Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

Changing directions for a minute…
A while back I picked up a destroyed 105b from a local flea market for a couple of bucks figuring I could salvage enough parts to make it worthwhile (good bet, for once !)
Rather than s-can the bent-barrel receiver, I made a cutaway so I could verify lever and sear engagement on my homemade parts.
An unexpected bonus is that I can also inspect the spring anchor…which brings me to the point (forgive me if this has already been covered, only to page 24 of 76)
It appears the crease at the bottom of the Red Ryder spring anchor doesn’t extend down far enough to engage the rivet (which is probably partially responsible for the wonky angle). The 105b anchor is longer at the bottom and does engage the rivet…with a bit of gentle straightening and rebending it can be made to sit straight. The pic shows a reformed Buck anchor with a .200” spacer installed. Once I lop the sight off This will get tested in my current project.
Note: rebending a Ryder anchor didn’t work, it’s so short it only went about halfway down the rivet, the Buck anchor at least extends far enough down to allow the rebent curve at the bottom to cup the rivet enough to stay in place…maybe the pic will show what I mean.
r A97D5B61-AB19-45B4-9A89-E8B41EDC0AB3.jpeg
 
The spring anchor allows the spring to sit crooked, this was discussed some time ago but I can't say just where- but hinz57 whipped up a short spacer that corrected this. Ir worked as intended but it made no difference in cocking or MV. An early version (longer than needed) is shown below.

I suppose there's a chance Daisy engineers designed the anchor that way so it would be 'self-locking'. That's to say, the horizontal pin in the gun contacts the anchor in such a way that the anchor is being pulled down tighter into the gun. That said, I always straighten the anchor some in a vise. It allows the spring to sit a bit more squarely and it makes reassembly a little smoother.

H57 SPACER D.jpg
 
Tinkering a bit with it in one of my c.t.d. guns and examining the cutaway pics you posted (page 18) another possibility occurs to me; putting the spring in a kink may be forcing the back of the plunger down to keep it from rubbing the roof of the receiver…
I’m thinkin’ that Daisy put enough thought into design, something this obvious couldn’t be an oversight, could it ? There must be some reason…What do you think ?
 
Thanks Rex your to kind.
I've been cutting a 1/8" notch in a 1/4" spacer at the end of most of my plunger assemblies to straighten this out.
Also....... and I think this is "very" important, I dress out and supper polish the spring anchor and try to make sure it slides in the plunger slot easily, in fact I deburr and polish the slot as good as I can.
Just more details to fuss with,by themselves no big deal but they all add up and can/could help?
Terry
 
Hi Terry,
I do basically the same, not mirror polished by any means, but smooth with no friction and no burrs, especially the transition where the round part at the front is cut away to form the legs.
I’ve tried the notched spacers, but my results are just so-so. There’s some variation in anchor slot width on the top of the receiver (I’ve measured as small as .418” to as wide as .475”) and this will affect how deep the anchor sits, angle, etc. Seems each spacer is a custom fit.
I’ve been toying with the idea of lengthening the slot on one of my “crash test dummies” to 1/4” and making a custom anchor from 1/4” plate…should be a lot heavier-duty for use with beefier spring and spacer, and easier to get straight vertically.
 
Haven’t seen anything on this thread in a while. Is everybody else busy cutting grass and catching up on long-overdue tasks as well ?
In-between and on rainy days I’ve been on somewhat of a lever and trigger building binge for some future projects, and also experimenting with a short-chamber mod to see if it’s possible to speed up compression.
Any thoughts ?
 
Rex, that ought to be interesting!

I have a custom shot tube sitting here that Terry designed and made, it's for the 1938B. It's long overdue to be tested and I hope to do that soon. Shane also has one, he did a video that shows it:

 
cobalt327 said:
Rex, that ought to be interesting!

I have a custom shot tube sitting here that Terry designed and made, it's for the 1938B. It's long overdue to be tested and I hope to do that soon. Shane also has one, he did a video that shows it:

Click to expand...

Hi to all - this forum has been the most fun for me, though my efforts are crude in comparison. I am trying to get my Sheridan Cowboy to shoot half inch groups but not there yet. Have weighted the gun, polished chamber and spring, added open gear grease and an extra washer on the spring, disconnected anti - bear trap, swapped the sear spring, smoothed sear, lengthened stock, raised comb and put on a 5899 sight from my 499b. Using the big Marksman bbs sorted to use the ones that won’t fit in a 499 tube.

The problem is me and the sight. Ok vertically but sometimes spread out horizontal. A lot.
I was thinking of a 953 front globe sight even though they say not to use it with the 5899. At the very least this has kept me off the street during Covid.

I would be grateful for any ideas.
 
