Mobil 1 Synthetic

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The whole point of the CAS registry is to eliminate the confusion created by all the different ways to categorize substances that you listed and provide only a single, specific, registry number for each particular substance.
I see no way that a CAS number could be reasonably generated for each specific ester variation.
Again, providing specific numbers for specific substances is the entire point of the CAS registry.

That is why there are currently almost 40 million numbers assigned and approximately 4,000 additional numbers assigned daily.
 
Simple mind, simple ?

OK. I've been reading the thread for awhile and now I'm confused with the use of Mobil1 as a lubricant. So here is my question? Starting with a clean firearm, you just received a Warning Order for a raid in a hostile environment that is to go down in two hours, it's in a wooded area and may involve some movement through the tulle's....OK. which one would you entrust to keep your weapon running....and your life. CLP, EZZOX or Mobil !
I'm not being sarcastic about this.
 
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"Unleaded gasoline" is CAS 8006-61-9

So it is not unknown for blends of variable composition to carry a CAS number. I still think that the case with PAO lubes.
 
So, we've got two votes in favor of the idea that a company put together (and sells access to) a chemical registration system that contains 40 million identification numbers that don't actually identify specific chemicals at all.

All right, sarcasm aside, let's say, for the sake of argument, that there are some CAS numbers that refer to "blends". (The fact that unleaded gasoline has a CAS # doesn't actually require this concession. The fact that what gets sold as unleaded at various stations is different in composition doesn't mean that the CAS# refers to different compositions, it would make more sense to say that it refers to a base ingredient that various vendors add additional ingredients/additives to before they sell it.)

1. Even if that's true, it in no way implies that all CAS numbers refer to blends. It certainly doesn't mean that the particular CAS number under discussion refers to a blend.

2. Using the example provided, it's worth noting that all unleaded gasoline blends have very similar, essentially identical properties. So even if we accept the idea that a number might refer to a blend that certainly doesn't imply that the physical properties of various instantiations of the blend would be measurably different.

More to the point there has been absolutely zero evidence provided that the particular CAS number under discussion refers to a blend instead of a specific chemical.

So, is it POSSIBLE that CAS# 68649-12-7 refers to a blend. I suppose so. But it's far more likely that it doesn't given the nature of the CAS registry. And even if it does that is not evidence of any significant difference in physical properties of the various blends.

One thing is certain, the CAS doesn't refer to the entire range of PAOs, because there are there are many other CAS numbers that refer to different PAO formulations. Here are a few examples.

68649-11-6
68037-01-4
16958-92-2
151006-62-1
151006-63-2
which one would you entrust to keep your weapon running....and your life. CLP, EZZOX or Mobil !
My guess is that they'll all keep the gun running properly.

The EEZOX and Breakfree will do a better job of keeping the gun corrosion free with the EEZOX having an edge over the Breakfree in the corrosion protection department and the Breakfree having an edge over the EEZOX in the lubrication department.

And if you end up having to clean your gun with what you've got on you at the end of the day, either Breakfree or EEZOX can be used as cleaning solvents.
 
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havoc7usmc: said:
OK. I've been reading the thread for awhile and now I'm confused with the use of Mobil1 as a lubricant. So here is my question? Starting with a clean firearm, you just received a Warning Order for a raid in a hostile environment that is to go down in two hours, it's in a wooded area and may involve some movement through the tulle's....OK. which one would you entrust to keep your weapon running....and your life. CLP, EZZOX or Mobil !
I'm not being sarcastic about this.

havoc7usmc,

Taking you at your word and assuming the question to be one posed in earnest and not sarcasm, I'll give you my answer to the question that you have posed.

I have used M1 for well over ten years now, probably closer to thirteen truth be told, though I cannot give you an exact date, as a lubricant for both my personal firearms and my issued duty weapons each of which has performed faithfully and flawlessly ever since.

My issued sidearm has varied over those years where I have employed M1 20w50 as a small arms lubricant from a S&W 5906 (which I now own) to a SigSauer P226 to a Glock 17. Additionally, my issued Remington 870 and for the four years that I was assigned to our Special Operations Div., my issued MP5, was also so lubricated.

All of these duty weapons were lubricated exclusively with M1 20w50 and saw typical use ranging from sector assigned street patrol duty to Special Operations duty (warrant services for fugitives, methamphetamine labs and drug houses) depending on which period of my career in L.E. is being considered.

