Ruger Mini-14 vs. AR-15 - Which one and why?

[benEzra]

#1: The Mini14 is a piston gas system and most AR15s are direct impingement. The Mini14 will run longer, cleaner, and cooler than a milspec AR15.

Having owned a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle and a Rock River DI AR, and having shot both extensively, I’ll say that in my experience, the mini ran hotter. In an AR, the gas sheds a lot of heat in the gas tube, passes through the gas key and operates the piston in the bolt, and is then vented outside the rifle via the gas exit holes in the bolt carrier. In a mini, the hot gas straight out of the gas port travels just over an inch before it launches the heavy bolt carrier, and then the very hot gas is vented inside the rifle, down the op rod channel in the stock (and Ranch Rifles used a lot of gas). The gas nozzle and the op rod and channel of mine got filthy pretty fast, and ran HOT. The front of the stock would get pretty hot too, despite the sheet metal liner, and woe be unto you if you slid your support hand forward to the end of the stock.

And the hot-baked powder residue could seize the op rod to the gas nozzle when it hardened if you weren’t careful. I had that happen once and had to put the butt on the ground and stomp the bolt handle with a boot to open the empty action.

Having said that, I like mini’s, and I’d buy a newer one in a heartbeat if I ever had $1k to burn on one.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

There are a few points I'd like to make based on some of the comments left so far.

#1: The Mini14 is a piston gas system and most AR15s are direct impingement. The Mini14 will run longer, cleaner, and cooler than a milspec AR15.

In acknowledgement that "technically correct" is the best kind of correct, an AR is more accurately referred to as an internal piston; "DI" is a misnomer.

 

[Ignition Override]

The look of the Mini must have been working on my subconscious for years since I sold it to have Enfield cash.

When the .308 Battle Rifle bug bit me at an advanced age, as my PTR-91 (G3 clone) Whispered that it needed a 'NATO mate'. the attraction of the S.A. M1A Standard was hard to resist. Never mind an imported FAL, or two.

One secondary blessing of the Mini-14, despite various disappointments for so many people, at least .223 range ammo for the Mini-14 is about Half the price of .308 used in it's symbolic "Mothership", the beautifully iconic M1A/M-14.

 

[dh1633pm]

Not another Mini versus AR thread, oh my. My answer is yes. For shooters who live where black means bad, the Mini is the ticket. Otherwise get both.

 

[Crosshair]

Check out these groups from a Mini-14 Tactical with a folding stock:

The orange circles are 2" and the groups were shot at 50 yards. There is more than one sub-MOA group there. Now, I only shot two, but you can bet that if I shot some more, it wouldn't be long before I came up with a 3-shot sub-MOA group -- and that would qualify for a lot of manufacturer's sub-MOA guarantees. Ruger could, by the same rights as other makers do, claim the Mini-14 comes with a "sub-MOA" guarantee. I don't think they have the gall to do that, but other makers do, and it lends to the perception that Mini-14's are behind the ball when it comes to accuracy. I don't doubt a Ruger American would be a safer bet for accuracy vs. a Mini-14, not to mention Ruger's Precision Rifle. Don't perceive this as a claim that the Mini-14 is more accurate than it really is. What I'm saying is that a lot of other rifles are perceived to be more accurate than they are and if we look at actual results vs. perceptions, we get a better picture of reality.

Exactly. The "MOA guarantee" is something nobody actually tests except with the 14 pound bull barrel ARs. The real world accuracy, shot under real world conditions, of a 7 pound AR and a 7 pound Mini are roughly comparable

 

[trackskippy]

Exactly. The "MOA guarantee" is something nobody actually tests except with the 14 pound bull barrel ARs. The real world accuracy, shot under real world conditions, of a 7 pound AR and a 7 pound Mini are roughly comparable.

If youre comparing the latest versions of the Mini vs you're run of the mill AR's, I would probably agree, especially if you put a red dot on them both and shoot them a bit more realistically.

If you're lumping all of the Mini's into that group, then no. And that was the very reason I got rid of the Mini's I had, as that very comparison you're suggesting, was the reason. The Minis would not keep up or even come close to the Colts of the era, which were the only AR's to compare them to at the time.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Competitive shooting weeds the hype as the losers still lose. Mini's winning any match are as common as hens teeth, unless there are some "mini only" matches I don't know about.

That may be true for accuracy, but little else. Otherwise lever action 30-30 wouldn't exist any more either. Functionally, for what they are, they are also way overpriced right now like the Mini 14 is in my book. But the Mini 14s have thier place just like lever 30-30's do, neither is going anywhere.
However, to jump up the ladder and say the Mini is superior to the Ar is foolish. It does have some pro's, but accuracy is not one of them. I'd like to come shoot my Checkmate Ar15 against anyone who says thier Mini 14 is equal.

 

[Ignition Override]

dh1633pm:

“…for shooters who live where black means bad…”

That’s a very good description about which I sometimes forget.
But do you mean the FUDDs who enable & appease the oppressors?

