The weirdness that is gun people

[280PLUS]

OK, fine with all that BUT what does the average Joe have to do to be able to to purchase, own and operate full auto weapons?

 

[VirgilCaine]

An FFL, or Federal Firearms License, can be one of nine types. Type 1 is a Dealer in Firearms. Type 2 is a Pawnbroker. Type 3 is a Collector of Curio & Relics, or C&R. Type 6 is a Manufacturer of Ammunition For Firearms. Type 7 is a Manufacturer of Firearms. Type 8 is an Importer of Firearms. Type 9 is a Dealer in Destructive Devices. Type 10 is a Manufacturer of Destructive Devices. Type 11 is an Importer of Destructive Devices.

What are four and five?

 

[mustanger98]

Bump firing is when you basically hook your finger in the trigger guard and jerk or move the rifle back and forth to fire rapidly. Someone posted pictures recently showing a guy with his finger hooked in the trigger well with his thumb hooked in his pocket or belt. The recoil of the gun firing helped move the rifle back and forth actuating the trigger repeatedly with his hand remaining basically stationary.

I have milked the trigger before. I don't think that is the same thing.

Okay, we've both milked the trigger. But your description of bump firing is how to get the same motion going to do it on purpose.

 

[joab]

Many people think you get an actual card that you can now go buy Full Autos,

I did. Not an actual card but a license similar to my C&R certificate with a number associated with it that you gave to be able to purchase.

But then again I have no real interest in full auto guns

 

[Strings]

heh... I've met several real SEALs. 'Course, I was stationed on a troop ship, and we had a contingent aboard during WestPac. That's how I know the MP5 is gun sex...

Had a guy in "A" School that bought a Trident, and would wear it on his dress blues when home on leave. Couple of the guys that were BUDS bound found out about it, and "tacked" it for him...

 

[OEF_VET]

What are four and five?

And, that, my friend, is a good question. I don't know the answer.

 

[OEF_VET]

OK, fine with all that BUT what does the average Joe have to do to be able to to purchase, own and operate full auto weapons?

Here are the steps to go through in order to purchase, own, and operate a full-auto weapon:
1) Stay out of trouble with the law. This includes, but is not limited to, felonies, domestic abuse charges, drug conviction, and being adjudicated mentally defective.

2) Live in a state which allows the ownership of Title 2 firearms. If in doubt, ask BATFE.

3) Earn A LOT of disposable income. Even the least expensive fully transferable full-auto weapons are now priced over $3,000. You'll also want to budget a lot of money for ammo, as it can get expensive quickly. Also, you'll want to plan for any spare parts you'll need to keep it in operation.

4)Find the weapon you want to purchase. You can either buy from a private individual in your state, a Class 1 FFL / Class III SOT in your state, or someone in another state. If you buy from an out-of-stater, you'll have to go through some additional legal steps.

5)a) If the weapon is in your state, you pay the owner and do some paperwork. The paperwork consists of two copies each of an ATF Form 4 (Transfer of an NFA Weapon), fingerprint cards, and Certification of Compliance (says you state that you are a U.S. citizen). Submit the Form 4 to your local CLEO for their signature.

5)b) If the weapon is coming from out of state, it must be first transferred to a Class 1 FFL/Class III SOT in your state. If it's coming from another C1FFL/CIIISOT, there is no tax paid on the transfer. If it is coming from another private individual, there is a $200 transfer tax which must be paid. After it arrives at your local FFL/SOT, you proceed as in 5a, above.

6) After you local CLEO signs off on it, provided they do (here in TN they are required to do so), you submit the six pieces of paper and a check or money order, in the amount of $200, to BATFE.

7) Now you wait while BATFE and the FBI do a fairly thorough background check on you. As long as you meet the legal requirements to own a handgun, and ownership of NFA weapons is legal in your state of residence, you shouldn't worry. It'll eventually get approved. It just takes time. They are bereaucrats, afterall.

8) Wait some more.

9) No, your waiting isn't over, not yet.

