine next to my bed many times. If you are using it for personal defense load a couple magazines with Corbon DPX & sleep well.

The advantages for a REMF rifle/carbine is that we are all more for less REMF’s in our personal lives.

The light weight & easy handling inside a house or building is hard to beat.

My M1C is made by US Postal Meter. It is a WWII vintage GI gun. I have a bunch of 15 round magazines for it & a few 30 rounders. I prefer the 15 round magazines. They function better & are the size of a cell phone.

I will say this, you may be under gunned with an M1C compared to a guy with a FAL or other battle rifle. But almost anyone with a modern defensive pistol will be under gunned compared to an M1 Carbine! Unless you carry a S&W .500 that is…

 

[rojoko]

The M1 Garand is called 'THe queen of battle". This is a 30-06 semi auto gas operated rifle, capable of shooting accurately up to and including 1000 yards (if tuned). And I've done so many times. THe Garand has a magazine well that holds an 8 round enblock clip.... which you need to get used to.. they bite! Fine rifle, the 14 was better, but the Garand is a fine rifle.

The M1 Carbine was made for offficers that could not master the .45 pistol.. which does take work and practice. It's a "carbine" which means it has lousey hitting power/knockdown power... is really a bad choice for serious work.. and self defense.. the one and only time I had a carbine while taking AK fire.. I was extremely unhappy.. and would have even rather had a 9er.. which I also don't care for. The carbine fires a 110 grn bullet (ball) at high pistol velocities while the M1Garand fires a 147 grn (ball) bullet that travels at roughly 25-2700 fps.. and hits like a 30-06.. HARD!

The carbine is a very short range weapon.. and as noted the Garand can shoot out to 1000 yards accurately!

Don't waste your hard earned bucks on a Carbine.. not worth it.. although I did love one for shooting rabbits when I was a kid...

 

[Magwa45]

The carbine is useless

Years ago I thought about getting a M1 carbine for pig hunting. My 1st Sgt told me to forget about it. He shot a couple guys in Vietnam with one and they just kept running. So if you want something for plinking, fine. But if it is for serious work, forget about it!

 

[arthurcw]

That's right. The M1 Carbine is worthless. Please do not get one.












Leave them for me.

 

[rojoko]

The M1 Garand is called the "Queen of battle rifles"... used by the US Army was well as many others since the 40's. Also issued to many countries through the MAP program.

THe Garand is a Gas operated 30-06 rifle, capable of shooting accurately out to 1000 yards.. with tuning. If you're shooting US Military Ball, you're firing a 147 grn bullet traveling at at least 2500 Fps. Hitting power is supperb,, accuracy is nice even with a box stock Garand, a tuned Garand will give you accuracy out to 1000 yards..

THe Garand uses an 8 round en block clip system which was not the best, but great for it's time (the M14 fixed it's problems and was the next incarnationof the Garand). The Garand is a fine rifle, the M1 Carbine is just that, a carbine, not a rifle and never inteneded to be.

The M1 Carbine was made to issue to officers that could not master the .45 pistol.. a sad statement, but true... easier to shoot a rifle then a pistol.

The Carbine is woofully inadequite for self defense and/or hitting power. I don't care about the nonsense you'll see about "Penertration".. I want someone to go down if I shoot them, because I will place the bullet where I want it to go.. you can't depend on a carbine and the single time I've ever been shot at while in posession of a carbine, I was extremely unhappy... I would have even rather had a 9er.. (And UZI where I was). The Carbine does feature one nice thing, the original issue magazine was 15 rounds and not the enblock clip of the Garand (which bites if you're not careful). THe later Carbines had a 30 round clip which was prone to causing jambs, especially with the M2 Carbine with the selector switch.. a loverly toy to play with, but not a real dependable weapon if and when you ever need one...

Yes, when I was a kid, I had a carbine and loved to shoot rabbits with it... that's the nicest thing I could ever say about it1

But my prefered rifle is an M14 or M21 (accurized 14).

