Ohio Open Carry Incident 3/22/09

[indoorsoccerfrea]

i did see that, i was wondering if it was still allowed for non-residents.

 

[Lou McGopher]

not to hijack, but it is legal to open carry in ohio without a permit? how about for non-residents?

Yes, it is legal.
And Ohio doesn't give concealed carry-permits to someone who has lived here for less than 45(?) days, IIRC.

I remember hearing of a case of a man who had recently moved to Cleveland. He had been a victim of a mugging, and decided to start carrying. Because he had lived here less than the time required to get a CCW permit, he carried open. The gun was in a holster tucked into the back of his pants, but most of the gun was still visible. When someone called the police, the cops had no trouble identifying him by the easily-visible gun tucked into his pants, but they arrested and charged him with concealed carry anyway. I believe there is an unconstitutional law in Cleveland proper that prohibits open-carry (state law supersedes this though). Anyway, it was a BS case no matter which way you look at it, although I haven't heard the latest news on it.

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

good to know, thanks! I go to college here and wasn't aware that open carry was legal for non-residents.

 

[hometheaterman]

I agree that the public probably prefers to see guys ccing. However, in the state I live in people over the age of 18 can oc where as you have to be 21 or older to get a concealed permit. Will I ever fault anyone between 18 and 21 carrying open when that's the only legal way? No. They have a right to carry and be able to protect themselves and their family just as much as anyone over 21 with a concealed permit does.

The next instance is in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol you can't legally carry concealed permit or not. However, you can open carry if they serve alcohol. Should anyone give up the right to defend their family or themselves just because they want to go out to eat? Most restaurants seem to serve alcohol. I surely don't think they should have to give up that right as their aren't police in there protecting them unless their just happens to be one eating so basically they have no means of protection if they don't oc.

I agree 100% that guns and alcohol do not mix. However, as long as you are not drinking I don't see a problem carrying. I think the law should allow concealed carrying however, since it doesn't I see no problem with open carrying.

For guys that have CCW permits and can carry concealed in the places they go and just open carry instead I don't really see the point however, if they want to it's their right and there should be no reason they should get hassled. If it's nice out or something they may not want to wear something that covers their gun so they shouldn't have to even then.

I see no problem with OCing at all and think the media and police department needs to do a better job with having the average citizen realize it's legal.

 

[richyoung]

If I were a police officer I would say, "hmm, maybe this person is up to no good and taking advantage of the law."

If you were a police officer, its your duty to LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE in the abscence of a warrant or probable cause. It is not up to you to harrass people engaged in a lawful activity.

 

[SsevenN]

While I don't personally OC, I know several people who do. They carry some educational material in their pocket. I've seen a business card that has a quick summary of rights and laws of my state.

Anybody have a link to a site that has printer friendly versions of said buisness card/document?

 

[Rockwell1]

Carry ID on you.

Hiible Vs. 6th US district court says you are not required to produce Identification just because the police ask you to

2) Get a CCW

3)
They weren't CCing

People are afraid of guns. If they see you with one, they will call the police, and the police will be obligated to 'interact' with you. Even if you get to know the police, they're eventually going to get annoyed by constantly having to respond to nuisance calls generated by your open carrying

They'll be even more anoyyed the second or third time they pull me over knowing I've committed no crime and my Lawyer sues the city

 

[Grizfire]

IMO, open carrying is one of the most influential activities than any other form of activism toward the 2nd amendment.

Thank you, FFMedic, for having the guts to do what the rest of us won't. Do NOT listen to any others here who tell you to stop OC'ing. There is a difference between having only concern for yourself and having concern of our rights. You pick the latter, and we need more people like you. Further, if we don't exercise this right, we may lose it.

 

[Deanimator]

not to hijack, but it is legal to open carry in ohio without a permit? how about for non-residents?

Anybody who's lawfully able to buy and possess a handgun can openly carry it. There are no "permits" in Ohio, only a Concealed Handgun License, which one must have either to carry a concealed handgun or to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle.

Open carry is 100% legal in Ohio, and an "inducing panic" arrest would be a false arrest.

 

[Deanimator]

He asked if it was registered to me and I replied that I purchased it lawfully in a face to face transaction.

EPIC fail.

There is no "registration" ANYWHERE in Ohio, except by the US government of NFA firearms such as machineguns and short barreled rifles and shotguns.

Any cop that lazy and ignorant of basic state firearms law (and state and Federal law are the ONLY firearms laws in Ohio) shouldn't BE a cop.

 

[RobXD9]

FFMedic: The officer removed my magazine from my gun and asked me to slowly remove it from the holster and give it to him and I did.

Seriously?

I have no reason to doubt you. I mean, perhaps you're left handed or the Beretta you carried has an ambi-mag release. Otherwise I can't see how the officer could release the magazine without removing the weapon from the holster first.

However this statement just seems really out there.

If a cop ever told me to take my gun out of my holster I would vehemently refuse. Too much room for "misunderstanding."

 

[SaxonPig]

Still total BS to harass someone for no reason.

NO REASON.

