The perfect rifle: The 30-30

[Danaidh]

Before folks launch into me, let me explain my opinion and position. I am aware of all the "run faster, jump higher, fly higher, go further, fragmenting, & wall penetrating" calibers out there. But there is something about a 30-30 made by any brand rifle manufacturer.

I started shooting/hunting with a rifle (a 1968 Marlin 336-RC lever action) when I was 12 years old (41 years ago). My parents had bought the rifle used for $40. An old friend of the family was a gunsmith and reloader. I learned to reload most all calibers but in particular the 30-30. If I had to speculate, I have shot maybe 5,000 + rounds through the old gal. She is well cared for and attended to & still shoots perfectly accurate.

Until recent years, I was perfectly happy reloading and shooting the Remington corelokt, Hornady or any other manufacturer's 150 or 170 grain bullets. Then Hornady came out with the 160 grain "Gummy tipped" Leverolution cartridge. I did not purchase this cartridge because for my hunting and shooting purposes the older bullets worked just fine and I am a cheapie.
[DISCLAIMER: I am not associated with Hornady or any other manufacturer of bullets for reloading. These comments are related only from my own experiences.]

Later, Hornady released the 160 grain stand alone Gummy tipped bullet for reloading your own cartridges. I acquired some of the said gummy tips and experimented. As others have found, this bullet (Properly loaded) shoots very accurately and extends the range of the old 30-30. However, I still load other manufacturer's bullets.
[ DISCLAIMER: I choose not to advertise my reload recipe. Instead, I encourage everyone learning to reload to work up your own safe loads. It makes you a better and more knowledgeable reloader.]

Now we/they have created the perfect rifle for my purposes. Folks talk about a truck/atv/utv/knock-around gun. A 30-30 suits this niche perfectly. It is short, relatively light, very handy and has great accuracy Considering it's 150-200 yard range. Although there are other great truck guns, etc., there are none that fill this purpose better than the 30-30. Its also great for home protection. Winchester, Marlin, or any other brand will do just fine.

As a matter of fact, the 30-30 is my UTV rifle. I just killed a hog with it yesterday while perusing the hunting property checking hunting stands/blinds. With 41 years of Alabama's historically liberal deer bag limit and extensively long seasons, I have literally lost count of the number of deer taken with the old 30-30. My son and Grandson learned to shoot and hunt with this 30-30. Now grown, they each have their own 30-30 in their collections.

As a parting shot, yes I have other calibers, bolt action and other shoot-um up powerful, long range rifles. However, for our part of the country (Alabama), there is simply none better that the OLD 30-30. It is the Perfect Rifle for anyone's use within the 30-30's range and capability. Know your game and your own capabilities but EVERYONE needs a 30-30!!!

With kind regards, enough of my rambling,
Danaidh

 

[tubeshooter]

My first center fire rifle was a .30-30, and I'll always be a fan. It is a good intermediate, general purpose round in my view.

I find that the people who don't like it either feel it is too mild, or never really liked leverguns anyway. Or both.

I haven't shot mine all that much, but it's all I need here in NC. Of course there have been advances since it's inception, but it is effective in a quaint kind of way. Kind of like .45 Colt I guess, but a little bit younger.

Never thought I'd see the day when people would ask $50 or even $100 for a box of shelf ammo. But then again I never thought I'd see a lot of things here lately.



I hope that Ruger can really knock it out of the park with their version of the Marlin .30-30 when they get around to making them. I have heard good things about the new 1895s, so that's a good sign. The future of the .30-30 is literally hanging in the balance IMHO (with apologies to Henry and the other manufacturers). I guess we'll see.

 

[FL-NC]

The 30-30 is definitely effective for many uses. In places where I hunt, where a shot at a deer or hog 100 yards is hard to come by (20-50 is almost always what happens on the ground) it is definitely a great choice. My 30-30 is an older 94, which is not "scope friendly". Even at these closer ranges, that is a slight disadvantage when hunting in timber- even a low power scope (3x or 4x) can help in target ID for things like being able to count points before committing to a shot, or just to improve visibility when hunting from an enclosed blind in late afternoon when the light may not be at its best. No problem with the performance of what comes out of the muzzle, though.

 

[Danaidh]

My Marlin is scoped with an old 3-9 Redfield. Some folks do not think scoping a lever action looks good or for other reasons. Each for their own. I prefer a scope for better viewing and accurate shooting in all environmental conditions. Every rifle that I own wears a scope. The bigger and more powerful the scope, the better. Personally, I am after practical shooting.