 

[rojoko]

Carbine Vs handguns

Hoss, the way I've seen most people shoot the carbine, I'll keep my .45 and not worry about being outgunned... After all the ammo I've shot/practiced, I place my shots... that's what counts.

Of course then again there was this guy who walked into my friend's gun store and when he heard us talking about shooting a Palma Match (1000 yards) he told us how he also shot out to 1000 yards.

First thing I asked him was: "What kind of rifle"
Answer: M1 Carbine
I said while biting my tongue: "Look out the window and show me how far away 1000 yards is
Answer He pointed to something about 50 yards away

God love Carbine shooters!

(Nothing personal)

 

[Father Knows Best]

It's the myth that will not die.

Look, I'm not saying the M1 carbine is the equal of the M1 Garand, or any other full size rifle for that matter. If your standard of comparison is the .30-06 or 7.52x54R, anything is going to come up short. And you certainly wouldn't hunt tough game like boar with an M1 carbine. But if you need a compact carbine for personal defense against soft targets inside 100 yards, the M1 carbine is an excellent weapon that will get the job done. It's in the same league as a short barrel AR-15 or a .357 lever rifle. All of them make excellent close quarters defensive weapons, but you wouldn't want to equip an infantry squad with them and you're not about to go bear hunting with them.

I've got both bigger and smaller rifles, and they all serve their purposes. My collection includes an AR-50, an FAL, a G3, several Garands, Swede Mauser, an 03A3 and an AK. All are more potent weapons with longer range than my M1 carbine. I also have a couple of pistol caliber lever guns, and three or four .22's, all of which are less powerful than the M1 carbine. Which is best? Depends on the situation. I wouldn't hesitate to use the M1 carbine, though, if I needed something to defend myself and my family against intruders.

Anyone who claims the M1 carbine round is weak and effective is welcome to demonstrate their convictions by getting shot by one. Of course, there are tens of thousands of Germans, Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese who didn't live to tell us how weak and ineffective the round is.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

Ya gotta have both.
Since I am trying to get examples of the major (American at first) small weapons of the 20th century, I have to have a carbine. Different rifle, different purpose, different thing altogether.

I sold my Garand. I know that is sacrilege, but it just never inspired me.

I don't EVER want to hear you say that again, ever!

 

[20yearvet]

The M1 Carbine was made to issue to officers that could not master the .45 pistol.. a sad statement, but true... easier to shoot a rifle then a pistol.

I suspect there were other, more valid reasons that the M1 Carbine was made other than this one.....

 

[toecutter]

So, for all you hardcore M1 garand people out there.... If you were being overrun by zombies would you want your high powered 30-06 with 8 rounds, or 30 rounds of M1 carbine?

Seriously though, I don't understand the abject hatred of the carbine. I've had one for years, I now have several. Granted, it's not a "marksman" rifle it's a carbine. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges, sure they're both fruit but does that make one any better than the other?

I recently took some rounds up and ran them through my cronograph. I was getting about 2200FPS from a 110gr FMJ. That puts it pretty close to the 7.62x39.

I really wonder why I hear so much talk about how X cartridge is inferior to another. I also wonder why some are so die-hard about the AK platform. It strikes me that most of the people who have spent time shooting at the enemy with X cartridge have only so much to compare it to.

Such as: "well, I shot that guy with the M1 carbine, and he didn't go down, so now I carry a .308" Regardless of whether he's shot anyone with a .308.

Guns make people dead. Different cartridges just do the same thing at different ranges.

 

[alamo]

The M1 Carbine was made to issue to officers that could not master the .45 pistol.. a sad statement, but true... easier to shoot a rifle then a pistol.

I suspect there were other, more valid reasons that the M1 Carbine was made other than this one.....

The original intent of the Carbine was to issue to rear echelon troops so they'd have something more than a pistol for defense and something with longer reach & easy to carry. Front line troops started using them too.

