The perfect rifle: The 30-30

[Hugger-4641]

A for certain deer slayer at least for under 200 yards…

The old 30-30 is capable of much more than 200yds, but most shooters aren't.
At 200yds or less, there's not much work or thinking to do.
But past 200yds you have to be able to range a target accurately and KNOW what your rifle will do at that range. Not saying I could do it every single time, but I've taken multiple deer over the years at 200+ and a couple at 300+ with that old 94 and Bushnell Lite Site

 

[hawg]

Howdy

Many, many years ago I found my first centerfire rifle, an old 30-30 Winchester Model 1894, for sale on the side of the road in upstate New York.

Looking back on it, it was an unusual rifle. The barrel had been cut down to carbine length, 20" if I recall correctly, and the magazine had been cut down to half length, but it had the old rifle style curved crescent shaped butt plate, not the flatter 'shotgun style' butt plate one usually sees on carbines. Being cut down, with the half length magazine, it was very light. Also, I did not know back then the proper way to shoot a rifle with a crescent shaped butt stock. I could only stand to fire about three shots out of it, because the sharp points of the crescent shaped butt stock would dig into the fleshy part of my shoulder and it hurt like heck. After three shots I was flinching so much I could not shoot it any more.

That sounds like a short rifle.

I used to be one of those people who thought scoping a lever gun was anathema. But then I started aging and my eyesight wasn't what it was when I was young and dumb. Now I'm of the opinion that modifying a firearm to keep it shooting is the only wise choice.

I'm 65 and diabetic so my eyesight changes almost every day. There are other options than a scope. I like full buckhorns where the tips of the horns almost touch. Or a tang mounted peep. I use the buckhorns as a ghost ring.

 

[valnar]

OK devil's advocate here.

The .30-30 is a lot like the .30-40 Krag. It falls between a future intermediate cartridge and a fully modern rifle caliber. The major difference between the .30-30 and the Krag, and well the 7.62x39 or anything relatively close to it, is the fact Western lever guns are just so darn sexy. Honestly, it's just that. If it weren't for the appeal of the actual guns that shoot that cartridge, it would have become obsolete. I mean, c'mon, in no other rifle would we put up with a non-spitzer bullet.

I had a Marlin 336 years ago but sold it.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a Remington 788 bolt action .30 WCF. I expected great things out of it but the magazine length demands a spitzer bullet be seated deep and the tight throat will not take the Groove Diameter + .002" cast bullet that usually gives best shooting.
It is more accurate than most lever actions with conventional .30-30s, though; and easy to scope.

 

[hawg]

OK devil's advocate here.
I mean, c'mon, in no other rifle would we put up with a non-spitzer bullet.

Ummm, I've used a lot of round nosed bullets in a 30-06 over the years.

 

[Choctaw]

That sounds like a short rifle.




I'm 65 and diabetic so my eyesight changes almost every day. There are other options than a scope. I like full buckhorns where the tips of the horns almost touch. Or a tang mounted peep. I use the buckhorns as a ghost ring.

Not for everyone. I had radial keratotomy on both eyes in 1986. I had great vision until I hit my 40s. Now my vision fluctuates every day to such a degree I can't get a prescription and instead rely on five readers as my eyes go through their change throughout the day. None of my levers have scopes and most have Marbles. Sometimes my vision is okay with this and other times not. I also have irons on all of my ARs but they also have some form of optic which helps tremendously. To each his own.

 

[hawg]

Not for everyone. I had radial keratotomy on both eyes in 1986.

Have you checked into having it corrected?

 

[joed]

I have 3 lever actions in my safe. There is a Win 94 in .30-30, a Marlin 336C in .35 Rem and a Win 9422. I don't shoot any of them often. It isn't that I don't like them but they are a type of gun that I would carry on an ATV or a horse. Where I live it's varmint hunting and I have other rifles that I use for that.

Would I ever sell any of these lever guns? Probably not, they have a place in my shooting even though they are not used often. But over my many years of shooting and hunting I've learned that you can't just use one gun for everything.