An old very knowledgeable gentleman told me many years ago, buy a cheap accurate rifle and put your money in the scope! This makes sense. Most any rifle will shoot with reasonable accuracy but you have to see the target to utilize the rifles accuracy.

Danaidh

 

[pert near]

There is no doubt the .30-30 is an excellent deer round. What many shooter's complain about is the "pie-plate" accuracy of the old lever guns. The upper ejection that prevents a standard scope mounting is another turn-off. As mentioned, the flat-nose bullet requirement doesn't generate any love. Even though Marlin/Hornady has solved some of these problems the stigma remains. Many don't know that a lot of early benchrest matches were won with the .30-30 cartridge. Yet that pesky rim made feeding in bolt guns a challenge (except for single-shots). The .30 Rem solution sort of eventually faded to the obsolete as the rimless .30-30. But as a short range, handy rifle to grab, with multiple rounds, that you can quickly shoulder up & shoot, the .30-30 is king.

Long live the .30-30!

 

[bearcreek]

An old very knowledgeable gentleman told me many years ago, buy a cheap accurate rifle and put your money in the scope! This makes sense. Most any rifle will shoot with reasonable accuracy but you have to see the target to utilize the rifles accuracy.

Danaidh

If I could find a decent lever action that fit that description, I'd love to buy it. People want a million bucks for the damn things these days though, it seems.

 

[Bayou52]

I reload 30–30 using the 160 grain Hornady FTX projectile as well. I use LVR powder also. I simply use the load that is printed on the front of the LVR canister, and that is 35.5 grains which is a compressed load.

The published muzzle velocity for this load is 2389 ft./s. After putting this load on a chronograph, the published data is correct and I was getting 2390 - 2400 ft./s from of this load.

A for certain deer slayer at least for under 200 yards…

Bayou52

 

[hawg]

I'm one of those that will never scope a 30-30. A 30-30 is an excellent woods gun but it's not worth squat across a soybean field. I have taken many deer with my old 30-30 Winchester. I doubt I've taken one at more than 100 yards.

 

[doubleh]

You know what they say about opinions. Mine is that while the 30-30 is ideal for some conditions it is severely limited in others. I have a very old 1894 Winchester that was a gift. I have never taken it hunting because it doesn't fit my needs.

 

[Pat Riot]

I own two 30-30 lever guns. A Winchester 94 carbine and a Marlin 336. Both guns wear XS sights. The Marlin also has the XS scope rail and I will be scoping it at some point.
I have not taken game with either rifle, mostly because I haven’t had the opportunity as I lived in the west coast and hunting in CA is more like “camping with guns” in the zones I always ended up with there. I now live in West Virginia near the PA border. My family lives in PA. I plan to hunt deer this year with the Marlin. Maybe I will finally get a deer.

The Winchester and the Marlin are both very accurate as far as 30-30’s go with my loads and I was very pleased with their accuracy with Hornady’s Leverevolution ammo.

About ten years ago I went in a salmon fishing trip to Oregon with an ex-buddy of mine. I took my Winchester in a gun rug and I stored it between the 2nd and 3rd row seats of my wife’s Suburban. He had this huge styrofoam cooler that he assured me that it did not leak. It leaked and for a few days that cloth gun rug soaked up a bunch of water. When got home from my trip my Winchester had surface rust all over.
I ended up Cerakoting the gun (except for one pin…duh!) and this is what it looks like today. It’s a rifle I will never part with.

 

[N555]

30-30 was also my first center fire rifle.
It became obsolete when I moved to new Mexico but found new life with a 12 power leupold scope, very high ballistic coefficient (when compared to any other 30-30 bullet) 160gr ftx bullets and unusually slow burning leverevolution powder (burns more like w760, where typical 30-30 powders are faster like w748, 3031, h322).

 

[Choctaw]

My Marlin is scoped with an old 3-9 Redfield. Some folks do not think scoping a lever action looks good or for other reasons. Each for their own. I prefer a scope for better viewing and accurate shooting in all environmental conditions. Every rifle that I own wears a scope. The bigger and more powerful the scope, the better. Personally, I am after practical shooting.

An old very knowledgeable gentleman told me many years ago, buy a cheap accurate rifle and put your money in the scope! This makes sense. Most any rifle will shoot with reasonable accuracy but you have to see the target to utilize the rifles accuracy.

Danaidh

I used to be one of those people who thought scoping a lever gun was anathema. But then I started aging and my eyesight wasn't what it was when I was young and dumb. Now I'm of the opinion that modifying a firearm to keep it shooting is the only wise choice.

