Rare cap and ball revolvers, please show and do tell! Here’s mine

My cylinder has the crosshatching and the scrollwork but is missing the “Colts” before “patent”. It just says “patent”, strangely.
 
1KPerDay said:
My cylinder has the crosshatching and the scrollwork but is missing the “Colts” before “patent”. It just says “patent”, strangely.
Click to expand...
ASM got away with putting "COLT" markings on their stuff until sometime in the 1980's.
I have found ALL models of theirs with Colt barrel addresses and they ALWAYS have Colt marked cylinders.
I have also found some with Colt marked cylinders on revolvers that lack the Colt barrel address.
Most of the ASM Walkers and Dragoons that I see on the auction sites lack both the barrel address and have just "Patent" on the cylinder with a space where the "Colts" should be.
I have not found any Colt marked revolvers after 1990!
I have looked for evidence of the fabled Colt Law suit but have found nothing!
I think it is far more likely that Guiseppe Bufoli got a nicely printed letter from a Colt lawyer about that time saying if they saw one more product marked ASM with the word "Colt" on it, they would soon own his company and he got the message!!!
 
hawg said:
I got it from Dr. Jim Davis that when Uberti supplied the parts for the Colt 2nd gens Uberti sub contracted ASM to supply Colt marked barrels. When Colt ceased production ASM got stuck with a lot of Colt marked barrels so ASM used them on their own guns.
Click to expand...
The two 1851 navys in my profile picture are indeed two of those very guns with colt marked barrels and cylinders!
They are excellent 51's indeed and parts can interchange witb 2nd gen colt 51's
 
1KPerDay said:
My cylinder has the crosshatching and the scrollwork but is missing the “Colts” before “patent”. It just says “patent”, strangely.
Click to expand...

They can't legally put Colts Patent on repros. The repros I've seen have Patent No. and a blank spot. Originals had the serial number in the blank spot. Most people read that as Colts Patent No. and wonder why every gun has a different number. It should read as
Colts Patent
No. 12345 or whatever the serial number is.

4786.4.jpg
 
hawg said:
Uberti sub contracted ASM to supply Colt marked barrels.
Click to expand...
While BPRevolver never mentioned it in any of his postings here and on other forums that I have seen, I think ASM also supplied Colt with the Colt marked cylinders as well.
ALL of the COLT barrel addressed ASM's that I own or have seen offered online also have "COLTS PATENT No" on the cylinder.
Sometimes there is a partial serial number and sometimes not.
Most (but not all) of the ASM clones I own or have seen online that either have an importer's address or blank top of the barrel have the cylinder marked as you describe with a blank space before "PATENT No" or start with "PATENT No" at the anterior end of the cylinder.
The only Uberti I own that has the Colt barrel address and cylinder "COLTS PATENT No" is a cased NUMIS GALLERY Wells Fargo Commemorative.
I wonder if Uberti got those parts from ASM too!
ASM's manager at the end of its operation, married into the Uberti family and went to work for them so there must have been a connection between the two companies.
 
I don't know about Colt marked Uberti's. I spoke to bprevolver on the phone a few times and it just came up in conversation.
 
hawg said:
They can't legally put Colts Patent on repros. The repros I've seen have Patent No. and a blank spot. Originals had the serial number in the blank spot. Most people read that as Colts Patent No. and wonder why every gun has a different number. It should read as
Colts Patent
No. 12345 or whatever the serial number is.

View attachment 1131628
Click to expand...
I was referring to the ASM walker Mr. Kibbey pictured above.
 
I think those revolvers 1kperday has may be from Armi San Paulo. I couldn't find any markings on any of his stuff to confirm or deny my theory. I just worked on a Dragoon a short time ago that was identical to his down to the serial number! This one had an extremely short arbor, 3/8 of an inch, and would have self destructed sooner than later. Again no manufacturers markings to be found.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
I think those revolvers 1kperday has may be from Armi San Paulo.
Click to expand...
Jackrabbit1957,
I have never come across a Paterson, Walker, Dragoon or Pocket/Baby Dragoon marked with any of the Armi San Paulo logos.
If you have links to pictures of them, I would love to add them to my library of Black Powder Firearms Identification Photos.
Thanks,
EK
 
I don't have pics of them, and it's just a theory at this point. Of the pistols I worked on none had a manufacturer stamp logo or any other identification marks. The last I worked on had a good factory finish and hadn't been defarbed. The internal parts were rough finished and clunky with a very short arbor. I compared it to both ASM and Uberti horse pistols and it didn't match either one. It tuned up nicely tho and I gave to my brother for Xmas. My gut feeling on these is late 60s to early 70 s production but the maker is a bit of a mystery.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
I don't have pics of them, and it's just a theory at this point. Of the pistols I worked on none had a manufacturer stamp logo or any other identification marks. The last I worked on had a good factory finish and hadn't been defarbed. The internal parts were rough finished and clunky with a very short arbor. I compared it to both ASM and Uberti horse pistols and it didn't match either one. It tuned up nicely tho and I gave to my brother for Xmas. My gut feeling on these is late 60s to early 70 s production but the maker is a bit of a mystery.
Click to expand...

I think the only one other than ASM and Uberti that made horse pistols was Palmetto.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
I think those revolvers 1kperday has may be from Armi San Paulo. I couldn't find any markings on any of his stuff to confirm or deny my theory. I just worked on a Dragoon a short time ago that was identical to his down to the serial number! This one had an extremely short arbor, 3/8 of an inch, and would have self destructed sooner than later. Again no manufacturers markings to be found.
Click to expand...
Interesting!
 
hawg said:
I got it from Dr. Jim Davis that when Uberti supplied the parts for the Colt 2nd gens Uberti sub contracted ASM to supply Colt marked barrels. When Colt ceased production ASM got stuck with a lot of Colt marked barrels so ASM used them on their own guns.
Click to expand...
The barrels and cylinders were shipped to the US as raw forgings and hadn’t been machined so maybe ASM just pulled a fast one? At some point they were ordered to cease and desist from shipping Colt addressed revolvers.
 
woodnbow said:
The barrels and cylinders were shipped to the US as raw forgings and hadn’t been machined so maybe ASM just pulled a fast one? At some point they were ordered to cease and desist from shipping Colt addressed revolvers.
Click to expand...

Nah. Dr. Davis was the authority on bp revolvers. There's two different fonts on the barrel markings. One is Uberti and the other is ASM. Colt didn't have the tooling to engrave the cylinders. The frames and other parts were raw castings.
 
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