Tommy299 said:
Hi to all - this forum has been the most fun for me, though my efforts are crude in comparison. I am trying to get my Sheridan Cowboy to shoot half inch groups but not there yet. Have weighted the gun, polished chamber and spring, added open gear grease and an extra washer on the spring, disconnected anti - bear trap, swapped the sear spring, smoothed sear, lengthened stock, raised comb and put on a 5899 sight from my 499b. Using the big Marksman bbs sorted to use the ones that won’t fit in a 499 tube.

The problem is me and the sight. Ok vertically but sometimes spread out horizontal. A lot.
I was thinking of a 953 front globe sight even though they say not to use it with the 5899. At the very least this has kept me off the street during Covid.

I would be grateful for any ideas.
Click to expand...

At what range are you trying for 1/2” groups ?
Have you shot at longer distances to see if your gun is flinging “curve balls” ? This is not uncommon, several of mine do this, bb’s are more of a pattern than a group, and it seems to only get worse as velocity increases.
Best I can tell, the problem is the bb itself, being undersize, it bounces off the walls on it’s way down the tube, and whatever it contacts last before it leaves determines the spin on the bb.
If you can either eliminate or control the direction of the spin, you may get more consistency.
Here’s a couple of ideas; we know that oil in the bore is a no-no, but I have used graphite spray on a patch (bore cleaned first !) to coat the bore. Graphite is much slicker than steel, so has less ability to impart spin…this has worked in a few, but not all cases, and only after a couple hundred rounds pass thru it.
Another possibility is some kind of “hop-up” device. You can’t rifle a shot tube to get a consistent rotation, but there are ways to impart end-over-end spin, if you can keep this consistent it should help. I haven’t had time to explore this concept myself, but some
others (on this very thread !) have.
Best of luck !
 
Why did you place a small dowel in the trough? Couldn't you go end to end the entire length? Is this an air flow reasoning?
 
teerex.otw said:
At what range are you trying for 1/2” groups ?
Have you shot at longer distances to see if your gun is flinging “curve balls” ? This is not uncommon, several of mine do this, bb’s are more of a pattern than a group, and it seems to only get worse as velocity increases.
Best I can tell, the problem is the bb itself, being undersize, it bounces off the walls on it’s way down the tube, and whatever it contacts last before it leaves determines the spin on the bb.
If you can either eliminate or control the direction of the spin, you may get more consistency.
Here’s a couple of ideas; we know that oil in the bore is a no-no, but I have used graphite spray on a patch (bore cleaned first !) to coat the bore. Graphite is much slicker than steel, so has less ability to impart spin…this has worked in a few, but not all cases, and only after a couple hundred rounds pass thru it.
Another possibility is some kind of “hop-up” device. You can’t rifle a shot tube to get a consistent rotation, but there are ways to impart end-over-end spin, if you can keep this consistent it should help. I haven’t had time to explore this concept myself, but some
others (on this very thread !) have.
Best of luck !
Click to expand...


Shooting at 5 meters. I will try the graphite. Loathe to take out the barrel and abutment because they dont sell spare parts. Hop up seems like an idea though and would keep lead rounds from falling out if I go that way. This gun is famed for poor accuracy as purchased. I think the. Barrel ID might be .180 or better but have not measured,

Where does the hop up go, top or bottom?
Thanks for the help.
 
Tommy299 said:
Shooting at 5 meters. I will try the graphite. Loathe to take out the barrel and abutment because they dont sell spare parts. Hop up seems like an idea though and would keep lead rounds from falling out if I go that way. This gun is famed for poor accuracy as purchased. I think the. Barrel ID might be .180 or better but have not measured,

Where does the hop up go, top or bottom?
Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, the hop-up goes on top. The reasoning is that a bottom-to-top rotation facing travel would put more resistance on the bottom because it’s turning against forward movement, the top half is turning with travel direction and the bb is naturally going to follow the path of least resistance. If you put it on the bottom it would cause the bb to dive (or so I’ve heard).
One of the ideas I saw here used some kind of set-up with a pencil eraser to make contact with the bb and impart spin, but they didn’t post any pics, so I’m not sure about details.
Another possibility is a pretty strong magnet on top of the shot tube between the loading gate and front sight to pull the bb to the top of the tube to impart spin.
It probably wouldn’t require a whole lot of spin, just enough to ensure rotation is in the direction you want (after all, it can only turn in one direction at a time, bi-axial rotation doesn’t happen with a sphere). There may be other possibilities as well, but these two are the only ones I’ve heard of.
Whatever you try, please post your results…these experiments and the info gained is one of the things that keeps this thread so darned
interesting !
 
teerex.otw said:
Another possibility is a pretty strong magnet on top of the shot tube between the loading gate and front sight to pull the bb to the top of the tube to impart spin.
Click to expand...

