PRS/NRL22 rifle

I've heard of "balancing" a rifle or a riffle is "balanced". Where should the balance point be? With or without bipod? Currently with bipod installed it nose dives at the front action screw, but when holding it with my hand under the front of the scope it feels tail heavy. This gun will probably be shot mostly supported on something and moved from spot to spot, (I hope quickly).
 
In front of the mag well, where it will sit on the bag on a prop such as a tank trap.
Thanks for the quick reply. I'm close to that point, with the bipod down it balances under the front scope mount. with the bipod stored it nose dives.
Gun is too far back on the bag, needs to slide forward until it stops.
That was pointed out to me after that stage, I was shown how much more stable it was when the bag was at the mag and my hand was over the scope. There was SO much to take in that day.
 
I will finish mounting the scope tomorrow morning, hopefully this weekend I can get it sighted in. I'm taking at least 100 of each brand of ammo to shoot trying to find what it likes. I will weigh it tomorrow, I'm thinking it's around 12lbs, without bipod it is over 11lbs. What would be an ideal weight?
I found some Eley Target 40grn for $10 a box, Is that something I should try also? How many mags should I be looking for? I only have one and was thinking at least two more.
 
I've heard of "balancing" a rifle or a riffle is "balanced". Where should the balance point be? With or without bipod? Currently with bipod installed it nose dives at the front action screw, but when holding it with my hand under the front of the scope it feels tail heavy. This gun will probably be shot mostly supported on something and moved from spot to spot, (I hope quickly).

For a PRS/NRL rifle, I prefer the balance point to be 4-5” ahead of the front action screw - which is intended to be about an inch ahead of center on the barricade bag, WITHOUT the bipod. We want the rifle slightly muzzle heavy when on the bag, and typically we don’t want the bipod installed when we balance the rifle, because we won’t have it installed for most barricades (or at least don’t want to be handcuffed to having your bipod installed to promote balance.
 
I'm close to that point, with the bipod down it balances under the front scope mount. with the bipod stored it nose dives.
About like the one in the first pic balanced on the chair.

Two mags is usually enough, you can get by with one......until something happens.......and it will.

Eley Target is definitely worth trying.
 
I prefer the balance point to be 4-5” ahead of the front action screw
Ouch, using the side of my hand as the pivot point and the rear of the stock on a scale, I get 1.7lbs pressure, That would be a lot to ad to the front.
I put it on the bathroom scale this morning and it shows about 14lbs, empty mag no bipod.

Two mags is usually enough, you can get by with one......until something happens.......and it will.

Eley Target is definitely worth trying.
I'll p[ace that order, it looks like they offer free shipping, and the mags are on sale for $35
 
Ouch, using the side of my hand as the pivot point and the rear of the stock on a scale, I get 1.7lbs pressure, That would be a lot to ad to the front.
I put it on the bathroom scale this morning and it shows about 14lbs, empty mag no bipod.


I'll p[ace that order, it looks like they offer free shipping, and the mags are on sale for $35
I started reading this thread earlier this week. Now I’m trying to figure out how much it’ll cost me…. I should have known better .

Fortunately I’ve got a suitable scope on the shelf.
Following this thread is definitely giving me the itch to start another project… lol
 
Ouch, using the side of my hand as the pivot point and the rear of the stock on a scale, I get 1.7lbs pressure, That would be a lot to ad to the front.

Yup, it usually is. I have a pound and a half of lead in the forends of both of my PRS rifles, and added 3lbs of bolt on weights to my gas guns, and I just bolted a 2lb brass bar into my son’s 22LR forend. I shot with a buddy on Saturday as a practice day, he has 2lbs of exterior weights and a 2lb brass bar bolted inside the MPA chassis on his CZ457. Justin Watts, one of the top pro shooters in the world, has a steel block, about 2.5x2.5x1”, bolted to the end of his arca rail to get his balance forward. The overall rifle weight isn’t as critical as the balance.