My issued weapons were exposed to all manner of environments and I never saw any rust or corrosion on any of them or suffered malfunctions due to the lubricant that I was using. In short, I have used M1 on all of them without issue or concern.

Now retired from the L.E. field, I still routinely carry a 9mm Glock 17 for CCW/personal defense (under LEOSA2004) purposes and it too, is lubricated with M1 20w50.

I have been on safari in Tanzania (Selous, just across from the Ruaha National Park on the Ruaha River) where I shot two Cape Buffalo, one of which charged from 60 meters out to within less than 15 feet of me before it finally fell after sucking up 7 solid hits as he came for me, from my .375 H&H and M1 did fine there even with the blowing dust and sandy grit.

I have been in Alaska on black bear hunts and M1 did fine there even when the rifle that I was using was damp with moisture that eventually froze on its exposed surfaces.

I have been on several hunts throughout the U.S. that occurred in varied terrains ranging from densely wooded areas to the plains (Montana) and M1 did fine there, too.

So I have (and always will) trusted my life several times to M1 and given the chance to do it over again, which I would happliy do, I'd still use M1.
 
Thanks gunslinger

That's what I was looking for...real world. I have used CLP/BreakFree for years and never really had a problem with it and can say it did perform well, even in the sand box but the key to that was to flood your weapon when it got pretty gummed up and had no time to clean..GYSG (""grab your #%&@ and go" moment), only problem was you needed to have it on hand. So, in short, I'm going to try M1 on my firearms. I'm retired too and my gun slinging day's are over...until some heathen breaks into the bunker.

Thanks

Guns - out
Semper Fi
 
Havoc,

Always welcome.

I'd be interested in hearing your impressions, if after using M1, you've any to share.

Best to you,
 
Will test M1 this weekend

Gunslinger, I'm going to clean my M4 with mineral spirits and then apply M1 and fire around 150 to 200 rounds. I know this is by no means a real test but it will give me a some what of a comparison between BF and M1 for a short test. From what I've read I really have no doubt that M1 and will earn a spot on my cleaning bench. I'll let you know how it went after testing.
 
havoc7usmc,

I think that you will see a difference using Mobil 1. As posted here, I have been using 20w50 Mobil 1 for a while on all of my firearms, and I think that it runs especially well on my AR.
 
I have used Mobile 1 on a lot of my firearms and it works great. I haven't had any issues at all with corrosion. I'm using weapon shield on them all now but when that runs out I'll go back to Mobile 1.
 
Kingmax, are you sure it wasn't LSA (Lubricant Small Arms)
The mosquito repellant in basically the same little green bottle worked well in a pinch on a dry M-60. or M219.
 
Gun Slinger,thank you so much for this thread and i appreciate all the experience that you have provided here.I was wondering if a could ask you a few questions.I had been using a 3 in 1 oil and after running out and about to order something a bit more specialized,i was given a little bit of weapon shield by an old ex-military freind of mine.However,i am almost completely out.My questions are rather simple.


1)Instead of using Mobil 1,is it perfectly ok to use Motul 300v factory line double ester 15w50 4t? i can't imagine why not and i already use that on an Aprilia superbike that i have.

2)Do you coat the outside of your firearms as well with the Mobil1? If so,what does it do to where you holster said firearms?For example,what would it do to a tactical t-shirt?Does it eventually stain or soak through reaching your skin? Have you ever had any adverse affect from prolong contact? What does it do to leather holsters? I have heard many times of using motor oil for gun lubrication but up until now have not been close to using it.

3)Could motor oil eventually damage any other materials used on firearms? Like for example,the blueing on certain guns,the polymer coating on CZ pistols,the wood stock on certain rifles,the gunkote over parkerized on others.Obviously,i'm not going to deliberately apply it to wood but over time it could make constant contact with it.How about the acrilic coating that was applied to wood to make it look nice.Would it over time contribute to disintegrate it? How about the paint on certain parts like the sights or markings?

These questions apply to the Motul above but i suppose it could apply to any motor oil.

I'm thinking along your lines and consolidating on using Shooters Choice polymer safe formula and Motul but i'll sneak in one more question that is sort of unrelated. What do you use as a bore cleaner for copper deposits?

