mpd61
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TAG!!! 22 Nosler!
Time to sell all your 6.5 creedmoors
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To me the latest and greatest are good for new shooters.
Why not get every advantage that is available? If you have been shooting for a while and have 6.5x55 or a 260, then a 6.5 cm doesn't make sense.
I remember reading about the latest great cartridges and projectiles as a kid and my dad telling me they weren't necessary. Now I feel the same way, but I still love to play with new things.
Why not get every advantage that is available? If you have been shooting for a while and have 6.5x55 or a 260, then a 6.5 cm doesn't make sense.
I remember reading about the latest great cartridges and projectiles as a kid and my dad telling me they weren't necessary. Now I feel the same way, but I still love to play with new things.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Well said. If I didn't have a .260 Rem, I would no doubt buy or build a 6.5 Creedmoor. I just built a .260 AI, so have no (immediate) interest in the 6.5 PRC. For a new shooter, though, the new 6.5s make a lot of sense.
One bud of mine, at Camp Perry we were talking about his brass. It was small primer, could have been 7mm-08, could have been small primer 308. When small primer brass in his caliber disappeared, he was desperate. The stuff he was shooting at the Nationals had been loaded at least 20 times before he got it. And he was grateful for what he got. He was also shooting it and not having any issues, which turned out to be the topic of discussion. But anyway, Don't count on anything being in stock forever and always. Anyone remember the Clinton primer scare, that lasted a year, maybe two? Anyone remember the Obama scare, that lasted eight years. Could not find 22 lr, could not find much of anything. When brass appeared, and someone told us here, it was gone when I checked. The stuff went out of stock the same day.
Varminterror
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What else would we be doing on Internet forums at all, if not wasting time?
Varminterror
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I do agree with @Slamfire on the brass availability impact on target rifles.
I don’t worry about brass availability for my hunting rifles - that’s it. For my odd-ball hunting cartridges, I buy a few hundred, maybe 500-600 tops for magnums, and live happy.
How much brass I need for target rifles is variable. Brass doesn’t last forever, especially when you’re pushing loads HARD for long range competition - and some matches may be very high volumes of fire. There are 300rnd matches out there, plus any zeroing and chrono check ammo you produce in preparation. Losing a piece here or there at a match, or getting partial batches out of sequence does happen. I’ve absolutely struggled to keep up this season having only 300rnds of 6 Creed in play, and had to buy a new batch to prep for a 200rnd match in 2wks.
When I was shooting a 6XC, I dang sure didn’t want to run out of brass during a season. Prep was just too much to wanna do it more than once per winter.
So brass availability still does matter, even for target shooting. Probably more so, really, because we use our brass a lot more than the average hunter.
I don’t worry about brass availability for my hunting rifles - that’s it. For my odd-ball hunting cartridges, I buy a few hundred, maybe 500-600 tops for magnums, and live happy.
How much brass I need for target rifles is variable. Brass doesn’t last forever, especially when you’re pushing loads HARD for long range competition - and some matches may be very high volumes of fire. There are 300rnd matches out there, plus any zeroing and chrono check ammo you produce in preparation. Losing a piece here or there at a match, or getting partial batches out of sequence does happen. I’ve absolutely struggled to keep up this season having only 300rnds of 6 Creed in play, and had to buy a new batch to prep for a 200rnd match in 2wks.
When I was shooting a 6XC, I dang sure didn’t want to run out of brass during a season. Prep was just too much to wanna do it more than once per winter.
So brass availability still does matter, even for target shooting. Probably more so, really, because we use our brass a lot more than the average hunter.
CoalTrain49
Member
I was wondering what the dia. of the 10 ring was on a 1000 yard target. Thanks for posting that. Probably not too many people doing 1 moa at 1000 yards with wind and all those other pesky distractions. I have a hard enough time just holding 1 moa at 200, but my eyes are old.
As far as brass, I don't buy it. If I can't pick it up it isn't a cartridge I want too shoot. If you shoot 2500 rounds a year it can get expensive. I'm retired.
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cdb1
Member
That’s what I tell people who tell me I MUST have a 6.5 Creedmoor. And they don’t believe me when I say I can push bullets faster in my 6.5x55.
These are pretty much the same people who trumpet:
Vortex makes the best scope in the world
9mm is a mouse gun and real pistols start at .40
Denial is a river in Africa
cougar1717
Member
When 6.5CM passes the walmart test (it has btw), you know a significant number of rifles have been sold.