Having neutral balance over the bag is a little more palatable for 22LR than centerfire because the recoil is so low, but the idea is pretty straight forward: we want the rifle to stay on target to see our impacts or misses as much as possible, and balancing behind the center of support means the muzzle wants to rise in recoil - or just naturally throughout a stage, which makes our job harder, driving the gun much more than we should be, adding a bunch of influence to the system, instead of just putting the reticle on target and letting the rifle shoot where it wants (NPOA). The more rearward your balance point behind center, the more your support hand has to fight the rifle to put the reticle on target, and keep it there, and what a lot of guys end up doing is lifting the rifle with their shoulder or their trigger hand - which are both bad things. The trigger hand should be running the trigger and bolt, that is its only job - if it has to also drive the rifle, that means your rifle will move far more when you release to run the bolt, and you’ll waste time correcting between shots. Your should should only be catching the recoil, not driving the rifle - the shoulder is not a dexterous body part, it’s “dumb,” and has no fine motor control, so it will fight the support hand and will push the rifle in ways we don’t actually want it to move.

So it’s much better to have the rifle sitting neutrally on the bag, or SLIGHTLY muzzle heavy on the bag (balanced forward of the center of support) so the muzzle weight helps stabilize the rifle in recoil and helps keep the reticle on target.

A lot of folks don’t realize just how far away from their center of support their rifles really are during a stage. But it’s pretty simple, put the rifle on the bag and measure to the center of the bag - that’s where your center of support will be, so put your center of balance there.

IMG_5880.jpeg
 
I'm in the same boat, the B14R balances too far back due to the stock. Even with a bipod up from, the balance is too far rearward. I was going to go with a 14" length 419 Arca rail, but will now end up getting their weighted version:

https://www.area419.com/product/universal-weight-tunable-arcalock-rail-and-kits/

IF this doesn't do it, I may have to look at putting a couple tungsten weights up from in the stock, or just go the chassis route for something more flexible.
 
I started reading this thread earlier this week. Now I’m trying to figure out how much it’ll cost me…. I should have known better .

Fortunately I’ve got a suitable scope on the shelf.

I built a spreadsheet and shopping list... :(

Once it broke the $2500 mark I stopped worrying about it. I was passing it off as my 2nd retirement gift a few months early, but now I'm going to have to keep working to pay it off..
 
I started reading this thread earlier this week. Now I’m trying to figure out how much it’ll cost me…. I should have known better .
@Walkalong hooked me when we shot a match together, Great guy and very knowledgeable,

Once it broke the $2500 mark I stopped worrying about it. I was passing it off as my 2nd retirement gift a few months early, but now I'm going to have to keep working to pay it off..
I'm already retired and have been for 8yrs, I was surprised at how quick things add up, 100 here, 350 there etc. THEN a couple hundred for ammo (and I already have 2 50cal and 2 30cal cans of 22lr and 1 30cal can of 22 shorts. I can already see this rabbit hole is as big or bigger than the one for a boat.

So it’s much better to have the rifle sitting neutrally on the bag, or SLIGHTLY muzzle heavy on the bag
After going outside and trying it on my Artic Cat I can see where just having the bipod attached it feels better. Can I add lead to the forearm with RTV or silicone? something that would be removeable if I ever sell this rifle? I think epoxy or resin would be permanent. Maybe like lead pellets or fishing sinkers in the cavities?

I’ll have a rifle purchased within the next week or so. Going with a CZ.
I found one at the LGS (actually a pawn shop) that looked new, beautiful wood stock and felt good in my hands, I just couldn't imagine beating it up. After this years "Family" ,+ a couple extra, vacation if there is anything left over I might go back by there and look at it again.

Scope is mounted, I tried to bore site it as good as I could see through the small bore to save some time tomorrow. I can't wait to see if it shoot good and how much difference the ammo makes.
 
Can I add lead to the forearm with RTV or silicone? something that would be removeable if I ever sell this rifle? I think epoxy or resin would be permanent. Maybe like lead pellets or fishing sinkers in the cavities?