Once again,thank you and keep up the good work.
 
Gun Slinger, thank you so much for this thread and i appreciate all the experience that you have provided here.I was wondering if a could ask you a few questions.I had been using a 3 in 1 oil and after running out and about to order something a bit more specialized,i was given a little bit of weapon shield by an old ex-military freind of mine.However,i am almost completely out.My questions are rather simple.

priler-

Thanks for nice words. I am glad that you have found this thread to your liking.

I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.


1)Instead of using Mobil 1,is it perfectly ok to use Motul 300v factory line double ester 15w50 4t? i can't imagine why not and i already use that on an Aprilia superbike that i have.

I don't see why not. I have used RedLine, Castrol and Penzoil Platinum in a pinch and they all performed well. I prefer M1 20w50 (VTWIN) simply because it has a lot of MoS2 and ZDDP (EP/AW additives) in it and its operating temperature range (-60F to +518F) is the widest that I've been able to find.

2)Do you coat the outside of your firearms as well with the Mobil1? If so,what does it do to where you holster said firearms?For example,what would it do to a tactical t-shirt?Does it eventually stain or soak through reaching your skin? Have you ever had any adverse affect from prolong contact? What does it do to leather holsters? I have heard many times of using motor oil for gun lubrication but up until now have not been close to using it.

My CCW weapon is a Glock 17 and doesn't require a lot of lubrication to begin with so my gun is not dripping with it. I do apply a very light coating to the outside of the Glock 17, but most of it is removed when I wipe the pistol off with a clean dry shop rag prior to holstering it. The important thing to remember when lubricating any firearm with whatever you have chosen to use is not to use too much and to follow the operators' manual. PAO ester will not harm holster leather or any garments (aside from possibly staining them if you don't use stain remover) and I have gotten M1 on my carry gear (personal and departmentally issued) several times without suffering any damage to those items. I have never suffered an ill effect arising from the use of M1 20w50. Of course, it is unused M1, not used motor oil which can be very toxic and carcinogenic so please use brand new oil to lubricate your guns.


3)Could motor oil eventually damage any other materials used on firearms? Like for example,the blueing on certain guns,the polymer coating on CZ pistols,the wood stock on certain rifles,the gunkote over parkerized on others.Obviously,i'm not going to deliberately apply it to wood but over time it could make constant contact with it.How about the acrilic coating that was applied to wood to make it look nice.Would it over time contribute to disintegrate it? How about the paint on certain parts like the sights or markings?

While such damage is possible, PAOs/POEs are actually pretty inert and relatively innocuous. PAO is also the chief constituent of Break Free CLP and that gun specific product is designed for use on any and all guns. As for wood, it can and will absorb oil especially if it is not sealed and can be damaged if over-exposed to any oil. Make sure to wipe it off and don't let it set on the wood for any length of time and you should be fine. I also suspect that most firearm's oils (including M1) can eventually cause damage to certain finishes like the polyurethane and lacquer coatings on wood stocks by causing yellowing and embrittlement over the long term. GunKote, which was also marketed as GearKote, is probably the most compatible with M1 since it was orignally designed for use in environments that could subject it to exposure to automotive petrochemicals. (motor oil)


These questions apply to the Motul above but i suppose it could apply to any motor oil.

I'm thinking along your lines and consolidating on using Shooters Choice polymer safe formula and Motul but i'll sneak in one more question that is sort of unrelated. What do you use as a bore cleaner for copper deposits?

Sounds like a plan. I use either Hoppes #9 Copper Remover or Shooter's Choice Copper Remover. Both are excellent products and will get the job done. Because they contain high levels of ammonia they can damage nickel plated surfaces so make sure that you know what you are doing.


Once again,thank you and keep up the good work.

Thanks. Hope I answered everything to your satisfaction. :)
 
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Just idle speculation: I seriously doubt that any "gun oil" is subjected to the qualification testing against published standards that all motor oils must pass. This does not address the suitability of motor oil for firearms, only that anything can be called "gun oil".

I use Eezox for cleaning and protection and Redline 15-50 Racing Oil for lubrication. I have some bolt guns that have stood vertically in my safe for more than six years since oiled and the bolt lugs and raceways are still wet with Redline when I pull them for inspection.

I use Boretech Eliminator for copper removal followed by Eezox for bore protection.