10) Finally, BATFE has approved your transfer. They will mail a copy of your Form 4 back to the transferror (either the person you are buying the weapon from or the FFL/SOT). This copy will actually have a stamp on it which looks like a large postage stamp. You have to keep this copy secure. You do not want to lose it. Make copies and put the original in a gun safe or a bank safety deposit box.

11) Take your new toy to the range, provided your local range allows firing of full-auto weapons, and enjoy. Remember to bring a lot of ammo, because you will go through it.

12) Do not take your machinegun across state lines without first notifying BATFE on the proper form. Doing so could get you in deep trouble.

13) Keep your weapon in a safe place, where you are the only one who has access to it. This can be as simple as having a safe to which no one else has the combo or key.

14) Stay out of trouble with the law.

15) Ignore this part. I made an error, which was corrected by another member.

16) Enjoy your new toy as often as possible.

17) Pass on the proper information about the NFA and responsible ownership of NFA weapons, in order to help dispel the abundance of misinformation out there.

Of course, if you want to throw a few changes into the mix, you can buy one as a corporation, rather than as a private individual. This changes things like the Certificate of Compliance, storage, who's allowed to take it to the range, and inheiritence. (CEO signs CoC for each corp. officer, corp. officers are allowed access to storage and may take it to the range, corp. stays afloat after death, so any new corp. officers must pass background checks.)

 

[AmYisraelChai]

15) When you do own any NFA weapons, be cognizant of your will. If you die and don't have them listed, by serial number, in your will, BATFE will take them. If they are bequethed, by serial number, your heirs can take possession of them, provided they are able to pass the requisite background check. Since they are an inheiritence, your heirs will not be required to pay the $200 transfer tax. It is a tax-exempt transfer.

First, your post was well put. You may also form a corporation to own the firearms and avoid having to get the CLEO to sign. (this is one way to get around it if he wont) It is not a complicated process. It costs a lot of money and takes a fair amount of time. It is just a bunch of hoops, that is all. If you live somewhere it is legal, and you qualify, you can own a machine gun.

As to this, It is not true that you have to list these weapons in your will. If you die, with or without a will, and you owned Class III weapons, whoever is the executer of your will, or estate may have possesion of any NFA items you owned. It really is that simple. When the Heir to said weapons is identified, They file a Form 5 (Tax free transfer) with ATF, you do not need a CLEO to sign. And that is that. (assuming they can own the weapon)

 

[OEF_VET]

AYC,

Thanks for the compliment and the correction. You are right, as I just verified on the ATF website. The NFA weapons need not be listed in a will. I personally think it is a good idea, so that you can ensure they go to a person best suited to own them. (Wouldn't want a dyed-in-the-wool anti getting their hands on them, only to melt them into so much scrap metal.)

The corporation is a great way to avoid NFA-unfriendly CLEO's. Unfortunately, it means keeping that corporation alive, and all that that might entail, for as long as you choose to keep the NFA weapon registered to the corporation. Upon dissolution of the corp., the NFA weapon must be tranferred, sold, or turned over to ATF. Obviously, the last choice is not the best choice. Luckily, here in TN, the CLEO is required by law to sign off on NFA tranfers, unless the transferee is barred from owning a weapon to begin with (felon, etc.).

 

[bogie]

Yeah, I've been thinking of going Class II SOT - More so I can have a can in Missouri than for anything else... Plus, hey, it'd be some spending money for a little lathe work...

 

[280PLUS]

Thanks OEF!

I appreciate the time you took to post that all for me (and others) Looks like the first thing I'll have to work on is that "disposable income" snag. I recently disposed of all mine into a new septic system.

But some day I may have some again!

 

[VirgilCaine]

And, that, my friend, is a good question. I don't know the answer.

Wow, considering you seem to know a whole lot about NF--erm, Title II items, that seems to say something.

 

[rangermonroe]

When you milk a trigger, do you get cosmoline?

 

[AmYisraelChai]

FFL type 04 and 05 are "reserved" just being held for a future use. I dont know what that would be "Dealer of beam weapons?"

 

[rchernandez]

OK, fine with all that BUT what does the average Joe have to do to be able to to purchase, own and operate full auto weapons?

A lot of money...?

