Nephew’s AD and brush with death.

[Styx]

It already happened and it's embarrassing enough. At least he was brave enough to admit to it, and hopefully he can explain the circumstances so that it might help someone else. I know my ND would not have happened if it happened to someone, and they took the time to post about it...

I was one of those highly critical guys who was holier than thou, thought it'd never happen to me, and thought the people it happened to were complete idiots.... Then it happened to me too. Whether it happened once or three times we should be supportive and try to let it be a learning moment for everyone. If we are critical for each other especially before knowing the facts, it'll discourage others from sharing their story IMHO...

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I was one of those highly critical guys who was holier than thou, thought it'd never happen to me, and thought the people it happened to were complete idiots.... Then it happened to me too.

I seem to remember somebody here saying something like "thinking it will never happen to you is the first step to having it happen to you." I think the same person even said he's one brain fart away from having to post a picture of his ass with a bullet hole in it here too and he thinks about it everytime he picks up a gun.

That doesn't sound "highly critical" to me.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'm glad the OP's nephew will be OK. He did not have an AD he had a ND, in fact you could ad a couple N's.
Speculation about a manual or grip safety preventing it is pointless and follows the logic of the anti 2A crowd. The gun was not at fault.

 

[ThomasT]

I'm thinking there's a lesson in there that you haven't learned yet

Keep thinking it all you want. At least I am man enough to own up to it.

and hopefully he can explain the circumstances so that it might help someone else. I know my ND would not have happened if it happened to someone, and they took the time to post about it...

OK here go's. My first was 40 years ago. I had just bought my first ever handgun. A $50 RG from the pawn shop. Anyone that has ever owned one of those cheap POS single actions knows what incredibly light trigger pulls they have. I had walked down to look at my target(which I missed) and cocked the hammer. BAM! Off went the gun. I took it apart and studied how it worked and made a deeper notch in the hammer. Even then it was still a very light pull so I traded it back for a better single action.

Second ND. We had shot the falling plate matches and I used my S&W model 39-2 and my uncle wanted to shoot the gun so I let him. He gave the gun back and I put it in my range bag. At home I was cleaning guns and decided to pull the trigger while the gun was pointed at my emergency bullet trap. Bam! The gun still had a round in the chamber. That one is on me 100%. I should have checked the gun before ever putting it in the bag.

Third ND. I was running rounds through a couple of new mags I had bought for a Ruger P-89. My thumb slipped off the hammer and Bam! Divot in the garage floor. No real damage except to the floor. The round was a Remington 115gr hollow point and it exploded instead of ricocheting like a FMJ.

So there's the story. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Let himwho is without sin cast the first stone.

Have a steak instead

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Keep thinking it all you want. At least I am man enough to own up to it.



OK here go's. My first was 40 years ago. I had just bought my first ever handgun. A $50 RG from the pawn shop. Anyone that has ever owned one of those cheap POS single actions knows what incredibly light trigger pulls they have. I had walked down to look at my target(which I missed) and cocked the hammer. BAM! Off went the gun. I took it apart and studied how it worked and made a deeper notch in the hammer. Even then it was still a very light pull so I traded it back for a better single action.

Second ND. We had shot the falling plate matches and I used my S&W model 39-2 and my uncle wanted to shoot the gun so I let him. He gave the gun back and I put it in my range bag. At home I was cleaning guns and decided to pull the trigger while the gun was pointed at my emergency bullet trap. Bam! The gun still had a round in the chamber. That one is on me 100%. I should have checked the gun before ever putting it in the bag.

Third ND. I was running rounds through a couple of new mags I had bought for a Ruger P-89. My thumb slipped off the hammer and Bam! Divot in the garage floor. No real damage except to the floor. The round was a Remington 115gr hollow point and it exploded instead of ricocheting like a FMJ.

So there's the story. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

I'll give you the first one but two and three were all on you.