Now that's a good idea !!!!
And........would be easy to do, I would take a magnet out of the 1938bRR shot tube abutment and glue it to the shot tube at the muzzle.
Maybe cut a notch in the plastic muzzle end to accommodate it ?
Guess I'm gonna have to buy me another RR just to experiment with ?
Terry
 
TerryCowger said:
Now that's a good idea !!!!
And........would be easy to do, I would take a magnet out of the 1938bRR shot tube abutment and glue it to the shot tube at the muzzle.
Maybe cut a notch in the plastic muzzle end to accommodate it ?
Guess I'm gonna have to buy me another RR just to experiment with ?
Terry
Click to expand...

Hi Terry,
I was kinda’ interested in the eraser idea myself, but haven’t figured out a way to make it adjustable without creating a possible air leak (more thought required).
As for the magnet, the best I’ve come up with so far is a small rectangular bar magnet on top of the shot tube between the fins in the upper quadrant of the front sight, going back toward the loading door. This would put the magnet about where I want it while the plastic door separates the bb’s in the reservoir from the magnet.
Here’s the kicker… you could also do this using a brass loading tube by running it under the shot tube, you would just have to install the abutment upside down.
Now to find an appropriate magnet…
K & J maybe ?

This might get interesting.
 
I'm sure J&K has something you could use, but if you have a RR shot assy. you can just push the little round magnet out of it very easily and I would just glue it to the top of the barrel at the very end.
I think that's where you want it anyway?
You could actually do this without taking the gun apart, after you have a magnet.
I think one could carefully drill into the muzzle from the front at the top of the shot tube and then just slide the magnet into the hole?
Put a drop of ACC glue to hold it in place then see what happens?
If needed the plastic muzzle part is easily knocked off the gun and it may be easier to drill that way ?
Now I'm gonna have to look and see what parts I can come up with to do this.
You do know those hop up parts can be bought pretty cheep on the internet ?
Terry
 
Tommy299 said:
Hi to all - this forum has been the most fun for me, though my efforts are crude in comparison. I am trying to get my Sheridan Cowboy to shoot half inch groups but not there yet. Have weighted the gun, polished chamber and spring, added open gear grease and an extra washer on the spring, disconnected anti - bear trap, swapped the sear spring, smoothed sear, lengthened stock, raised comb and put on a 5899 sight from my 499b. Using the big Marksman bbs sorted to use the ones that won’t fit in a 499 tube.

The problem is me and the sight. Ok vertically but sometimes spread out horizontal. A lot.
I was thinking of a 953 front globe sight even though they say not to use it with the 5899. At the very least this has kept me off the street during Covid.

I would be grateful for any ideas.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the delay in replying. It sounds like you've built a fine shooter! The 953 front sight has a larger diameter, so I think that may be why they warn against using it with the 5899 peep sight, but the difference isn't all that great- so it could work as long as there's sufficient elevation adjustment.

On accuracy, if there's oil in the shot tube, accuracy will suffer so be sure the shot tube is oil free.

The grease on the spring will cut down on vibration, but it also lowers MV, so if you choose to use it, only use as much as is absolutely necessary unless you aren't concerned with maximizing muzzle velocity.

I bet your stock modifications have helped a lot! The short length of pull on the Cowboy was one thing I couldn't seem to get used to.
 
cobalt327 said:
Sorry for the delay in replying. It sounds like you've built a fine shooter! The 953 front sight has a larger diameter, so I think that may be why they warn against using it with the 5899 peep sight, but the difference isn't all that great- so it could work as long as there's sufficient elevation adjustment.

On accuracy, if there's oil in the shot tube, accuracy will suffer so be sure the shot tube is oil free.

The grease on the spring will cut down on vibration, but it also lowers MV, so if you choose to use it, only use as much as is absolutely necessary unless you aren't concerned with maximizing muzzle velocity.

I bet your stock modifications have helped a lot! The short length of pull on the Cowboy was one thing I couldn't seem to get used to.
Click to expand...
 
I will try the 953 globe and put on a washer with a smaller hole. The 5899 doesn’t do so well with a blade front sight. Not for me anyway. I get groups in the .5 to .8 range then a flier out sideways for a group of 1.2”. I don’t remember having these problems in the 499b.

People say its crazy to fool with bbs, just get a pellet gun. They just don’t get it!

Grafted some pine onto the back of the stock and it really helped. Lots of Bondo too!
Time to order parts.
 