 

[gwpercle]

I've always been rather fond of the 30-30 . Jacketed bullet hunting loads will take white tail deer and hogs .
A few 30 cal. bullet moulds will let you turn out cast bullet ammo for small game of the small and medium size . Casting bullets and handloading the 30-30 got me through the great 22 LR ammo depression of 2012 ( I think it was 2012) ... Couldn't find a box of 22 LR so the 30-30 stepped up ... the Lee C309-113-F along with a few grains of Bullseye , Red Dot or Unique did right well in place of the 22 LR .
Gary

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Many, many years ago I found my first centerfire rifle, an old 30-30 Winchester Model 1894, for sale on the side of the road in upstate New York.

Looking back on it, it was an unusual rifle. The barrel had been cut down to carbine length, 20" if I recall correctly, and the magazine had been cut down to half length, but it had the old rifle style curved crescent shaped butt plate, not the flatter 'shotgun style' butt plate one usually sees on carbines. Being cut down, with the half length magazine, it was very light. Also, I did not know back then the proper way to shoot a rifle with a crescent shaped butt stock. I could only stand to fire about three shots out of it, because the sharp points of the crescent shaped butt stock would dig into the fleshy part of my shoulder and it hurt like heck. After three shots I was flinching so much I could not shoot it any more.

That old rifle was stolen many years ago.

I am not a hunter, so I decided some time ago that I had no need for a classic deer rifle like the Winchester Model 1894.

But a few years ago I came upon this one in a local gun shop. I am a little bit unclear about when it was made, my notes say between 1943 and 1948. Note the classic 'carbine' features. Not just the short barrel. Flat butt plate, this one has a steel butt plate, two barrel bands, and a lack of a metal fore end cap at the front of the fore stock. It shoots quite well, and if I was a hunter I suppose it would make a good 'woods rifle'.






I found this 30-30 Winchester Model 1894 Rifle at an auction a few years ago. The barrel on this rifle is a full octagon, 26" long. Notice the features which are different from a carbine. No barrel bands, the magazine is suspended under the barrel by a magazine hanger dovetailed into the bottom of the barrel. The fore stock is also held on by a dovetailed hanger which is hidden from view. Yes, there is a fore end cap, typical of Winchesters made in the rifle configuration. Lastly, it has the deeply scalloped curved butt plate that was typical of Winchesters made in the rifle configuration. It also has a nice tang mounted peep sight.

This is quite an old Model 1894, it left the factory in 1895.






The caliber marking on the rifle is 30 W.C.F. (Winchester Center Fire) which is the older name for the 30-30 cartridge.






I have since learned the proper way to shoot a rifle with a curved butt plate like this. My mistake with the old one was mounting the butt stock directly to the meaty part of my shoulder, which is why the points were digging into me in recoil. A rifle with a butt plate like this needs to be mounted further out on the shoulder joint, with the points encircling the joint. The points are designed to keep the rifle from slipping up or down, they should not be contacting the body.

I'm happy to say this nice old rifle shoots very well, if a little bit high, the target was only set 25 yards out, but I'm sure it would do quite well at 100 yards with the open sights.






Here is a comparison photo of the two 1894 Winchesters. I just wish I still had that old cut down Model 1894, now that I understand the proper way to shoot it.

 

[Bayou52]

DJ -

I noted that the first model 94 pictured in your above post has a flat band. That is, the forward barrel band has a flat surface rather than usual and customary convex surface. These models are commonly known as “flat bands”.

I have a flat band model 94 in 32 Winchester special that was manufactured in 1947. It was one of the first production rifles Winchester commercially produced following World War II.

Here’s a pic:



Bayou52

 

[DMW1116]

I use my 30-30 as my tinkering gun. Push a 110 grain FMJ fast? Push a 135 grain cast slow? Hunting load of 150 grain round nose? I currently have converted my 336 to shoot cast. If you want to see 30-30 capability, check out Sagebrush Longshots hitting a 2’x4’ target out to 900 yards with cast bullets and vernier sights.

 

[Charlie98]

Actually, my route was a little different.

I bought a Marlin 336 in .30-30 for my brother, many years ago. A nice enough rifle, so I found a nice mid-50's 336 a few years ago, and traded for it. Again... a nice enough rifle... and then I bought a Savage 99, albeit in .308. That slick Savage made the 336 feel like a barn door... so I sold my 336 to a friend of mine, and found a pre-war Savage 99 takedown in .30-30. For those of you who aren't familiar with the Savage 99, it has an internal 5-round rotary magazine... so spire-point bullets have always been OK in them. That also keeps the weight of a fully loaded magazine back behind the off-hand... helping with balance.

