Man arrested for (legally) open carrying AK47, scaring people.

[poor_richard]

Personal attacks are not warranted. You can disagree with someone's position, without having to then attack them personally.

I seem to remember another thread that was closed because someone voiced agreement with a poster's profile statement of being a JBT.

Calling someone who stands up for the 2nd Amendment through activism an "assclown" is not a personal attack, and is totally acceptable on "The High Road". Affirming someones personal statement about themselves in their profile is unacceptable on The High Road.

BTW: I wouldn't carry an AK while walking the hood just because I would feel it might look a little dorky, even if I could do so without infringement. Calling someone who does it just because it's a right (activism) an "assclown" sounds very much like hatred, and as such borders on bigotry. Just my $.02.

 

[hornadylnl]

Don't forget that calling Joe out on his profile is exactly what got the last thread locked. I find it disturbing that the first thread was locked for calling Joe out on his own discription of himself and on this thread, a mod called for an end to name calling of the neighbors from the incident that this thread is about. He mysteriously left out the ak owner. Is it okay to call the ak owner names?

I make it a point not to be seen with my weapons outside of my home. Not because I might scare someone. I could really care less if someone got scared. I just don't want them to see what I have.

Does this guy carrying the ak help the RKBA? Maybe not. But how does throwing him under the bus in hopes to preempt another attack from the antis help us? The "I don't sell assaut weapons to those under 21 because I don't feel they are mature enough to handle them" diatribe is crap. I believe that shop owner was just trying to placate the media and look good in their eyes. Why do gunowners keep forgetting that the antis and the media are not our friends? Nothing you say in front of them will make them change how they think about you. "You own a cap and ball revolver? You're just a time bomb waiting to blow up innocent women and children!!!!!"

 

[hornadylnl]

poor richard -"I seem to remember another thread that was closed because someone voiced agreement with a poster's profile statement of being a JBT.

Calling someone who stands up for the 2nd Amendment through activism an "assclown" is not a personal attack, and is totally acceptable on "The High Road". Affirming someones personal statement about themselves in their profile is unacceptable on The High Road.

BTW: I wouldn't carry an AK while walking the hood just because I would feel it might look a little dorky, even if I could do so without infringement. Calling someone who does it just because it's a right (activism) an "assclown" sounds very much like hatred, and as such borders on bigotry. Just my $.02."

Finally someone else puts into words exactly what I'm thinking. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if this is a pro 2a forum or an offshoot of Brady. I seriously think that Joe, John, and the others are the old guys who sit around and complain all day about how terrible our youth are and can never find a nice thing to say about any of them. Guess what Grandpa, your elders thought the things you did were crazy or what have you because your times were different than theirs.

 

[Joe Demko]

Let me simplify: When you exercise a right with no further goal than to shock and provoke others, you may be doing nothing illegal, but you are abusing that right. Educate others about guns? You really think that this guy had an urge to educate others and decided the best way to do that was walk around the, apparently upscale, neighborhood with an AK? Even if that was his goal, it would seem he did a bad job of it. The neighbors were alarmed and called the cops. His pedagogical methods need re-tooled, I think.
"Educating others." That's exactly what the Nazis, the KKK, and NAMBLA claim as their goal when they are at the center of one of their periodic controversies, too.
Let me tell you something: I routinely ignored gunlaws for many years before the pendulum swung in favor of legal CCW. I carried a handgun in areas where it was absolutely illegal to do so. I have always put my personal safety ahead of obeying the law. In all those many times over many years, I never once had any trouble with the po-po. Here's why: I didn't make a show out of having a gun. I didn't brandish it. I didn't tell anybody about it. I didn't flash it. I didn't try to "educate the public" with it. I also didn't do anything else stupid, exhibitionistic, or outre´ to cause somebody to call the cops on me resulting in a search.
The public and the law have gradually been leaning our way on the gun issue. Foolish actions, even ones cloaked as education, are no help.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