 

[OEF_VET]

Wow, considering you seem to know a whole lot about NF--erm, Title II items, that seems to say something.

I definitly don't know everything, that's for sure, and I'm more than willing to admit when I don't know the answer.

The reasons I know what I do about NFA is 1) I currently own one suppressor, with another one and an AOW awaiting approval of the Form 4's, and 2) I work part-time doing sales at local gunshows for a small, local suppressor manufacturer (same company who built both of my cans and my AOW).

Pretty much everything I posted above is readily available on the ATF website (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/index.htm).

 

[Strings]

>When you milk a trigger, do you get cosmoline?<

If I milk my trigger, and Cosomoline drops out, that particular gun is getting destroyed!

 

[chas_martel]

Thank you OEF_VET,

I've seen this topic posted over and over and over ad nauseum thru
the years. I cringe every time someone talks about getting
a MG license and buying Class 3 weapons. (Like Clips vs Mags)

You gave a very good treatsie on the topic.

I nominate we put your responses into a sticky, or perhaps at
AllYouWantToKnowAboutFFLsAndNFAstuff.com, that way
we can just tell people where to go to get educated on the topic.

PS: For anyone that cares, transfer times do seem to be shorter
than in the past.

 

[adaman04]

Wow, that was really long. But, I didn't notice until I read the whole thing! Good write-up and you are right on the money. When I lie (about what I got my lady for Christmas or Birthday, or where we are going for dinner, not guns) I give myself away no doubt about it. I can even tell and its embarassing. The difference between lying about flowers and Desert Eagles is a big one. A lot of "uh" and "umm" between words pretty well tells me you are full of **** and never had any of the firearms you mention.

I know a guy who knows quite a bit about S&W revolvers, and NOTHING about other guns, hunting, etc. He always makes up stories about stuff and I can tell right away he is lying. For example, one day I was talking about my .17 HMR and he said "Yeah, I never shoulda sold mine. I wasn't too impressed with it though." Then about a month later I saw him and in a pocket full of change, I had a Hummer round. He saw it and said "Yeah I been thinking about getting me one of those some day. Never had one. Are they nice?" :banghead:

When I was a kid I was a pretty good fibber. Actually, I was a compulsive liar. You know, like kids are. My Dad said "Son, there's nothing worse than a liar. Because, their word doesn't count for anything." One of the many lessons he has taught me, and definitely an important one.

*End of excessively long reply*

 

[AmYisraelChai]

PS: For anyone that cares, transfer times do seem to be shorter
than in the past.

I have noticed that as well. most of the Transfers we have done in the last year seemed to have a fair turn around time.

 

[MinMAN]

I try to ignore, and not agonize when possible, and try and focus on the relaxation the sport provides us. Easier said than done for a range officer. Lots of weird things can and do happen.

 

[OEF_VET]

PS: For anyone that cares, transfer times do seem to be shorter
than in the past.

Yeah, but when your Form 4 makes it to WV before the Form 2 for the suppressor, the wait doesn't seem too short. (Trust me, I know this from experience. Apparently, I was quick enough getting the Form 4 in to BATFE that the Form 2 hadn't even gone pending yet. The Form 2 finally went pending on 24 JAN. My check cleared the bank at least two weeks prior. No telling how long it'll take until my Form 4 goes pending.)

 

[depicts]

AmYisraelChai, a few questions please!

Why did you give him the ammo free? Did you think he was telling the truth that he was only a cook, or was it like the Stephan Seagal line...."I'm just a cook, a lowly cook"

Maybe he was an Intuit Native American and he was a seal cook!!! *S*

 

[Bart Noir]

7.65 Minigun is NOT from GE.....

Not anymore, since the design and rights were sold to Dillon Precision, the company that builds cartridge reloading presses and supplies. There is a branch of the company that rebuilds / fixes them and maybe makes new ones. I think they actually improved them and continue to make sales to both US and other military units. [see recent thread about miniguns defending the scientists]

Bart Noir

 

[VirgilCaine]

FFL type 04 and 05 are "reserved" just being held for a future use. I dont know what that would be "Dealer of beam weapons?"

Maybe. Gauss rifles?