Straw Purchase: What would you do?

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I agree that you handled it all very well. You did not make an Azz out of yourself by running in there and screaming about a straw sale and you, let the owner of the range know you are looking out for him as well as yourself. I would think he would get you an hour free on the range for that.
 
Interesting how some here are suggesting we be selective about what potential crimes we should report. Watch out for your fellow man, unless you don't agree with the law?

Frankly the only reason I can see for a straw purchase is for someone who can't currently legally purchase a gun. So I'm supposed to look the other way?
 
What if he was watching the ATF set up a gun shop owner? I wouldn't put it an inch past them to deliberately deceive an FFL holder, considering how they've been shutting gun shops down for trivial paperwork violations.
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Actually that was my first thought, as I've had two FFL's tell me that they had both sniffed out ATF stings (they're pretty obvious). Granted, this was during the 90's when Clinton was trying to put a lot of FFL's out of business, but it is a possibility.

I'd let the FFL know. I wouldn't call the cops or ATF.
 
I think straw purchase laws are about as stupid as most other gun control laws.

I would mind my own business.

Hell I think if I had seen what you just described, my first thought was that he was scoping it out to see if the gun she wanted, was there. Many many women don't like gun shops, don't like the people that hang out in them and don't like the way they are treated by the people in the store etc.

So I would assume she wanted gun X, sent guy in to see if they had it, and then she'd go in to take a look or buy if needed.

And so I wouldn't have thought it was a straw purchase as my first line of reasoning.

That said I find the fact that you'd need an FFL for hand gun transfers between private individuals from two different states flat out stupid. Meaning, if I have a friend or family member want to give or sell me a handgun they don't want, I have to get an FFL involved when there is absolutely no freaking reason for it. This very scenario, I am sure, results in tons of straw purchases every year, that ultimately no one cares or will hear about.

I can sell a car, knife, chainsaw, axe etc without an FFL what makes a gun different.
 
MisterPX said:
I hope you guys decide to MYOB if I rob a bank. Nobody's gettin hurt, so you guys shouldn't call the cops on me.
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Seriously. Yeah, lets not worry about getting gun shops getting shut down when they get sued in civil court by the parents the victims the deadbeat shot.

Hey, at least we still have our principles, right? :rolleyes:

There's a time to stick to your own guns, and a time to realize that gun laws can go one of two ways in this country. I'm of the opinion that we are much, much closer to the latter than the former.
 
the only thing

all i see about this is one little thing, which OP handled really well-
just be polite about it.

there's no harm at all in making an honest mistake, and i would simply be prepared to apologize and explain to the person i suspected, IF it came to a point of them knowing i said something.

I am constantly running across semi-suspicious activity and often end up feeling a little foolish, but for example i say well if you saw someone who looked like me doing that... and that usually ends it with a smile.

point being better safe than sorry
 
Watch out for your fellow man, unless you don't agree with the law?

yes yes yes

it is your CIVIC DUTY to NOT ENFORCE laws you do not agree with.
(i am not against most of the laws that create straw purchases, so this is a bit off topic)

if you are on a jury , and someone is tried for an unjust law, it is your right and duty NOT to convict.

exception i am not sure how it works for LEO on duty, i'll venture to be an LEO you are by default supporting all the laws?, which creates a huge prob. ugh, this needs a thread..

anyway if you are totally against any prohibition of gun buying, then you should never report anything you see as far as guns. if you agree with that law, i would not hesitate to act if i thought i saw a straw purchase.

of course there is always somebody throwing monkey wrenches
Seriously. Yeah, lets not worry about getting gun shops getting shut down when they get sued in civil court by the parents the victims the deadbeat shot.

Hey, at least we still have our principles, right?
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you cant win can you
 
Seriously. Yeah, lets not worry about getting gun shops getting shut down when they get sued in civil court by the parents the victims the deadbeat shot.
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If the gun shop gets shut down then its no one's fault but their own. If I walk in to the shop, fully intending on buying a gun for my felon friend, have all the proper paperwork and am legally able to buy a gun, how is the store going to know if I keep my mouth shut.

The short answer is they aren't. And the result is that they won't lose their license because there wasn't anything they did wrong. The shop will only be liable for missing something they should have spotted.


Frankly the only reason I can see for a straw purchase is for someone who can't currently legally purchase a gun. So I'm supposed to look the other way?
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And how do you know for sure its a straw purchase.


Interesting how some here are suggesting we be selective about what potential crimes we should report. Watch out for your fellow man, unless you don't agree with the law?
Click to expand...

You would have a point if I, or any other private citizen had a duty to enforce technical laws. Like I said, this isn't a crime against a person, or even a crime against property. No one is being hurt and nothing is being stolen. There is no "fellow man" to watch out for here.

No one is going to run to a squad car to reort a jaywalker. This law has the same consequences.
 
I consider my local dealer to be my friend. I don't want my friend to be hurt, so I tell him about any observations that I have made that may affect him.

All this talk of possible legitimate explanations of what went on are totally irrelevant. If my fantasies are just that, fantasies, at least I have done my job by providing a heads-up.

"MYOB" is a way of saying, "To hell with you."
 