 

[plainsdrifter]

I cut my teeth on a Winchester M94 .30-30.

But I had two Holy Grail rifles -- my Dad hunted in Ethiopia with a Savage 99 in .250-3000 and took literally hundreds of head of big game (he was in the bush for two years.) I also wanted a Winchester M95 in .30-06.

But over the years I learned. The .250-3000 is a compromise, and about half of them will not shoot the 100-grain bullet accurately. The M95 isn't really up to the .30-06 and many originals have excessive headspace.

Then I found an M99 in .308 Winchester -- it's like having both those Holy Grail rifles in one package! Thirty ought six power in the slickest lever action going.

Haven't checked the headspace on this special edition in ought six but I'm gonna grab the first one I see in .405 to actually shoot. I should just prolly order a plain jane '85 in .405 and be done with it.

 

[.308 Norma]

Western lever guns are just so darn sexy.

I mean, c'mon, in no other rifle would we put up with a non-spitzer bullet.

Sorry, I kind of agree with you, but I'm one of those guys that happens to think round nosed and flat nosed bullets are "darn sexy" looking too - just like the lever action guns they're used in.
As a matter of fact, I'm going to run across a nice lever action .38-55 Winchester one of these days, and when I do, I'm going to buy it - mostly because I like the looks of the .38-55 Winchester cartridge. Not because I think it will perform any better than about a hundred different modern-day cartridges will perform.

 

[jmr40]

I've owned a bunch of 30-30 lever actions over the years. They are cool to own but I've sold all of mine but 2. Prices have been crazy the last few years and I sold about a dozen of mine for $500-$2500 each. Even though I paid $150-$500 for them. I still have a 1958 Marlin and a 1958 Winchester. That just happens to be the year I was born.

But truthfully the 30-30 and model 94 had been obsolete for 5 years before the 1st one was ever sold. Yes, it does everything that is said about it. But there were cartridges and rifles that did all the same things better that came out several years before 30-30. It was actually a step backwards in rifle and cartridge development. Good enough but overrated.

 

[troy fairweather]

The perfect 30-30 is a 35 rem

 

[Charlie98]

The perfect 30-30 is a... 348WCF

There... fixed that for you...

 

[plainsdrifter]

I've owned a bunch of 30-30 lever actions over the years. They are cool to own but I've sold all of mine but 2. Prices have been crazy the last few years and I sold about a dozen of mine for $500-$2500 each. Even though I paid $150-$500 for them. I still have a 1958 Marlin and a 1958 Winchester. That just happens to be the year I was born.

But truthfully the 30-30 and model 94 had been obsolete for 5 years before the 1st one was ever sold. Yes, it does everything that is said about it. But there were cartridges and rifles that did all the same things better that came out several years before 30-30. It was actually a step backwards in rifle and cartridge development. Good enough but overrated.

Overrated and prolly taken more game than any other cartridge cept maybe an 06

 

[Southmountain]

We have three lever actions: an antique Winchester 1892 in 38WCF, a 1950 Marlin in 30-30, and a modern Rossi R92 in 44mag/spl.

Sentimentally the Model 1892 is a favorite because my wife inherited it, but it’s a safe queen and functionally the Marlin 30-30 is my go-to for most outdoor situations.

I do wonder if the 44 mag/spl is more versatile as a knock-around gun for all purposes. On one end, for home defense using 44 spl probably more appropriate than 30-30. Plinking cheaper as well. And on the other end, 44 mag is minimum for black bear although 30-30 works too.

However, there is no sentimental value to modern lever actions in non-historic pistol chamberings like 44. If the stock cracked or metal dinged from hard use, all good. But I do make sure the Marlin 30-30 is properly maintained and cared for.

 

[Roverguy]

Before folks launch into me, let me explain my opinion and position. I am aware of all the "run faster, jump higher, fly higher, go further, fragmenting, & wall penetrating" calibers out there. But there is something about a 30-30 made by any brand rifle manufacturer.