If the black Mini-14 scares them…hee hee heeee…I would Love for them to see my all-black Imbel FAL with the 21” barrel and attached muzzle device!

 

[CavalierLeif]

Appreciate all the replies - I figured this thread may have some fond/strong opinions both ways. And "both" is a good answer. Not being familiar with the Mini-14 beyond what I've read, really, I've been curious. Sure has a nice form factor.

 

[Walkalong]

My Mini-14 was fun for blazting 45 years ago, but I don’t do that anymore, so I’d go AR. It’s just too easy to make one shoot better than the Mini, and they are so easy to change around to fit the purpose

 

[InTheSwamp]

AR by a long shot.

 

[d2wing]

On the thread about Ruger's new Mini-14 SKU with the folding stock and bayonet lug, someone mentioned considering it if it were 2 MOA, and another person suggested 2 MOA would be the exception.

I know there are arguments from people whom I have no doubt understand accuracy and I am not going to convince them that the gun is more accurate than they believe. I don't doubt that there are AR-15's that will shoot tinier groups. On the other hand, I think there are widespread misconceptions about accuracy and that people who understand accuracy are the exception and not the rule. Here is some evidence:



Note that the video is about rifles in general and hunting rifles in particular. I don't think there is such widespread misconception among competitive benchrest shooters, F-class, PRS. I'm not educating any of those guys. On the other hand, I think there are guys who buy production AR-15's with a brand name or build one from brand-name components and believe they have a "sub-MOA" rifle.

I remember listening to Clint Smith one time griping about these guys -- I don't remember what he called them, but I would paraphrase and use the term "rifle snobs" -- and he said something like, "and they say stuff like, 'this one's sub-MOA,' but the problem is you can shoot sub-MOA." We're talking about the context of an Urban Rifle class -- that's what Clint is probably most famous for. I don't recall the Mini-14 being part of that conversation. You can hear Clint's opinion on the Mini-14 in the TFBTV episode with James Reeves. But the Mini-14 is valid in the context of Urban Rifle. It's not valid in PRS. And in the context of something like Urban Rifle, having a sub-MOA rifle just doesn't matter. It's like sorting primers by weight, or tuning seating depth, for a hunting rifle. Those things matter in a different context.

So, it's fair to ask, what kind of accuracy should a person expect from a rifle like the Mini-14 or a comparable M4 carbine? I think it's important to narrow down "the AR-15" to something that has a similar purpose to the Mini-14 because the AR can be built in to so many different types of guns. Maybe that's one of it's strengths as a category, but we can't compare a rifle like the Mini-14 to a category of rifles. To be fair, we'd have to compare it to a particular rifle. It wouldn't be fair say we're comparing the Sig P365 to hammer-fired handguns and pick a P365 to compare against a Shadow 2. So if we pick the M4 to compare, I think it's fair because similar to the Mini-14, the purpose isn't primarily to shoot small groups, nor is the purpose hunting, nor is it long-range shooting, or anything else that there are some rifles in the AR-15 category to do but which don't really compare to the Mini-14.

So is the M4 more accurate than the Mini-14?

I have posted a couple sub MOA targets with my fresh Del-Ton 16 inch carbine builds and better with a rifle build. But then I can't vouch for other shooters as not that many shoot very well.

 

[Crosshair]

That may be true for accuracy, but little else. Otherwise lever action 30-30 wouldn't exist any more either. Functionally, for what they are, they are also way overpriced right now like the Mini 14 is in my book. But the Mini 14s have thier place just like lever 30-30's do, neither is going anywhere.
However, to jump up the ladder and say the Mini is superior to the Ar is foolish. It does have some pro's, but accuracy is not one of them. I'd like to come shoot my Checkmate Ar15 against anyone who says thier Mini 14 is equal.

This is all a fancy roundabout way of saying that the AR is superior because it's the cheapest option. (By instead calling the alternatives "overpriced".) That's a perfectly valid opinion, people just need to be honest about it.

If ARs were still $1k+ and Minis still $500, people would be calling the AR an "Overpriced beer can".

 

[Hugger-4641]

This is all a fancy roundabout way of saying that the AR is superior because it's the cheapest option. (By instead calling the alternatives "overpriced".) That's a perfectly valid opinion, people just need to be honest about it.

If ARs were still $1k+ and Minis still $500, people would be calling the AR an "Overpriced beer can".

If ARs were still $1k+ and Minis still $500, people would be calling the AR an "Overpriced beer can".

I don't entirely agree. The fact still remains that my "overpriced beer can " will consistently shoot sub moa and my Mini 14 cannot. If that's the ONLY thing you value, then price of Ar being higher is maybe justifiable. That is not the only thing I place value on personally, but my opinion at the moment is there is nothing that justifies the current price of Mini 14 vs Ar-15.

 

[Mini30SS]

I’m a big Mini 14 fan. But when asked in this context (Mini vs AR)….considering the AR’s numerous advantages, I’m not sure why

California and New York. There may be others.