I "AM' one of the 'old guys'... I carry 'n wear whatever I want 'cause I no longer care what anybody 'thinks'. I say what I think 'cause I'm no longer worried about my popularity (anywhere). I see 'youths' who are doin' the same things I did at the same age... including volunteering to go off to an unpopular war. I'm also a rabid 2A supporter for anybody who can legally and responsibly own/carry a firearm of any kind in these United States.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

Demko... you're assuming 'intent'. (Same as the complainant an Po-Po did.) You're assuming his 'intent' was to shock and or provoke. This guy may have just been comin' from a friends house down the block. Pulling the magazine was apparently an attempt at appearing non-threatening. That said... whatinhell was he arrested on Disorderly Conduct for?

 

[Joe Demko]

You can call me Joe or Mr. Demko or Joe Demko. Is this calling me just by my last name supposed to intimidate me or is it just laziness?

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Somewhat Literal Minded

Matt King: (From Demko's personal profile):
"Occupation:
Juvenile Indoctrination Technician, Jack Booted Thug

So much for 'personal attacks'. That's how he describes himself.

Guys, an intentionally ironic self-description is one thing, to adopt childish literalism about it is quite another.

I read it and see the humor.

Some of you read it and use it as justification for personal bashing.

May I respectfully ask that we put that aside.

Joe evidently thinks the guy exercised bad judgement.

Some others of us disagree.

Let's see if we can focus on the argument and leave the personal stuff out.

Discuss the topic, not the people in the discussion.

 

[poor_richard]

Finally someone else puts into words exactly what I'm thinking. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if this is a pro 2a forum or an offshoot of Brady. I seriously think that Joe, John, and the others are the old guys who sit around and complain all day about how terrible our youth are and can never find a nice thing to say about any of them. Guess what Grandpa, your elders thought the things you did were crazy or what have you because your times were different than theirs.

Nevertheless, it is up to the owner's of this board as to how they want things run around here. I was just pointing out the way things seem to be.


Funny, I always thought the "Nazi" mentality was to restrict peoples rights, not stand up for one's or everyones own. I agree that doing things just to "shock" people doesn't help, although I currently see no reason to assume that to be the case in AL. However, "shocking" people cannot be avoided after all the MSM propaganda over the last 40 years that SR has mentioned. Shall Issue laws would have not made it very far if that sort of attitude were fully employed. If you don't want to take that risk, it is understandable. I've often wondered why it is that people have such hatred for those who do stand up. The only answer I could come up with is "cowardice". They're afraid of standing up themselves (for one reason or another), but more importantly, they are afraid of either someone scrutinizing them (throwing the AK/AR owners under the bus in hopes of avoiding the anti wrath), or they are afraid of their own lack of courage being brought to light by someone else's open display of it. Many colonists disparaged the founding fathers for rebelling against the King.

 

[HonorsDaddy]

My $0.02

IMNSHO, this appears to me to be just one more example of human behavior. Let me explain...

A certain percentage of people see a need to denigrate some group or another in order to feel superior. In our generation it is gun owners, and to a more public degree, people who smoke. In previous generations it was blacks or the Irish, or women, American Indians, Jews, or {insert identifiable group here}. The same excuses are used as well: "Its up to the courts to decide" or "I have a right to feel safe" or "these people are dragging down the value of my property" or "I don't know what his intention was and i don't care. He scared me"

Just as people in the 50's and 60's didn't feel they were encroaching upon anyone's rights by saying blacks had to sit at the back of the bus or not live in certain neighborhoods, they feel confident saying no one should be carrying a gun in public.

To those people, all I can say is, well...its not high road material.

Yes, we MUST assume someone carrying a firearm in public is engaging in innocent behavior. No, i really DON'T care if some of the people here think he was being stupid. Frankly, that attitude disgusts me. It is no different than saying that a black man should have realized he was being stupid by drinking from a "white's only" water fountain.

It is not up to the courts to decide if a legal action deserves punishment. Yes, this was a legal action. Arresting a man because he might have done something wrong is far more wrong than anything he could possibly have done.