I started shooting/hunting with a rifle (a 1968 Marlin 336-RC lever action) when I was 12 years old (41 years ago). My parents had bought the rifle used for $40. An old friend of the family was a gunsmith and reloader. I learned to reload most all calibers but in particular the 30-30. If I had to speculate, I have shot maybe 5,000 + rounds through the old gal. She is well cared for and attended to & still shoots perfectly accurate.

Until recent years, I was perfectly happy reloading and shooting the Remington corelokt, Hornady or any other manufacturer's 150 or 170 grain bullets. Then Hornady came out with the 160 grain "Gummy tipped" Leverolution cartridge. I did not purchase this cartridge because for my hunting and shooting purposes the older bullets worked just fine and I am a cheapie.
[DISCLAIMER: I am not associated with Hornady or any other manufacturer of bullets for reloading. These comments are related only from my own experiences.]

Later, Hornady released the 160 grain stand alone Gummy tipped bullet for reloading your own cartridges. I acquired some of the said gummy tips and experimented. As others have found, this bullet (Properly loaded) shoots very accurately and extends the range of the old 30-30. However, I still load other manufacturer's bullets.
[ DISCLAIMER: I choose not to advertise my reload recipe. Instead, I encourage everyone learning to reload to work up your own safe loads. It makes you a better and more knowledgeable reloader.]

Now we/they have created the perfect rifle for my purposes. Folks talk about a truck/atv/utv/knock-around gun. A 30-30 suits this niche perfectly. It is short, relatively light, very handy and has great accuracy Considering it's 150-200 yard range. Although there are other great truck guns, etc., there are none that fill this purpose better than the 30-30. Its also great for home protection. Winchester, Marlin, or any other brand will do just fine.

As a matter of fact, the 30-30 is my UTV rifle. I just killed a hog with it yesterday while perusing the hunting property checking hunting stands/blinds. With 41 years of Alabama's historically liberal deer bag limit and extensively long seasons, I have literally lost count of the number of deer taken with the old 30-30. My son and Grandson learned to shoot and hunt with this 30-30. Now grown, they each have their own 30-30 in their collections.

As a parting shot, yes I have other calibers, bolt action and other shoot-um up powerful, long range rifles. However, for our part of the country (Alabama), there is simply none better that the OLD 30-30. It is the Perfect Rifle for anyone's use within the 30-30's range and capability. Know your game and your own capabilities but EVERYONE needs a 30-30!!!

With kind regards, enough of my rambling,
Danaidh

Excellent ramble! I’m with you. The 30-30 in a handy rifle with good iron sights, ie not the factory buckhorns, is a great 200 yard rifle. And those of us who grew up with the round and the rifles know that well. But, the AR15 is the handy rifle for younger generations and while I am not much of a fan of 223/556, it will do what the 30-30 does and do it past 200 yards. That’s my theory on why the 30-30 doesn’t enjoy the ubiquity now that it did when I was young.

I’m still a fan of the 30-30 and enjoy it in both levergun format and in a Savage 340, which is another handy rifle.

 

[AJC1]

OK devil's advocate here.

The .30-30 is a lot like the .30-40 Krag. It falls between a future intermediate cartridge and a fully modern rifle caliber. The major difference between the .30-30 and the Krag, and well the 7.62x39 or anything relatively close to it, is the fact Western lever guns are just so darn sexy. Honestly, it's just that. If it weren't for the appeal of the actual guns that shoot that cartridge, it would have become obsolete. I mean, c'mon, in no other rifle would we put up with a non-spitzer bullet.

I had a Marlin 336 years ago but sold it.

The savage 99 or the browning would still work. The neck is so long and functional. In a bolt gun it would be a lot of fun. All three will run your Spitzer design or load one and have one in the tube. Who needs more than two for deer.