 

[stoky]

So, for all you hardcore M1 garand people out there.... If you were being overrun by zombies would you want your high powered 30-06 with 8 rounds, or 30 rounds of M1 carbine?

I'd rather have my Garand, albeit with a few extra clips.
I'd rather have my 870.
I don't hate carbines. IMO if you don't have a battle rifle or a carbine, get the rifle first.

 

[Wedge]

A first (well second hand) Carbine stories.

My wife's grandfather when in the Army in WWII, stationed in Africa, weighed a whopping 125lbs. and was about 5'10"

The Garand was way too big for him when he was issued that.
He had to do guard duty one time and though the M1911 was going to topple him over and that the recoil was very high
Then he got sick (yellow fever) and was in the infirmiry for a month and was issued an M1 Carbine when he got out and loved it.

My own grandfather shared the same sentiments. The Garand was too big to carry all day, he didn't mind the M1911 (and "aquired" a few other handguns of German and Italian pedigree while serving in Italy) but really liked the M1 Carbine as it was light and handy. My grandfather was about the same size (125-130lbs. and 5'10").

 

[molonlabe]

He shot a couple guys in Vietnam with one and they just kept running.

Id say he missed

Cause if ya hit one of the little people with one they went down.

 

[cane]

I've heard all the 2nd/3rd/4th hand stories about bullet proof ChiCom clothing in Korea. Notice no one says "I was at the Chosin and shot a ChiCom with my carbine and the bullets wouldn't penetrate his quilted jacket". Taking a tour of SEasia after high school and before college I had occasion to personally carry and use an M-2 carbine in combat. We carried carbines because our PFs and RFs did along with BARs, M-1 Garand, and Thompsons. Anyway with 24 months in country, it never let me down. A couple of points, the full auto is very difficult to control, and the 15 round magazines are more reliable and handier than the 30 round ones.

 

[Father Knows Best]

Actually, there were indeed major problems with the M1 and M2 carbines in Korea, but it wasn't a matter of ammo underperformance. Rather, the problem was the tendency of these carbines to jam in extreme cold. If the M1 and M2 carbines earned bad reps in Korea, that's why.

 

[Old Time Hunter]

Bought two M1A "carbines" at a rummage sale an old farmer had darn near 25years ago. Cost me a whopp'n $20 bucks cold hard cash. They were still in a GI issued shipping box filled with straw and 'bout 15 clips, 10 of which somehow held 60 rounds (had to flip them after 30 were fired). The markings om the box show them being shipped to US Army munitions depot, Savanna Ga. from Bremmen, GR on April 12th 1946. The old farmer said he worked at the depot and when he mustered out had an opportunity to acquire surplus used WWII munitions, so he managed to get a few boxes. Didn't know what happened to the other stuff, but this old box laid in his basement for over thirty years.

They are terrible guns! Eat ammo without conscience. I go through a couple of hundred rounds each session, just terrible!!!

My late father-in-law served in WWII from June of 1942 until January 1946. Saw action in North Africa, Italy, and later in West Europe. Wounded in all three theaters, hence he managed to get transferred to three different armies. He had three purple hearts and one cross of valor, and was also recommended for the Congressional Medal of Honor for above and beyond duty while with the 3rd Army in January of 1945. Unfortunately he was also demoted from 1st Lt. to SSgt. for the same action he was recommended for.
Anyways, on the subject of Garand vs. Carbine my late father-in-law always when given the choice, would defer to the Carbine. He would say it's effective rate of fire and quicker acquisition was always more important in a fire fight than the actual "killing power" of a larger cartridge. Anyone who has been wounded in battle, knows that their ability to engage is seriously inhibited, generally making them ineffective.

His actual favorite weapon of choice, was the "Tommy Gun". Unfortunately every time he acquired one during the War, a superior officer would take it.