This is the price of liberty and freedom my friends. It means letting your neighbor do as he wishes as long as it doesn't harm another, no matter how distasteful, while accepting the risk that harm may eventually come of his actions. No, your sorry butt being afraid of something does not constitute harm.

To those of you in the more densely populated sections of the country, yes - you do live on a different planet. What is odd to you is not odd to those in the more sparsely populated areas and vice-versa. For example, i think not owning a car is downright weird, but people in NYC consider it normal. Need i say more?

Sorry for the rant, but I've had about all i can stand of whiny gun owners who think (just like a certain ex-columnist) that because they wouldn't own a certain item or do a certain thing that it must be wrong, and therefore illegal and deserving of arrest.

 

[poor_richard]

Joe evidently thinks the guy exercised bad judgement.

Some others of us disagree.

Let's see if we can focus on the argument and leave the personal stuff out.

It seems he also thinks someone should be arrested for "just exercising their rights", and that "just exercising my rights" is not a good enough reason to keep people out of jail for exercising them.

Not to be presumptuous, forgive me if I misconstrued the meaning.

 

[hornadylnl]

Joe, your blatant disrespect for the 19 year old ak owner doesn't deserve any respect from me to you. You would throw this guy under the bus to make yourself look better to the antis because you don't want to exercise the right to open carry in public like the ak owner did. What will you think when it is deemed abnormal in society to exercise the 2a in whatever capacity that you do? The attack on the 19 year old ak owner doesn't affect you so you are all for it. You say you blatantly disregarded the law because you didn't like it but blast a guy who was obeying the law. Double standard here?

Joe, when I was in the Army, it was wraught with the old soldier attitude. The older guys had no respect for the younger guys because they couldn't beat us like their superiors did them a long time ago. When I got promoted, the custom was for every one in your platoon who outranked you to beat your rank into your chest with no pinbacks on it. The entire platoon outranked me for all 3 of my promotions. Did it permantly scar me? No, but what was the point of it? Because they had it happen to them? When it was my time to "congratulate" those I outranked when I got promoted, I simply walked by, shook their hand, and said congratulations. You see, I believe in making things better for those who come up behind me. We have parents out there who deny their children oppurtunities not because they can't afford it but because they didn't get to do those things when they were younger.

Our founding fathers cared about their posterity and had everything to lose but little to gain. It was worth it for them to give their children and grandchildren a better life than what they had. Maybe it is time for you to adopt the same attitude for the younger generations and help preserve their RKBA instead of insulting them.

Comparing what this guy did with the acts of the KKK just reeks of class.

 

[poor_richard]

Yes, we MUST assume someone carrying firearm in public is acting in an innocent manner. No, i really DON'T care if some of the people here think he was being stupid. Frankly, that attitude disgusts me. It is no different than saying that a black man should have realized he was being stupid by drinking from a "white's only" water fountain.

I'm sure some people were shocked when Rosa Parks sat in the "whites only" section, and being shocked by such was a perfectly rational reaction in that particular situation. Thank God she had the courage to "shock" people.

 

[eltorrente]

It's interesting how people on this board react. A guy walking through a neighborhood with an AK47 shouldn't be given another thought. Nope, perfectly normal behavior. Yet, some unarmed drunk wandering into their yard should be presumed guilty of malevolent intent and vaporized with maximum firepower.

I guess I'm a sheeple. I view things in a context. I see a guy carrying an AK47 in the parking lot where a gun show is being held and don't give it a second thought. If I spot a guy with an AK coming down my residential street, I'm going to get my family inside the house. I should *assume* he's harmless?! What kind of situational awareness is that?

I feel exactly the same way.

If some guy is walking down my street with an AK47, I'm gonna wonder what the heck he is doing, and I would call the police.

I wouldn't think, "Oh that's nice, he's exercising his 2nd amendment rights - good for him..". I would be worried about what this guy is doing or planning on doing.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

You can call me Joe or Mr. Demko or Joe Demko. Is this calling me just by my last name supposed to intimidate me or is it just laziness?