These are the best products I have found so far-YMMV.
 
DBR: said:
Just idle speculation: I seriously doubt that any "gun oil" is subjected to the qualification testing against published standards that all motor oils must pass. This does not address the suitability of motor oil for firearms, only that anything can be called "gun oil".

I use Eezox for cleaning and protection and Redline 15-50 Racing Oil for lubrication. I have some bolt guns that have stood vertically in my safe for more than six years since oiled and the bolt lugs and raceways are still wet with Redline when I pull them for inspection.


DBR,

Good points and an insightful perspective. Hadn't thought of it in those terms.
 
I seriously doubt that any "gun oil" is subjected to the qualification testing against published standards that all motor oils must pass.
Might be true of some, but there is a mil-spec for CLP products. Breakfree CLP and a perhaps a few others (at least one other) meet the spec.
While such damage is possible, PAOs/POEs are actually pretty inert and relatively innocuous. PAO is also the chief constituent of Break Free CLP and that gun specific product is designed for use on any and all guns.
Clearly the PAOs are not an issue, however, as pointed out earlier, when you buy "oil" perhaps 85% of the product is actually the oil/lubricant. The remaining content is application specific additives. If you buy a gun product you can be sure that those application specific additives will be safe for use on all the materials that are normally associated with guns or will come with applicable warnings if that is not the case. If you use an oil designed for another application you have no such guarantee.

Are the additives typically found in motor oil suitable for use in firearms?

There are some who feel there may be issues in some cases.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=575678&highlight=chrome#post575678

"a rep. from Pennzoil actually called me! ... the Pennzoil rep. said that while motor oil will work on most weapons, it will not provide a good level of protection from the elements, because motor oils are designed for use in a closed assembly. They will attract dirt and dust like a magnet for the same reasons. He did state that his biggest worry would be that the additives in motor oil may not be compatible with certain finishes. He stated an example of synthetic motor oil causing damage to chrome-plated parts in an experimental engine being tested."

Frankly, I don't really think it's likely that a motor oil would damage a firearm, but I do think that there are better choices for lubricating & protecting firearms.
 
Wow, pretty slick all the oil info here! I'm putting together a AR-15. Anything special I need to do as far as lubricating a new gun? Do I simply put a light coat of M1 on all the internal parts? How do you apply it? I'm a newbie and thought you just sprayed some CLP inside so all parts get a thin mist and your were done. Given that M1 is thick I'm curious if you rub it on with a cloth, brush it on and wipe the excess off, etc?
 
PS, good reading on this subject in Rifles, just do a search. I use a plastic bottle to drip oil where I want it. On my ARs, I lube the bolt heavy, very light coat on other parts.
 
Are the additives typically found in motor oil suitable for use in firearms?

There are some who feel there may be issues in some cases...

Frankly, I don't really think it's likely that a motor oil would damage a firearm, but I do think that there are better choices for lubricating & protecting firearms.

+1 to JohnKSa.

This is the concern of using motor oils, synthetic or otherwise, outside of closed systems. They generally oxidize too quickly to be highly effective. Fine if you are relubing frequently, but not if a gun is stored or carried for longer periods between servicing. ATF works much better.

The best source of succinct, thoughtful commentary about gun lubricants is from Grant Cunningham:

http://grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

His concerns and comments are the same as the Pennzoil rep's, and match mine on my observation of motor oils used in "open air" applications as a rust inhibitor and lubricant. Too thin, and oxidation degrades them too rapidly.
 
Guys,

I suppose that there are always exceptions to the rule. That is why I said that "such damage might be possible". Most likely improbable in my estimation.

While I agree that POA/POEs pose little threat, the other additives like detergents, ZDDP, and MoS2 are unlikely to cause damage to any finish that I can think of save maybe a cold blue that is "chemically delicate" and susceptible to attack from a host of many other corrosive agents as well.

Outside of the EP/AW additives, motor oils contain viscosity improvers and anti-oxidative components that I suspect pose little threat to most firearms finishes and their component materials.

I find the statement...

"a rep. from Pennzoil actually called me! ... the Pennzoil rep. said that while motor oil will work on most weapons, it will not provide a good level of protection from the elements, because motor oils are designed for use in a closed assembly. They will attract dirt and dust like a magnet for the same reasons. He did state that his biggest worry would be that the additives in motor oil may not be compatible with certain finishes. He stated an example of synthetic motor oil causing damage to chrome-plated parts in an experimental engine being tested."