 

[d2wing]

Exactly. The "MOA guarantee" is something nobody actually tests except with the 14 pound bull barrel ARs. The real world accuracy, shot under real world conditions, of a 7 pound AR and a 7 pound Mini are roughly comparable

Nope, not even close. I have posted sub-MOA with almost all of my AR's on here. Standard cheap carbines, PSA and Del-Ton and another no name. Some folks can't shoot anything well. That is my observation being a former instructor and range officer. I have never seen a sub 2 MOA with a Ruger Mini. Like most people I sight in all my guns and I have standards of accuracy. I have also sighted in rifles for others, and am happy to test my guns against others. I think most guys on here are the same.

 

[weisse52]

I shot the AR platform long before I handled and shot the mini 14. The Mini 14‘s i have shot were never that accurate in my hands.
I have a friend who has a real fondness for the 14. He has one he has poured lots of money in to make it accurate rifle. In the end my Colt 6920 shoots as well or better at a much lower cost.

I like the 14…. Just like the AR platform better.

Nice to have options.

 

[d2wing]

This is all a fancy roundabout way of saying that the AR is superior because it's the cheapest option. (By instead calling the alternatives "overpriced".) That's a perfectly valid opinion, people just need to be honest about it.

If ARs were still $1k+ and Minis still $500, people would be calling the AR an "Overpriced beer can".

Hey, I have a summer place near Detroit Lakes. If you have a stock mini, I have a stock AR 15 carbine. $100 bucks at 100 yards? Or If you like to meet up sometime I would buy you a beer. I was at a relatives funeral at Red Lake Falls last summer.

 

[Mini30SS]

A mini-14 is only an accurate rifle to someone who does not actually understand what is an accurate rifle. Calling a Mini an accurate rifle is fanboi drivel...

I would agree that a mini 14 would probably not be considered accurate by a long distance, high power rifle competitor. But it is perfectly accurate for minute of dirtbag in downtown Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, ECT.

The mini 14 can also easily ring steel at ranges up to 300 yds. And a stainless steel , synthetic stock model can be much more practical in highly humid or salt water coastal areas.

In comparing the AR's and Mini 14's, They can both be pressed into service as GPR'S. I would admit that the AR, properly optioned could be pressed into service as an SPR or DMR. The mini 14 could only do that with serious gunsmithing upgrades, including a heavy barrel addition, possible caliber change.

The average buyer looking for an out of the box 5.56/.223 carbine would be well armed with either choice. One factor that favors the Ruger, is factory support. If you ever have a problem with your mini 14,30 , Ruger will take care of it. Not sure I could say the Same thing about Delton, Radical, Anderson, even Sig.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Appreciate all the replies - I figured this thread may have some fond/strong opinions both ways. And "both" is a good answer. Not being familiar with the Mini-14 beyond what I've read, really, I've been curious. Sure has a nice form factor.

Obviously there's lots of personal opinion and preferences to consider. Most will just beat the drum for the platform they like the most. I owned a Mini and didn't much care for it. In addition to the accuracy woes and proprietary mags I disliked the placement of the safety (don't like having to put my finger inside the trigger guard to actuate it) and didn't like the way the mags fit to the gun. You kind of hook them and rock them in like an AK mag, kind of a weird motion and hard to do quickly. I also didn't like the sights nor the non-adjustable stock. True, most legacy guns have fixed stocks but you get spoiled by the AR and other modern designs that let you adjust LOP. Lastly a Mini is okay for shooting at 5 gallon buckets and milk jugs in the daytime but it's very difficult to mount a light or really any other bit of kit to it. Hell, my old one predated the Ranch version, you couldn't even scope it out of the box!

 

[Mosin Bubba]

Minis are in that AK zone right now where the price heavily outweighs the cool factor.

 

[maxxhavoc]

A different perspective.



All of these are .223. Only one is what I would call accurate.

With a good rest, the mini is in the 2-3 MOA category.
The AR Scoped with a good rest is 1-1.5 MOA reliably.
On a bad day with a good rest, the R700 will open up to almost .75 MOA at 100 yards. On a good day, .3-.4 inches at 100.

So yes, the AR is more accurate than the Mini. But if you are looking for accuracy above all else, they both are sub-optimal unless you spend a LOT of money on an AR. Which will probably weigh 15 pounds.

And the Mini only has a scope because I am working on 62 grain loads. After load development is done....back to irons and the sling gets reattached.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Man, I miss the good old days when I could use irons! A peep sight is still usable for me (in good light) but the rest of them have grown fuzzy over the years.

 

[Bazoo]

I don't dislike AR15, particularly an A2 rifle, which looks and feels right to me. I like them both. I think the appeal of a Mini is the traditional wood stock. Traditional in a sense it doesn't have a pistol grip (yes it's "pistol gripped").

 

[Show Me]

Started out with a M&P sport. Did the assemble parts game for several years . Sold everything . Got itchy and bought a M&P sport 2 just to have next to my bed. That one AR makes me feel like a G. I. Joe figure from the 60's. Mini's just feel solid like my Garands. Wish there was a mini collector's magazine. Just how I feel lately