No Demko... it's a habit borne of 20+ years active military service... and bein' a cop. We never went on a first name basis. Only people who got Mister were Officers. I don't think you've ever been military... or a cop... much less an Officer. People call me by my last name all the time... and I prefer it. You get your panties inna wad over the slightest thing don'cha?

 

[budney]

Let me simplify: When you exercise a right with no further goal than to shock and provoke others, you may be doing nothing illegal, but you are abusing that right.

I wouldn't put it quite that way, but I agree. I'd say, "you may be doing nothing illegal, but you are doing nothing to enhance that right."

The RKBA is inalienable. But that inalienable right might well be violated by a majority of Americans, in the form of gun control or outright banning. That's why we care about our impact on the rest of the populace. Their dislike of firearms won't change our inalienable right--but it might well lead to that right being denied us. And unless we plan to start a revolution over it, we're basically going to be SOL. That's unjust, but it's a fact. We'll moan about it, and we'll be right where the majority is wrong--but we'll still be disarmed.

Going down the street with an AK slung over your shoulder may or may not be such a big deal in the scheme of things, but in general anything we do that convinces regular people that gun owners are irresponsible, erratic or otherwise pose a danger to the public will bring us closer to the elimination of our RKBA.

--Len.

 

[hornadylnl]

"I feel exactly the same way.

If some guy is walking down my street with an AK47, I'm gonna wonder what the heck he is doing, and I would call the police.

I wouldn't think, "Oh that's nice, he's exercising his 2nd amendment rights - good for him..". I would be worried about what this guy is doing or planning on doing."

Are you saying we need thought police now? We should hire mind readers to stop someone from commiting a crime before they do it?

 

[poor_richard]

If some guy is walking down my street with an AK47, I'm gonna wonder what the heck he is doing, and I would call the police.

I wouldn't think, "Oh that's nice, he's exercising his 2nd amendment rights - good for him..". I would be worried about what this guy is doing or planning on doing.

Again, most of the people on this board is suggesting that the cops shouldn't have been called to check the guy out. This has been said enough times that I wonder if you've read the thread in it's entirety. The problem is that they went to his home after the fact, and arrested him for something else after getting someone else to file a complaint about it.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

So... we are to have viewing acceptable openly carried weapons vice viewing unacceptable openly carried weapons? What spawns this irrational fear? The kid was minding his own business... Not hiding anything. (Unlike a certain hypocryte detractor who admittedly has carried a concealed loaded weapon in obvious violation of the law.) 'not like the kid was carrying at port arms with a ski mask or somethin'. When are y'all gonna accept a magazine fed firearm as just another rifle? Would it be any different if it'd been an HK... AR... or Mini 14?

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Guys, an intentionally ironic self-description is one thing, to adopt childish literalism about it is quite another.

Guys, read the above. If it doesn't make sense, read it again.

Then go look up "self deprecating humor" and "tongue in cheek".

If I hear one more "But Joe Demko's a jack booted thug because he said so" whine, I'm closing this thread. And I may remove some posters.

You've been warned.

 

[Joe Demko]

(Unlike a certain hypocryte detractor who admittedly has carried a concealed loaded weapon in obvious violation of the law.)

Nope. Not hypocritical at all. It was exercising my 2nd Ammendment right to keep and bear arms in as positive a way as I could under the circumstances. Nobody was harmed. Nobody was alarmed. No cops were called. I wasn't arrested.
Go back and read through this thread and you will note that I haven't criticized AK-boy for breaking the law. Really, go back and re-read. I've also stipulated that it was his right to carry the rifle. So, try to address what I have criticized:
1. The way he chose to exercise that right i.e. the context.
2. His possible underlying motivation for doing so.

You might also address my point that exercising a right is not automatically a good thing. I've already given several examples of why I think that. Another, enormously polarizing, example: a woman's "Right to Choose." Everybody certainly agrees on exercising that right, hey?