Doesn't matter if the cops were polite or NRA members. They had no reason to stop and search two men breaking no laws. I would sue. That's the only way to get their attention I guess.

I don't care if ignorant people get scared. Scared of what? Two men eating burgers and leaving quietly? The dispatcher should have asked what the armed men were doing and upon hearing the description of the mundane actions should have advised the callers that law-abiding people can legally carry guns and to call back when they see some crime being committed.

 

[Rockwell1]

I'm sorry, but it genuinely vexes my when I see members of the shooting community saying that two American Citizens exercising a Constitutionally enumerated right and doing nothing illegal are getting no more tjan they deserve when they're harrassed by overzealous police officers. I can't imagine that the overt display of force was intended to do anything but intimidate these two into not exercising their rights. The fact that any member of THR thinks this is even remotely acceptable is beyond my comprehension.

 

[runrabbitrun]

OC might not be a bad idea.
Check out this article:

Mexican drug wars now worse than Iraq

Snip*
"Law enforcement agencies in American
cities close to the border with Mexico —
including San Diego in California,
and El Paso in Texas — are “gearing up”
for street confrontations with the drug gangs,
which are armed with rockets and grenades
and have brought death and chaos south of the border."

Things are indeed spilling over the boarder.
Strange times we're going through.

 

[FFMedic]

RobXD9, yes I know it seems odd. My friends gun was removed by the second officer. I was carrying in a Fobus paddle holster. The officer removed the mag easily as the grip sticks out a bit from my sides. It seemed like he tried to remove it but you have to remove the gun with a motion that is very hard for someone else to do. He said, "go ahead and take that out of there for me, just keep your finger off the trigger". We did exactly as we were told the entire time, did not want to resist any "orders".

On a side note I made sure we stayed in view of the camera on the squad car the entire time. No, "step oer here and lets talk"...

FFMedic

 

[glove]

OC

Hello
If I was a bad guy and needed a gun and some money that guy would be wearing my baseball bat and I will be walking away with a new gun and some money. Do not advertise carry concealed no one knows what you have and chances are the bad guy won't mess with you. Now if you live on a farm or rural areas where everyone knows one another than OK.
Dave Z

 

[Rockwell1]

That guy would be wearing my baseball bat and I will be walking away with a new gun and some money

Well of course, because that happens all the time right?

This is actually one of the more assinine arguments against open carry I've ever heard.

 

[6_gunner]

If you were a police officer, its your duty to LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE in the abscence of a warrant or probable cause. It is not up to you to harrass people engaged in a lawful activity.

That's the way it's supposed to work, but that's obviously not always the case, given FFMedic's story.


Kudos to all who go through the hassle of open carry. Someday, perhaps reports of people with guns will be as alarming as reports of people walking dogs or driving cars. Open carry is a perfectly legal activity, and noone should be hassled for it if they aren't doing anything else to arouse suspicion.


I've always wanted to join the open carry movement, but I'm afraid I don't look "respectable" enough to pull it off. I don't think "irritable-looking hairy man with a revolver" is the image we want to present to the public.

For those of you who present a better public image than I do, I heartily encourage you to help acclimate the public to the presence of ordinary citizens with firearms.

 

[D-Day]

FFMedic, would you mind posting your story over at OhioCCW.org Forums in the Open Carry section?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Sadly, OC is too much of a hassle to be practiced very often. Imagine how much time you would waste if you did that every day.

Imagine how people would start to react if lots of us did it every day.

Pretty soon no one would be calling the cops anymore because it would be commonplace and no longer a big deal.

I think I prefer it that way.

 

[FFMedic]

D-Day, it is done.

FFMedic

 

[I_AM_LEGEND]

well it seems more and more that LEO encounters start off looking really bad and the cops seem to go overboard sometimes but they usually end ok....

 

[Prince Yamato]

If you were a police officer, its your duty to LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE in the abscence of a warrant or probable cause.

Except in Ohio, as apparent by a number of threads on the issue, OC is probable cause.

Hiible Vs. 6th US district court says you are not required to produce Identification just because the police ask you to

And if you act like an ass to a police officer, they will probably find probable cause to stop/arrest you, such as "disobeying the direct order of an officer" or "resisting arrest".

They weren't CCing

You're right, they weren't. A CCW acts as a "proof-positive" card, implying that you are not a criminal. You "don't get one" if you engage in criminal activity. It also helps corroborate your story when you tell the officers that you are law abiding when open carrying.

Folks, you can spout all the rhetoric and legal cases you want, but at the end of the day, police will do what they will do.

I liken open carry to women going topless in public. In most places both are legal. In most places both are uncommon. In most cases a civilian seeing someone do either will call the police. The police will respond and act accordingly. YMMV depending on where you live. Are you really surprised at this response in Ohio?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

they jumped an armed guard in hampton roads a while back took his weapon group of young men knocked off a couple hunters in md to take their guns a decade or so ago

 

[Deanimator]

Folks, you can spout all the rhetoric and legal cases you want, but at the end of the day, police will do what they will do.

I say if the police want to get sued and lose, let them. Who knows, it could keep some poor Bentley dealer from having his house foreclosed on...