Well, I finally got my Red Ryder with the brass feed tube put together. This one was a challenge as the only unmodified original Daisy parts are the seal, the spring, and some of the hardware.
The stock, lever, and trigger are all custom pieces, the rear sight is adjustable for windage as well as elevation, the plunger has a .200” spacer and a moderate overbore air tube (.098”). It also has a shortened and reinforced under barrel tube for more solid forend mounting (squeak/creak drives me nuts !) and the banded muzzle/secured bushing mod that seems to help with accuracy.
There also several minor mods, aluminum buttplate, filled-in loading port, polished plunger, and I domed the nuts to soften the sharp edges and help alleviate that “hardware store” appearance of the std. hex nuts.
I also used a cut-down and slightly reshaped 105b spring anchor…they just work better than the stock anchors.
This being my first attempt at a tube-feed on one of these, I was pleased to note there were no double-feeds or fail-to-feeds, Although I didn’t note any real change in power/velocity over similar guns w/o the tube feed, this is still a definite improvement.
I still have a few minor details to sort out (and probably a few experiments as well after breaking in), but it appears to be working pretty well at this point. 051E22DB-4243-4DAA-B9BD-99531DC23FFE.jpeg 0B0EFB89-9BC9-46FD-B8AD-B25CCD15E55B.jpeg 8F0ACDE4-A36E-490F-A2C2-EC895B5B54F0.jpeg C09DA0C9-B460-49EA-8379-FCEE78E62FC7.jpeg
 
Rex you make such nice guns, they look soooooo clean and so well put together.
Like prototype models that the manufacturer may have made for concept and testing.
Very well done sir !!
Terry
 
TerryCowger said:
Rex you make such nice guns, they look soooooo clean and so well put together.
Like prototype models that the manufacturer may have made for concept and testing.
Very well done sir !!
Terry
Click to expand...

Thanks Terry,
I appreciate the kind words.
As I work on these and try new things,
I attempt to make refinements along the way…but I have a long way to go to get to my “happy place”…if I don’t run out of time first.
I’ve got a bunch of ideas floating around in the fog for future builds, just have to find time and decent materials
(just try and find good hardwood in Ms., all anyone seems to carry is Red Oak and Poplar).
But anyway, I’m looking at an extended Ryder using a Crosman 760 barrel (both of my 760’s are very accurate in spite of being smoothbore), and my next build is for sure going to get a ring magnet or two imbedded in the lever groove so i can eliminate that bothersome clasp behind the trigger.
I’ve also been playing with a “ghost ring” rear sight blade that’s showing a lot of promise, and seeing if I can wring anything useful out of a short-chamber mod…It’ll be fun (at least retirement isn’t boring !)
Rex
 
Yea there's not much in the way of good wood here in Fla. either. I've been getting my curly maple from these guys.
https://www.curlymaplewood.com/
You have check the board measurements closely, but the way the website is setup you can look at both sides of the board and they usually point out any bad spots.
I did play around with a magnet in the muzzle a little but didn't see any change, it will hold a BB at the muzzle but I don't think it's getting it to spin any ?
I'm going to put the magnet into the muzzle in a different way and see if it affects any different ?
Terry
 
Greetings everyone. I'm here courtesy of a link posted on one of RestOMod Daisy's videos and I'm seeking "hop-up" info for making these guns a bit more serious than they are.
I'm enjoying this thread. I'm currently on page 12 or so, so there's a lot of material before me, but I just skipped ahead and spoiled the ending here on page 77. :D

I do have an old Red Ryder 1938, about a July 1973 model according to a date deciphering guide I found online and am also looking to fix it. It's nearly mint but can only shoot a BB 4 feet or so out of the muzzle but it makes a deceptively loud pop while doing so.
Still trying to decipher Daisy part names and terminology and actually how the things work.

However, I am currently enamored with getting a Daisy Model 25 because of that handy pump action, it doesn't rattle BBs inside like the Ryders, and you can keep it shouldered shot after shot. I just love the utility of a BB gun you can cock-fire-cock-fire over and over with none of the hassles I put up with
with my Remington Airmaster 77 for example (Crosman 2100 clone). Desperately tired of that multipump and all the steps in between (1-10 pumps, choose BB or pellet, requires cocking the bolt action and all that pumping, all those steps, it's all so tiresome).
 
Hi,
Being kinda’ new here myself, I can tell you that you’ve come to the right place for info on Daisy lever guns !
There’s a metric ton of info here, and best advice is; just keep reading !
For example: on page 38 you can see details for the spacer used when putting a 25 spring-loaded shot tube in a Red Ryder, on page 39 there is a photo of an excellent cutaway showing internal workings of a current-style Ryder (the trigger is a bit different, but everything else is the same). There’s info on the proper oil to use (avoid regular 3-in-1 and WD40 like the plague !).
You’ll also find a lot of info on how to “spice up” performance on these…Mark, the owner/originator of this thread supplies an excellent high-power mainspring, and that along with an overbore air tube will make a definite difference in performance.
Lastly, the Restomod videos are a valuable source of not only disassembly, repair, and reassembly info, but historical info as well. Shane has a gift for explaining things clearly !
I would also recommend checking out “Daisy Lever Gun Fun” on You Tube,
Russ does a lot of creative mod. work, but also some restoration and repair.
I’ve learned a bunch from both !
Best of luck, and enjoy !
 
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