You pulled the trigger on a gun because you thought it was empty without checking the chamber? Yeah that's all you dude.

And the third one you were cycling live rounds through the chamber of your gun? I mean I understand what happened was an accident but you caused everything necessary for that accident to happen to be present.

Those weren't mistakes those were really poor gun handling.

 

[ThomasT]

Those weren't mistakes those were really poor gun handling.

Trust me. If I ever need advice from anyone you will be the last one I would ask.

 

[bdickens]

Says the man with 3 NDs to his credit to the man with 0.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Says the man with 3 NDs to his credit to the man with 0.

Not true.

I was playing with a gun when I was 11 years old. I was absolutely positive that it wasn't loaded and I pointed it at the wall and found out I was wrong.

I learned from my mistake. Like I said earlier I try to be a little bit afraid whenever I pick up a gun and I try not to ever forget how I felt when that gun that I didn't think was loaded went off.

I am also ABSOLUTELY ANAL about verifying the status of any handgun or long gun I touch.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Trust me. If I ever need advice from anyone you will be the last one I would ask.

That's fine. I never asked you to accept my advice. I'm just saying that two of those things that you did were not good gun handling

 

[ThomasT]

Not true.

I was playing with a gun when I was 11 years old. I was absolutely positive that it wasn't loaded and I pointed it at the wall and found out I was wrong.

I learned from my mistake. Like I said earlier I try to be a little bit afraid whenever I pick up a gun and I try not to ever forget how I felt when that gun that I didn't think was loaded went off.

Well at least you owned up to it. I am not proud of the ones I had but I posted them so others could see that yes, it does happen. And it happens fast when it does happen.

 

[Styx]

Not really interested in getting into another back and forth debate over the matter, but the mistakes have already been made. It's over and done with. There's nothing gained by putting the man down, making smart or condensing comments, etc at this point. He probably learned his lesson or ready, and if not, try and correct him instead of putting him down.

 

[whughett]

And the third one you were cycling live rounds through the chamber of your gun? I mean I understand what happened was an accident but you caused everything necessary for that accident to happen.

I routinely cycle rounds thru an auto loaders after hand loading a new batch of ammo. Especially if I’ve changed bullet style How else to be certain they will function when needed. I’m in a safe place with the gun pointed where I want it. A discharge would not be a ND.

 

[ThomasT]

I'm going to make one more post in this thread and be done with it. I have already wrote things I regret. Yes I screwed up and made mistakes. And I owned each one and didn't color the story to make myself look better. I flat screwed up. Thankfully each time I had an ND is was at a safe backstop. And yes I cycled loaded rounds through a magazine. Do you really think I have 15 dummy rounds to test mags with?

Now here is a story that maybe most of you have never heard or have forgotten. Think an ND is just for beginners or idiots? You all know who Bill Jordan is right? He had an ND that turned out very bad. And I bet almost no one here can match him for experience. Be sure and read the link posted to the TFL forum.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bill-jordan-an-ad-and-coopers-four-rules.821605/

Y'all have fun with it. Color me gone.

 

[JERRY]

pocket holsters that cover the trigger prevent guns from firing in the pocket while you "clear" them.

 

[MedWheeler]

D.B. Cooper writes:

doubt there is any way to answer this question accurately, due to lack of available information and record keeping, but I wonder how many people have been shot by an attacker solely because their gun's safety was on; compare that to the number of people who have injured themselves or others through an ND with a gun whose only safety is on the face of the trigger. As I understand it, most NDs are cause by someone or something pulling the trigger to the rear.

Relative to the number of handlings in each scenario, it would certainly be difficult to answer. But, I'm willing to bet that the ND incidents far outnumber the "safety-failed SD-incidents" simply because there are far more people handling firearms each year while not facing a threat than there are people handling safety-locked guns while going up against an attacker.

 

[sgt127]

Strange how things have changed.