 

[Father Knows Best]

Great story, Old Time Hunter. They are "M1 carbines", though, not "M1A" carbines. "M1A" is a trademark of Springfield Armory, Inc., and is used on their semiauto replicas of the M14 rifle. There is an M1A1 carbine, but that's the version with the foldind (paratrooper) stock.

I've heard the same thing about the Thompsons. They were the preferred weapon of lots of GI's, but they were in very short supply. They are also heavy mothers. I had the honor of shooting a real M1A1 Thompson a few years back, and it was a blast, but I sure wouldn't want to have to lug that thing around for too long.

 

[Old Time Hunter]

FKB..thanks for the roses and sorry 'bout the wrong detail classification of the "carbine". Never been one of my stronger suits, I am a lever gun affectionado, yet classify all '94 Winchesters as model '94's without breaking them down to "Legacy's, Trapper's, and such". Just one of my quirks.

You are also correct, just pulled 'em out of the safe. On the front top of the receiver it says " U.S. Carbine cal.30 MI" and on the back, under the rear sight it says "Underwood" on one and "Winchester" on the other, along with serial #'s.

 

[Baba Louie]

So, in essence, what you guys are saying is that I need to buy both guns? sounds good to me.

Excellent summary. Then you too, can join in the never ending M1 Carbine love/hate relationship discussion.

In Audie Murphy's book "To Hell and Back" (IIRC) he seemed to do just fine using his "lucky carbine" (and any and every other weapon at hand). He must have been one hell of a shot.

They are fun. They are small. Good looking. But they are what they are.

And as you stated above, you should own one of each.

 

[DMK]

My dad was on destroyers in the south pacific. One day, they guys decide they are sick of the ship's food and are going to go on one of the islands and get some fresh meat. They come across a boar who decides he's going to take on three sailors and get some fresh meat of his own. As the boar charges, the CPO leading the expedition empties an entire clip of FMJ into him without stopping the animal. The other guy finally stops him with a few rounds of 45ACP.

Guess which gun the CPO had?

I'll give ya a hint: Ping!

 

[mindwip]

Guess which gun the CPO had?

I'll give ya a hint: Ping!

If your saying that the CPO had a M1 Garand. And a boar did not go down from 8 rds of 30-06. But 2 rds of .45 stoped it. Um no. Someone needs to learn to shoot

Animals dont feel pain, well they are not affected by pain like humans(like they dont go down from pain only fatal shoots, same as humans hoped up on drugs). So if the CPO only hit non-killing spots on the boar then yeah it will not go down.

 

[fatelk]

I bought my Underwood M1 Carbine for $115 when I was in high school over a decade and a half ago. I remember trying it out shooting at empty milk jugs. We walked up and were surprised to find a bullet just lying inside the jug. I concluded in amazement that it didn't have the power to even punch through both sides of the jug! That is until I realized the sights were off, the bullets were hitting the ground several feet in front and one just happened to richochet into the milk jug.
Many thousands of rounds later, it is one rifle I won't part with. There are better rifles for hunting, self defense, or combat, but mine is a plinker and a piece of history, and I appreciate it as such. It was made by a typewriter company the year my dad was born.
As far as ammo, some of the surplus component dealers have pulldown bullets, brass, and powder at very reasonable prices. It is an easy round to load, I know from lots of experience. Buying components in bulk I figure about 9 cents a round, not including brass. It seemed high when 7.62x39 was 8 cents loaded, doesn't seem so bad now.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I rescued a .30 cal carbine Winchester that wound up at a gun shop. I traded the owner another rifle for it. When I took it apart Bubba left me a couple of nice holes on the left side of the receiver and a brand new barrel that had never been headspaced to the gun. Gas nut threads barely hangin in there. Long story short and a lot of TLC she is running fine. and shooting cans.

 

[DF357]

You need both. I shoot my Winchester carbine much more than my Garand.

At 50 yards I can make touching holes with it.

To look at the two you'd think the Garand was simply shrunk and had a magazine stuck up it's butt ! They are very similar in appearance except for size.