Frankly, I don't care what your employment history was, nor do I care to discuss mine with you.

 

[eltorrente]

So... we are to have viewing acceptable openly carried weapons vice viewing unacceptable openly carried weapons? What spawns this irrational fear? The kid was minding his own business... Not hiding anything. (Unlike a certain hypocryte detractor who admittedly has carried a concealed loaded weapon in obvious violation of the law.) 'not like the kid was carrying at port arms with a ski mask or somethin'. When are y'all gonna accept a magazine fed firearm as just another rifle? Would it be any different if it'd been an HK... AR... or Mini 14?

It's all about the context of the situation. It's out of the ordinary, and a little strange to see someone walking through the neighborhood with an AK47. Period. Some people have a higher threshhold for what they consider strange or out of the ordinary, though.

What if you were having a barbecue or a birthday party and there were people out in your yard having a good time. You look over and notice a guy, dressed in urban camo, with a rifle standing on the roof of a building looking down at your party, and he is looking closely at everyone with binoculars. Would you think that was kinda strange and creepy? Would you just say, "oh look at the nice man excercising his rights. That's great!"? Woudn't you think he was a little "off" and get worried he is planning something - maybe even *gasp* call the cops?

This of course is an extreme, and wasn't what the guy was doing. But the point is that in a typical neighborhood there are all sorts of people who are gonna get real nervous to see someone walking along with an AK47. We all know our rights, but most of us know not to push it. That is just a strange thing to do, but if you want to walk around with a rifle, shotgun, or AK, then go for it- but don't be surprised when you scare someone and they call the cops.

 

[poor_richard]

This of course is an extreme, and wasn't what the guy was doing. But the point is that in a typical neighborhood there are all sorts of people who are gonna get real nervous to see someone walking along with an AK47. We all know our rights, but most of us know not to push it. That is just a strange thing to do, but if you want to walk around with a rifle, shotgun, or AK, then go for it- but don't be surprised when you scare someone and they call the cops.

Calling the police for walking with an AK is not unsubstantiated. Suggesting that it is automatically grounds for arrest on trumped up charges is (epically when he was no longer walking the streets). I'd still like to hear more on this story. I'd like to hear why they thought he was such a threat that called for such treatment. And no, walking with an AK is no valid reason for suggesting that he is a threat. There needs to be more. Until we hear more on this case, it is difficult to determine if the police acted appropriately or not. Until such time, saying that one party or the other was wrong is inappropriate. Speculation is one thing, but outright accusation is another.

 

[BigRobT]

IMO, I think it all boils down to the fact that folks need to know their applicable state laws. In MN, it's suggested that because I have a carry permit, I could walk down the street with a rifle, locked, loaded, and slung without a problem. HOWEVER, I don't think I would want to be a test case. I own two AK Clones. What strikes me more odd is that, here in MN, people are walking down the road with loaded long guns all the time during hunting season. They aren't given a second look. Are they in violation of state law?? Probably. Does blaze orange give people some right that the kid in Alabama didn't have?? I would like to think not. All in all, I think people overreacted. Like I said before, I would change conditions and keep a wary eye on anybody toting a rifle or shotgun through my neighborhood. As long as they appear to be "just passing through" or "on their way home", I see no major problem. For the record, I live in the city limits where we cannot hunt nor discharge a firearm other than in self defense. I see little difference between toting a long gun and those that carry legally. (MN has no provisions that require a person to carry concealed). I think that this young man had some pissed off neighbors that overreacted. I'll be interested to see the outcome of this story.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

Somebody onna roof in that get up would give me pause... "n I'd prob'ly vacate my yard 'n call the law. Just walkin' down the road with a slung weapon (with or w/o a magazine) wouldn't bother me at all... 'Course... Mobile AL ain't out here in the 'Wild' west where stuff like that is acceptable... even if it's not common (as in everyday). This is my 'neighborhood' 'bout a half mile east of here: