Single Action vs. Double Action

[mikemyers]

About the above photo - don't laugh at me too hard - it served its purpose several times, along with me using it to keep in shape when I travel.

 

[aaaaa]

The choice is "convenience" vs. "precision". While multi-focal lenses allow you to see things reasonably well at more than one difference, as a photographer, or shooter, I want the very best vision at one distance. This means wearing glasses, and multiple sets of glasses.

Shooters need safety glasses anyway, so get your safety glasses with the appropriate prescription for the targets, and another set for the front sight. 25 and 50 yards seem to work find with "distance" glasses. Front sight requires you to get an eye exam, with something held in front of you at the distance to the front sight.

(I made a fake gun, with a business card attached at the preferred distance, which made the whole process of getting the right prescription effortless. I'll post a photo if anyone wants to see it.)

Be sure you ask for "safety glass", which is one of several materials that won't shatter. Used to be "polycarbonate", but they have better materials nowadays.

I made mistake of getting high refraction index plastic and they said they are too thin for safety glasses. Polycarb is said to be good for safety glasses. I have been shooting with them anyway but probably should wear safety goggles on top of them.

I have not had much trouble shooting with the monovision. Am right eyed, and that eye is set up for distance with the glasses so sights are fuzzy. Left eye is set up for near and works for sharp focus of sights but fuzzy target. Shooting left eye is weird for me.

 

[mikemyers]

.......
I have not had much trouble shooting with the monovision. Am right eyed, and that eye is set up for distance with the glasses so sights are fuzzy. Left eye is set up for near and works for sharp focus of sights but fuzzy target. Shooting left eye is weird for me.

For Bullseye Shooting:

If you are right eyed, and that eye is now set for distance, you are all set for a red dot sight, as both the dot and the target will be sharp.

For open sights, you need to focus on the front sight, not the target. You can measure the distance between your eye and the front sight, and get a prescription for that distance.

That's why I made the model gun in the photo. The distance between my eye and the toothpick (represents front sight) is just like my 1911.

If you're shooting a revolver with 8" barrel, the prescription will be different because the distance to the front sight is longer.. That's why I now have an additional pair of glasses for my longer guns.

Distance to target doesn't matter.

 

[aaaaa]

For Bullseye Shooting:

If you are right eyed, and that eye is now set for distance, you are all set for a red dot sight, as both the dot and the target will be sharp.

For open sights, you need to focus on the front sight, not the target. You can measure the distance between your eye and the front sight, and get a prescription for that distance.

That's why I made the model gun in the photo. The distance between my eye and the toothpick (represents front sight) is just like my 1911.

If you're shooting a revolver with 8" barrel, the prescription will be different because the distance to the front sight is longer.. That's why I now have an additional pair of glasses for my longer guns.

Distance to target doesn't matter.

Oh to be young again!

 

[mikemyers]

Same problem - I'm about to turn 79.......

 

[mikemyers]

One of the problems with the 28 trigger is it was not built as a target gun, it was purpose built for a LEO gun and has heavier springs in the trigger than we would want for a target gun. Single action in my two Model 28s are really good, especially in my 1957 model because I have shot it the most.
Double action will require a trigger and spring job. I hear people say that the 28 is the same as the 27 except for the finish. It isn't the same inside, not polished, not sprung for optimal target shooting and so on.
.........
A trigger and spring job will go a long ways towards where you want to be though, I found that out when I bought my 57 and it was at least twice as easy to shoot double action because it was optimized as a hunting/target gun. Had the right springs to start with. ...... Your 14 is the same way, that's why you shoot it the best. ....... Get a spring kit and a polish job on your Model 28 and you will notice a big difference ......

I've been thinking of this quite a bit lately, and I doubt I'm going to buy another revolver - I've already got a Model 17 (22) and the Model 14 (38), and I think that's more than enough.

I also think I will take your advice, and take my Model 28 to my local gunsmith to have him polish the parts and do a "trigger job", as I'm sure it needs that. From what you write, in single-action, it might not need much of anything, but I'll do it anyway.

From what you wrote, it could benefit from lighter springs in the trigger. Do you happen to know of what specific springs I need to buy, and where to buy them? No reason not to do that at the same time. Anything else you would recommend buying? I won't be able to get to this for several weeks.

One other option - I was in touch with a gunsmith who specializes in S&W revolvers. I could send the gun to him, and I'm sure he could make it perfect. But - to be honest - how much more do I need, if I only shoot it single-action, as I shoot all my target guns??

Thanks again for posting this. It's a good roadmap to get what I want.

This is my Model 28:

 

[Russ57]

Mike, using the same ammo, how much better is your 25 yard target with the model 14?

Do you have a trigger pull gauge? If so, what is the difference between the 14 and 28?

Is that target above with 357 or 38 ammo (I assumed 38)? When I shoot 38 loads in my 357 I have to put a lot of time into cleaning my chambers and forcing cone. It is a royal PITA. I'm talking 45-70 brush spun in a cordless drill for the chambers after soaking in solvent for hours stuff.

I think the keys are; is it the trigger? Is it the frame size and weight? Could it be cleaning and/or ammo?

I would be happy with those groups but I can understand your desire for better ones.

It is within the ability of most to change springs and polish surfaces in your 28. Wolff spring kit is 16 bucks and Wilson's is 14 (get a 8-32 by 1/2" allen head set screw in stainless and blue loctite too). If you have a Arkansas knife sharpening stone and honing oil polishing is free. Don't touch sear unless you are willing to buy a jig.

You might be surprised how well a S&W does in DA.

 

[mikemyers]

Let's see.... I have a trigger pull gauge, but in single-action, the only way I shoot targets there isn't much difference. Both are effortless.

I don't shoot 357, only 38, and for a long time I shot the same 38 special wadcutters I loaded for my Model 52. I need to get back to doing that. The 38 Special rounds in the above target were remanufactured ammo, rather inexpensive from Georgia Arms. I haven't shot them in the Model 14 yet, only my wadcutters. Yeah, cleaning takes a lot of effort, but I find it to be enjoyable effort.

Frame size and weight - the 8" Model 14 "feels" heavier than the 6" Model 28, because of all that weight out front.

All the articles I read on the Model 28 and the Model 27 that went into the technical details said both guns were identical inside. I will get the work done by my gunsmith, but that would be mostly for double-action shooting. I don't see the gun being any better in Single Action, and I think the biggest problem is me, not the gun.

I don't doubt the last thing you wrote, but the problem/issue/whatever is me. I guess I ought to try shooting double-action again, once the gun is smoothed up.

I have lots of target photos from over the years with this gun. I shot this one a year or two ago, but I didn't record the shooting distance - 15 or 25 yards. Shoot'n'see target means it is from several years ago. I think the stocks/grips I had on it back then were "Altamont", but to be honest, I like both the look and feel of the original stocks/grips more.

I think revolvers are mostly "out of fashion" these days, but not for me. I find them very satisfying and enjoyable to shoot targets.

 

[MrBorland]

Mr. Borland used to be the forum moderator here...
I wonder if he is still around.

I don't shoot much any more (change in life's priorities - all good), but I still lurk.

I also think I will take your advice, and take my Model 28 to my local gunsmith to have him polish the parts and do a "trigger job", as I'm sure it needs that. From what you write, in single-action, it might not need much of anything, but I'll do it anyway.

From what you wrote, it could benefit from lighter springs in the trigger. Do you happen to know of what specific springs I need to buy, and where to buy them? No reason not to do that at the same time. Anything else you would recommend buying? I won't be able to get to this for several weeks.

One other option - I was in touch with a gunsmith who specializes in S&W revolvers. I could send the gun to him, and I'm sure he could make it perfect. But - to be honest - how much more do I need, if I only shoot it single-action, as I shoot all my target guns??

I don't recall if you said you thoroughly cleaned and lubed the innards of your 28, but that would be a start.

As far as professional tuning, while S&W revolvers aren't exactly the space shuttle, any gunsmith who I'd trust to do an action job will know that an action job is more than just a spring swap (my confidence level goes up considerably if they're a revolver fan and/or are actually a competent revolver shooter themselves). They would also know what springs to install for the level of reliability I'm after, that the main and rebound springs should be balanced, that "smooth" is more important than "light" (and how to get "smooth"), and that things inside & out need to be straight, true and plumb (and how to get it there if needed). And speaking of "inside", they'd also know how to open up and get inside a revolver properly, without marring or damaging your revolver. There's no guarantee a "S&W specialist" will be any better than your local 'smith, so both would be worth a closer look.

You mentioned the size of your 28 - it could also play a role in your DA wobble if the reach to the trigger is too great. Some tricks here would be to be sure you're using grips that leave the revolver's backstrap exposed (IIRC, the factory grips on your 28 leave the backstrap exposed, but are a bit too wide and flare too much at the bottom for my taste. YMMV, of course). You should also be gripping the revolver high - you shouldn't see any backstrap peeking out from under the web between your thumb and trigger finger when you're gripping the gun. Finally, a narrow trigger is better for DA shooting, particularly on a large-framed S&W. A wide target trigger is good for SA shooting, but not so good for DA shooting. Whether your 28 has the standard or wide factory target trigger, I'd consider having your smith narrow it down and radius the edges. If you don't want to mar the factory hammer, I'd look for a replacement.

 

[mikemyers]

Hello there, long time no see!!! Good to know you're still around. I remember how talented you were at shooting, and how good you were at answering questions and making others (me) feel more confident.

Yes, a long, long time ago I followed these instructions:


I was able to clean my Model 28, and I stayed away from anything I didn't feel capable of doing. Maybe it's time for me to do this again, but maybe I should just leave it to my gunsmith? Haven't decided for sure, but I suspect it's better for him to look into it. From what you wrote, that reinforces my desire to let the gunsmith do it.

Yes, I learned to grip the revolver as high as I can comfortably grip it, and since I'm only shooting single-action the "wobble" from double action doesn't apply. The "wobble" in my opinion is due to varying resistance as I pull the trigger (maybe too slowly) - it's not a nice smooth pull like my Python. The gun has standard with trigger and hammer, not the "competition" parts.

I've got medium size hands - the gun is probably too big for me, but the targets I posted up above are likely as good as I am, or was, capable of doing.

(I watch Hickok45 too much - I want to shoot like he does!)

Good to hear from you, and that you're doing well. You were so proficient at shooting, you must miss it. ....life's priorities. I guess we all have to deal with that.

 

[MrBorland]

Maybe it's time for me to do this again, but maybe I should just leave it to my gunsmith? Haven't decided for sure, but I suspect it's better for him to look into it. From what you wrote, that reinforces my desire to let the gunsmith do it.

Sometimes, an old revolver that hasn't been shot in many years can be varnished up inside, and that can certainly affect the action, but beyond that, the internals shouldn't need regular cleaning & lubing - at least for the volume most of us shoot. If you've properly cleaned & lubed it already, and the DA trigger still feels like a stick being pulled along a picket fence, it would certainly benefit from a good and complete action job if you'd like to shoot it well in DA mode. Otherwise, it sounds like SA is working for you.

you must miss it.

I had the time and resources, and the virtue was in the journey & the focus. I'll get to the range once in a great while for some funzies, but that's all it is now (or ever was, really) - my time now is much better spent, with the virtue being a good husband, best friend, and stepdad (and gentleman homesteader ).