I haven’t used anything like silicon, but it might be worth a try. If it breaks loose, that would mean it would be relatively easy to remove and replace. I epoxy mine in place. Any time I have sold rifles like this, I’ve simply said, “I added weight to the forend to improve balance,” and then sold the rifle - because most folks buying what I’m selling would want the same thing.

I also often buy alternative stocks, whether that would mean a replacement factory stock or an aftermarket alternative, if I think I would want to revert the rifle back to a factory form for resale.

Lots of options to add the weight. You can open a groove and add a brass bar, fill it with lead shot, sinkers, a block of lead, etc. void fraction is your enemy, so big round stuff doesn’t fill as densely as it could with smaller stuff packed between it.

You can attach bars by epoxying in place, or adding T nuts to screw them in place. A couple guys I know thread the bars and then use longer screws to attach their external arca rails, using the bars as their anchors.
 
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I was going to go with a 14" length 419 Arca rail, but will now end up getting their weighted version:

The weighted rail is great - but the 14” is also mostly hollow and can take some lead. I added a hair over half a pound of lead to the 14” rail on my blue rifle.
Some guys also sandwich brass bars between their stock and their rail.
 
The inside of the B14r already has an aluminum rail with threaded inserts imbedded, I will play with the idea of inserting some lead into the front half of the stock and see if it would be feasible.
 
The weighted rail is great - but the 14” is also mostly hollow and can take some lead. I added a hair over half a pound of lead to the 14” rail on my blue rifle.
Some guys also sandwich brass bars between their stock and their rail.

I thought about this, as it will actually "level" out the rail to make it more parallel to the bore. Doesn't matter really, but can't hurt either. I "think" I can get there with the brass weights, but we'll see.
 
I haven’t used anything like silicon, but it might be worth a try. If it breaks loose, that would mean it would be relatively easy to remove and replace. I epoxy mine in place. Any time I have sold rifles like this, I’ve simply said, “I added weight to the forend to improve balance,” and then sold the rifle - because most folks buying what I’m selling would want the same thing.

I also often buy alternative stocks, whether that would mean a replacement factory stock or an aftermarket alternative, if I think I would want to revert the rifle back to a factory form for resale.

Lots of options to add the weight. You can open a groove and add a brass bar, fill it with lead shot, sinkers, a block of lead, etc. void fraction is your enemy, so big round stuff doesn’t fill as densely as it could with smaller stuff packed between it.

You can attach bars by epoxying in place, or adding T nuts to screw them in place. A couple guys I know thread the bars and then use longer screws to attach their external arca rails, using the bars as their anchors.
Interesting…
Dumb question, but how much does a suppressor change the balance? I have a 26 inch barrel, it already is much more nose, heavy than some rifles I have handled, and I’m wondering if a can, even though it is relatively light, might just make it a little bit more nose heavy?
 
Interesting…
Dumb question, but how much does a suppressor change the balance? I have a 26 inch barrel, it already is much more nose, heavy than some rifles I have handled, and I’m wondering if a can, even though it is relatively light, might just make it a little bit more nose heavy?

Cans move the balance quite a bit for centerfire rifles and suppressors. Less for Rimfire cans, since they are so much lighter and barrels typically shorter.

The most productive means of adding rifle weight and improving balance in these rifles is to add barrel weight by heavier contour and longer barrels.
 
I just finished packing up for a trip to the property tomorrow, hopefully I'll have a lot of extra time to play with the rifle and sort through all the different ammo choices. I rounded up a lot of old lead I have around and now to look at my options on mounting it. I might have to come up with a pot and make my up own custom weights
 
Cans move the balance quite a bit for centerfire rifles and suppressors. Less for Rimfire cans, since they are so much lighter and barrels typically shorter.

The most productive means of adding rifle weight and improving balance in these rifles is to add barrel weight by heavier contour and longer barrels.
Ah. That makes perfect sense. Thanks
 
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