I don't know if I'd consider the .30-30 the 'perfect' rifle, but it takes a pretty good swing at the title, and certainly has plenty of merit.

My mid-'60's 99 in .308 on the left, my 1922 99 takedown in .30-30 on the right. There are some subtle differences... including the location of the safety, the forearm mounting (on the takedown,) and the ability to mount a peep sight (as you can see, my .308 has a Williams on it, already... the pre-war will need a more expensive Marbles tang-mounted peep.)

 

[plainsdrifter]

I had two 30-30's in the late 70's. A plain ole Winchester and a Centennial model octagonal loooong barrel. I hunted lots of white tail with the smaller one. Now I just have this little safe queen I stumbled onto couple years ago. Circa '79. The perfect bush rifle.




'

 

[EMC45]

I own two 30-30 lever guns. A Winchester 94 carbine and a Marlin 336. Both guns wear XS sights. The Marlin also has the XS scope rail and I will be scoping it at some point.
I have not taken game with either rifle, mostly because I haven’t had the opportunity as I lived in the west coast and hunting in CA is more like “camping with guns” in the zones I always ended up with there. I now live in West Virginia near the PA border. My family lives in PA. I plan to hunt deer this year with the Marlin. Maybe I will finally get a deer.

The Winchester and the Marlin are both very accurate as far as 30-30’s go with my loads and I was very pleased with their accuracy with Hornady’s Leverevolution ammo.

About ten years ago I went in a salmon fishing trip to Oregon with an ex-buddy of mine. I took my Winchester in a gun rug and I stored it between the 2nd and 3rd row seats of my wife’s Suburban. He had this huge styrofoam cooler that he assured me that it did not leak. It leaked and for a few days that cloth gun rug soaked up a bunch of water. When got home from my trip my Winchester had surface rust all over.
I ended up Cerakoting the gun (except for one pin…duh!) and this is what it looks like today. It’s a rifle I will never part with.
View attachment 1098017

View attachment 1098018

Nice levergun. Glad to hear you are out of CA as well.

 

[Risky buisness]

Since I was old enough to be able to purchase one with my own resources at 12, I have not been without one for the last 50+ years. Are they perfect? For the generalities, absolutely. Handy, light, and reasonably accurate. With an eye towards reloading and a more suitable sight set up the 30WCF can really be much more than factory 150/ 170s allow making this venerable cartridge well suited for a variety of tasks.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Actually, my route was a little different.

I bought a Marlin 336 in .30-30 for my brother, many years ago. A nice enough rifle, so I found a nice mid-50's 336 a few years ago, and traded for it. Again... a nice enough rifle... and then I bought a Savage 99, albeit in .308. That slick Savage made the 336 feel like a barn door...

I cut my teeth on a Winchester M94 .30-30.

But I had two Holy Grail rifles -- my Dad hunted in Ethiopia with a Savage 99 in .250-3000 and took literally hundreds of head of big game (he was in the bush for two years.) I also wanted a Winchester M95 in .30-06.

But over the years I learned. The .250-3000 is a compromise, and about half of them will not shoot the 100-grain bullet accurately. The M95 isn't really up to the .30-06 and many originals have excessive headspace.

Then I found an M99 in .308 Winchester -- it's like having both those Holy Grail rifles in one package! Thirty ought six power in the slickest lever action going.

 

[rabid wombat]

A Marlin 30-30 was my first center fire rifle. Immediately put a Leupold 4x on it. Best 3 shot group was ~3/4 inches at 100 yards with Leverevolution…

still have the rifle….

 

[Hugger-4641]

I've been taking deer every year with this one since I bought it new, circa 1983. Worked on a dairy farm and hauled hay to pay for it. I bought the scope the following summer and they've never been apart other than routine maintenance. It is the Angle Eject model 94.
I hunt with many other rifles now, but still take at least one deer every year with this one. It is the epitome of what most of my early peers didn’t like: lever action, top eject, scope, and see thru rings.
Nobody else whose ever shot it can hit squat with it,
But this is what it does for me with 160ftx's. 100yds, from bags, and thats a three shot group.

 

[Offfhand]

It's hard to not love a lever action .30/30, like this "Deer Grade" M-64 Winchester.

 

[hdbiker]

I have two, a Marlin 30AS lever action, and a Springfield 840 mag fed bolt action. Both are mint and shoot very good, I'd give the accuracy edge to the Springfield (but not by much)