 

[Kevinq6]

It's hard to get a more nostalgic rifle for deer than a nice lever-action 30-30 I think. My brother and I shot our first deer with my great grandpa's lever-action and I suspect my nephews may as well.

 

[M65Man]

I'm a dedicated 30-30 man since 1981, got my first Marlin 336 made in 1977, still have it, it's killed most my deer, I also have a Mod 94 carbine and Mod 64, the 64 my favorite! I did excellent for years with either Rem CL or Win PP, never needed anything else. Then the ammo crisis, couldn't get either. I've since tried others, and I've just recently tried the Hornady 160FTX, and now I'm sold on them! In my 64 I'm getting 2,425fps and with this bullet, the 30-30 is right at a 300 Savage's performance!
All 3 my rifles shoot this bullet well, and in my Mod 94 I get 2,355fps, aprox same in my Marlin.
But I hunted a 30-30 before, with factory ammo, did just fine. Now I load all three with LVR and several other bullets also, and I've done plenty experimenting with 30-30 loads, and LVR Powder is all I want and need!
This was a recent 5 shot group, Williams receiver sight.

 

[27hand]

I bought a very slightly used Marlin 336 when my son was getting near the age of becoming a hunter.

He moved away when he got married and no longer hunts.

At one time, I bought a few hundred Speer Deep Curls from RMR bullets and have been using those on a regular basis.
The loads that Speer published for this bullet were piwders I didn't have so resorted to IMR4350.

Fairly accurate but slow at around 1800fps.
I only shot one deer with it. She didn't mind that the bullet took a while to get there.
I recently took a new interest in lever guns with a Henry in.44 but it also piqued my interest in the Marlin.

I found some Varget and worked a new load for the Marlin.

https://flic.kr/p/2nEGWNy

This load increased the velocity to about 2200 and is my new 30-30 load.
I haven't tried the gummy tipped ones yet.

I.like this rifle and a 3/4" group is just fine.

 

[M65Man]

There... fixed that for you...

Like I said, I'm a big 30-30 believer! But a 35 Rem and especially a Mod 71 in 348, I do wish I had!

 

[DMW1116]

“LVR powder is all I want and need”

That sounds like me until the 15th round of load testing full power loads under 150 and 160 grain bullets. Then I want some thing different. Admittedly my recoil tolerance increases inversely to group size and those full power loads didn’t do much better than 3”@100.

I think the 30-30 and associated lever actions suffer from being viewed as hunting rifles only. They are type cast if you will like Mark Hammel and Luke Skywalker. The real fun of a 30-30 only shows up with the delivery of a reloading press. They’ll shoot everything from buckshot to 190 grain wrecking balls.

 

[AJC1]

“LVR powder is all I want and need”

That sounds like me until the 15th round of load testing full power loads under 150 and 160 grain bullets. Then I want some thing different. Admittedly my recoil tolerance increases inversely to group size and those full power loads didn’t do much better than 3”@100.

I think the 30-30 and associated lever actions suffer from being viewed as hunting rifles only. They are type cast if you will like Mark Hammel and Luke Skywalker. The real fun of a 30-30 only shows up with the delivery of a reloading press. They’ll shoot everything from buckshot to 190 grain wrecking balls.

I wanted to shoot the 190 sub x but didn't want to buy bullets that wouldn't stabilize. I hear the have a liter version out for the dirty 30 now. Haven't seen them but I'm looking.

 

[DMW1116]

Oh, I was thinking of the Buffalo Bore offering in 190 grain.

 

[Paul R Zartman]

I had always wanted a old Winchester 3030 to hunt and bust around the woods with, but could never find one I could afford, didn't want a newer one. Then I found it, LGS had it on the wall and couldn't sell it it was so rough on the outside, it was a rust bucket, even the crown was pitted....150 out the door.
Long story short, cleaned it up inside and out, bore was good till the last 1/2 inch and crown, wood was real good, guts cleaned up good and are smooth for a 1937 transitional, shoots straight as I can shoot it out to 100 yards, I call it my RatRod Gun and its a keeper...