So, what if...

Many posters are focused on the "rightness" of the OP's behavior, I think to great extent b/c it seems to have caused no harm.

Suppose the gunshop guy had NOT known who the couple were? Suppose the lady DID try to buy a gun, and the salesguy rang for a cop? Suppose the cop came and wanted ID all around, wanted to search their cars (you got nothing to hide, right?) and run background checks? If the guy had no criminal background, no problem, I suppose.

I would have wanted a lot more before informing. People running to snitch b/c two human beings spoke in a parking lot seems more than a little Orwellian to me. There are always reasons to justify our interference with others on civic, even moral, grounds. Sometimes we're right. Sometimes we're just busybodies.
 
Stage 2 said:
...how is the store going to know if I keep my mouth shut.
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They simply won't and that will still not stop the civil suits or the feel-good politicians. Gunshop et Witness to the people going for a Straw Purchase who MYOB'd 0, Gun-Grabbers 1.
 
They simply won't and that will still not stop the civil suits or the feel-good politicians. Gunshop et Witness to the people going for a Straw Purchase who MYOB'd 0, Gun-Grabbers 1.
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Well, yes it will. For the same reason that the guy who sold the gun to the nutjob at VATech is still in business, such a gunshop would be in business as well if they did everything right.
 
Interesting how some here are suggesting we be selective about what potential crimes we should report. Watch out for your fellow man, unless you don't agree with the law?
Click to expand...

Sure, Herr Eichmann.

I see your point, but if you can't see that there's SOME point at which to follow your moral compass instead of "the Law", then you're a frightening person. And a common one, sadly.
 
Hi Thorn,

exception i am not sure how it works for LEO on duty, i'll venture to be an LEO you are by default supporting all the laws?, which creates a huge prob. ugh, this needs a thread..
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Interesting point, I agree it needs a thread. I know in the military you have a duty do disobey an illegal order. It would appear to me that an LEO that has sworn an oath to enforce the laws must do just that. If that oath includes the Constitution said LEO would be in a moral quagmire.

Selena
 
The OP didn't have to do what he did, and I wouldn't blame him if he just went on his way. He in no way has any obligation to get involved.

That said, as long as it's brought up discretely, I'd have no problem with it.

I did have a similar situation a couple of months back, and although I wouldn't have gotten into trouble, it would have been a possible bad scene.

A woman came in to buy a gun. She wanted a handgun, under $300. She didn't seem to have any great knowledge of firearms. In and of itself, nothing illegal.

However, one of my regulars (a probation officer) recognized her as the wife of a guy who's been in and out of the local correctional system on drug charges (one involving weapons), and he let me know.

After a couple of subtle questions, it became quite obvious that she was buying for her husband, and I was able to cut the sale off.

If the sale had gone off without me knowing, I wouldn't be in trouble, but trust me, if the gun's used in a crime, you don't want the ATF guys giving you the eye when they come in to do the trace. I have a deep-seated fear of guys in polo shirts with clipboards.

As I said, no obligation, but I was glad for the heads-up.
 
I'd whip out my concealed carry badge and draw my tacticool 20mm handbazooka and shout "Freeze Punk!". I would then bind the whole store with zip cuffs until my backup arrived in their tactical golf carts to take them away to the mall ninja cave.

sorry I couldn't resist.
 
Interesting how some here are suggesting we be selective about what potential crimes we should report. Watch out for your fellow man, unless you don't agree with the law?
Click to expand...
"A law repugnant to the constitution is void"
Who said that?

As long as we are going to play what ifs here consider BrashBoy's comment
Suppose the gunshop guy had NOT known who the couple were? Suppose the lady DID try to buy a gun, and the salesguy rang for a cop? Suppose the cop came and wanted ID all around, wanted to search their cars (you got nothing to hide, right?) and run background checks? If the guy had no criminal background, no problem, I suppose.
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How's that for watching put for your fellow man
Subject him to LE scrutiny because he might, maybe, could have possibly been thinking about breaking a repugnant law, or not
 
You could have said....do you two work for Bloomberg?:neener:

I wouldn't even be paying that much attention honestly. Call me a sheep for it if you will, so be it, but minding my own business is something I do rather well.
 
You can do what you like.
I would have minded my own.
The person filling out the form 4473 has to bear the burden of a possible lie.
Stores don't have polygraphs to use on buyers, so how could they be held responsible for another persons actions, if they did not know that they were being lied to.?
Not trying to tear you down, just my opinion.
 
I agree with Jungleroy. If the woman's paperwork was in order, that's all the gun shop should be concerned with. I have accompanied women who were buying guns, right into the store. Women aren't usually comfortable in gun shops by themselves. The clerks never even blinked, and this is NJ.

I'm against gun control, so I would have minded my own business.
 
Yep, you did the right thing...and looks like you got a lot of support here on the matter.

FYI, I'm in PA. We are getting a lot of anti-rights legislation from the Philadelphia reps due to an explosion of violence in the city. Most has died in committee, thank goodness.
As usual, they're blaming guns...but the real issue is straw purchasers buying guns for felons and other prohibited person
So...if I saw what you saw, I'd of done the same as you...
 
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