...rather vague since the "rep" fails to qualify exactly what in the synthetics' formulation caused the chromium plating to fail in the experimental engine and his statement regarding the affinity exhibitted by "motor oils" for dust and dirt is true not only for motor oils but also, for the firearms-specific lubricants as well.

His expressed concern for the oils action upon "certain finishes" provides us precious little information and such commentary suggests that "they" (being Pennzoil) may be concerned with the potential liability of giving folks "the green light" to use their product in an otherwise unintended fashion and let's be truthful here, using motor oil as an alternative small arms lubricant is an "unintended and unauthorised" use.

As for the "too thin" qualifier, there are several grades of multi-viscosity oil that range significantly in their viscosity (please refer to post #1 for those numbers) from very thin like the 0w20 to very thick like the 20w50. I have never seen any issues relating to oil oxidation as it relates to the use of M1 on any of my weapons and while it is definitely a remote possibility, the frequency with which weapons are cleaned and lubricated can alleviate such concerns. In the nearly thirteen years that I have been using M1 it has seen several varying environmental conditons on at least three different continents and never have I ever had a weapon experience any "down time" or corrosion that could be attributed to "oxidized" M1. My weapons which range from nearly corrosion proof Glocks and HK USPs to blued Winchester Model 70s to Arsenal AKMs with their factory original bulgarian craptastic spray paint finishes have never seen rust,finish damage or corrosion as a result of M1 being used on them.

ETA:

From Grant Cunninghams' site-

Motor oils: Generally good boundary lubrication (particularly the Havoline formulations), but very poor corrosion resistance and poor resistance to open-air oxidation. In addition, their pour-point additives often contain benzene compounds, which aren't a good thing to have next to your skin on a regular basis! ATF is better on every count, even if it is a tad more expensive.

Mr. Cunningham fails to point out that ATF, synthetic or minerally derived, also has pour point additives and viscosity modifiers within its formulation as well. Furthermore, synthetic motor oils utilizing Group III, IV and V PAO basestocks typically require less of these additives and modifiers to achieve their required ratings since the Group III, IV and V PAO basestocks possess a large majority of these qualities to begin with.

Within the same article Mr. Cunningham also advocates the addition of STP Oil Treatment to ATF in order to thicken it should the reader find it "too thin" for their liking.

If you really want a thicker oil with all the good characteristics we've covered, mix ATF and STP Oil Treatment in a 40/60 ratio.

What Mr. Cunningham fails to realize is that STP Oil Treatment is nothing more than a polymeric viscosity modifier (it also contains ZDDP), compounds that he finds to be in undesirable quantities in synthetic motor oils. I am uncertain as to why he would suggest the addition of these compounds to an alternative that possesses less of them while cautionng against the use of synthetic motor oils for the very same issue.

ATF (synthetic or dino) is also designed to be used within an "enclosed environment" and as such is also not immune to the same oxidative stresses that could cause oxidation in synthetic motor oils.

His article is an interesting read, but I would be hard pressed to call it an authoritative treatise on the subject.
 
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Wow. :scrutiny: How about we take the simple act of putting something slippery on our boom sticks and make it really complicated? :confused:
I just use whatever works. CLP, Militec-1, G96, have all done the trick for me so far, as an Infantryman and now as a civilian. Hell, once in a while when I run out of my SuperBlackOpsStealthNinjaGrease I'll use some wheel bearing grease on the slide of my P-11. :D
I prefer Militec-1, G96, and CLP, but it's not like I'm going to throw a rod if I don't have any of them, I just use whatever I have that will reduce friction and keep the rust at bay. I've even used cutting / machining oil a couple times. (gasp!) :neener:
At any rate, this stuff IS interesting, but it's nothing that I'm going to lose sleep over or get all huffy about. :D
 
Remember , M-1 Garands have been using white lithium grease since WWII .

It may be too thick for some applications . But it pretty much stays put .

I use some that also has moly . Just be careful , produces terrible black stains on clothes . :-(

God bless
Wyr
 
Wow i thought my 50/50 marvels mystery oil and chrysler full sythetic ATF was a secret recipe, it seems others have improved mine
 
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