When we carried cocked and locked 1911’s, people freaked out when they saw the hammer back. Yes, a 5 pound trigger. With a thumb safety and a grip safety was considered kinda risqué to many.

Now, the norm is striker fired guns with 5 pound triggers, no grip safety and no thumb safety and, if you’re not real keen on that, people think you will die before you can get it into action in a gunfight.

But, since you can’t SEE the stored energy it’s perfectly safe as long as you keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

Except, that trigger doesn’t know the difference between your finger. A drawstring. A shirt tail. A corner of the holster. Etc.

I’ll take DA or a gun with an off switch.

It works better for me anyway.

 

[Elkins45]

I would really like to know the model of gun the subject of this thread shot himself with. Anyone care to take bets that it was a striker-fired gun with a trigger safety?

 

[KYregular]

Glad he's gonna be all right, never clear your weapon unless it's safely in front of you. A lot of ADs happen when registering weapons though, because people carelessly do it too fast. I have always taught my kids to slowly reholster your weapon with your feet together and your thumb on the back of the slide or hammer.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm glad the OP's nephew will be OK. He did not have an AD he had a ND, in fact you could ad a couple N's.
Speculation about a manual or grip safety preventing it is pointless and follows the logic of the anti 2A crowd. The gun was not at fault.

You're totally correct here. As I was the first one to mention safeties on guns in this discussion, I'll say this: the point of your post crossed my mind before I posted. This, like most if not all NDs, is a user function. This is why we have the four rules.

However.

Certain designs just lend themselves to be more or less prone to an ND. For example, almost every state requires vehicle occupants to wear seat belts. Most, if not all, cars now have air bags as well. Most states now require motorcyclists to wear helmets. Each of those design improvements has led to reduced injuries. In y view, a safety on a gun is akin to a seatbelt in a car. The safety is not a substitute for safe gun handling anymore than the seatbelt is a substitute for safe driving, but both have the propensity to reduce injury should things go awry.

(Now. There is an economic theory out there that disputes my assertion, but it's likely beyond the scope of THR.)

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Strange how things have changed.

When we carried cocked and locked 1911’s, people freaked out when they saw the hammer back. Yes, a 5 pound trigger. With a thumb safety and a grip safety was considered kinda risqué to many.

I still feel that way.

Now, the norm is striker fired guns with 5 pound triggers, no grip safety and no thumb safety and, if you’re not real keen on that, people think you will die before you can get it into action in a gunfight.

But, since you can’t SEE the stored energy it’s perfectly safe as long as you keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

This has been my opposition to striker-fired guns since their inception.

I’ll take DA or a gun with an off switch.

It works better for me anyway.]

Same here.

 

[JERRY]

there are a few things that can be dangerous that I've handled in a cavalier manner, knives, cars, tasers, o.c. spray, corrosives, poisons, drugs, but not a gun, not yet anyway. its the fact that I can apply the breaks on a speeding car, I can let the knife fall to the ground, I can take a shot of Narcan in case of drug exposure... but 800+ feet per second isn't something I can react to if being careless.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Certain designs just lend themselves to be more or less prone to an ND. For example, almost every state requires vehicle occupants to wear seat belts. Most, if not all, cars now have air bags as well. Most states now require motorcyclists to wear helmets. Each of those design improvements has led to reduced injuries. In y view, a safety on a gun is akin to a seatbelt in a car. The safety is not a substitute for safe gun handling anymore than the seatbelt is a substitute for safe driving, but both have the propensity to reduce injury should things go awry.

Are you advocating government "safety" regulations, similar to helmet and seat belt laws, for firearms?

 

[94045]

Are you advocating government "safety" regulations, similar to helmet and seat belt laws, for firearms?

I don't know about him but since I am a Liberal (a real one not one of those usurper social Democrats) I would advocate for none of those things.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'm positive that there are better ways to check a round then to cycle it through the chamber. If for no other reason than the possibility of setback.

I mean calipers and micrometers are a thing