The firearms market always has that unique combination of innovation, propaganda, and sales figures. Like anybody else, manufacturers desire to sell high markup items. Product lines have their cycles. They get old and need to be refreshed. A new rifle in a heavily promoted caliber? - check. Premium ammo in that hot caliber? - check. A spokesperson to attest that this is the best ever? - check. Manufacturers always want someone to have a reason to purchase another firearm, new ammo, or components no matter how minute that performance difference may be.
New rifle calibers, precision rifle matches, and the current long range fad have given life to the (I'm using this loosely now) "hunting rifle" sector that has been stagnant for years. Maybe now it's dressed up with picatinny rails, a polymer stock or chassis and has "tactical," "precision," "stealth," or some specific name other than some letters and numbers - it doesn't matter, it made the sale. Maybe the person buying it can't shoot it to the equipment's full potential. Maybe 80% of the "long range rifles" sold are never used past 400 yards. Maybe the barrels chambered in long, skinny bullet calibers do have a shorter maximum life than 30 caliber. Maybe these specialty long range hunting bullets/cartridges aren't ideal at all when "Cody" ("Bubba" is too old and too busy butchering Mausers - haha) shoots his deer at whopping 40 yards this fall.
I hate to put it in this light, but I doubt the manufacturers cared about any of those maybe statements as long as people bought new guns and new ammo.
It really is a buyer beware market in terms of rifle calibers. Being an early adopter and chasing the hot caliber can bite some consumers. As we know, calibers aren't usually gone for good, but they can get really expensive. We have seen some WSSM's, RCM's, and specialty AR cartridges become incredibly hard to find or at a cost that is just prohibitive. I can still remember hearing the salesman's spiel about the 325 WSM being the best ever.
There have been advances in bullet technology, coatings for powder technology, stagnant primer technology (environmental, I suppose), but I feel that manufacturers are literally "throwing designs out and seeing what sticks" when it comes to brass. At the end of the day, it's easier to promote and sell something new than it is to excite people about a legacy caliber or product. On top of that, they do not necessarily cater to the performance minded or analytical minds of most THR'ers. Manufacturers want "Cody" and others to think they can live the dream of having the kinds of rifle skills portrayed in video games if they just purchase the right products.
The firearms market always has that unique combination of innovation, propaganda, and sales figures. Like anybody else, manufacturers desire to sell high markup items. Product lines have their cycles. They get old and need to be refreshed. A new rifle in a heavily promoted caliber? - check. Premium ammo in that hot caliber? - check. A spokesperson to attest that this is the best ever? - check. Manufacturers always want someone to have a reason to purchase another firearm, new ammo, or components no matter how minute that performance difference may be.
New rifle calibers, precision rifle matches, and the current long range fad have given life to the (I'm using this loosely now) "hunting rifle" sector that has been stagnant for years. Maybe now it's dressed up with picatinny rails, a polymer stock or chassis and has "tactical," "precision," "stealth," or some specific name other than some letters and numbers - it doesn't matter, it made the sale. Maybe the person buying it can't shoot it to the equipment's full potential. Maybe 80% of the "long range rifles" sold are never used past 400 yards. Maybe the barrels chambered in long, skinny bullet calibers do have a shorter maximum life than 30 caliber. Maybe these specialty long range hunting bullets/cartridges aren't ideal at all when "Cody" ("Bubba" is too old and too busy butchering Mausers - haha) shoots his deer at whopping 40 yards this fall.
I hate to put it in this light, but I doubt the manufacturers cared about any of those maybe statements as long as people bought new guns and new ammo.
It really is a buyer beware market in terms of rifle calibers. Being an early adopter and chasing the hot caliber can bite some consumers. As we know, calibers aren't usually gone for good, but they can get really expensive. We have seen some WSSM's, RCM's, and specialty AR cartridges become incredibly hard to find or at a cost that is just prohibitive. I can still remember hearing the salesman's spiel about the 325 WSM being the best ever.
There have been advances in bullet technology, coatings for powder technology, stagnant primer technology (environmental, I suppose), but I feel that manufacturers are literally "throwing designs out and seeing what sticks" when it comes to brass. At the end of the day, it's easier to promote and sell something new than it is to excite people about a legacy caliber or product. On top of that, they do not necessarily cater to the performance minded or analytical minds of most THR'ers. Manufacturers want "Cody" and others to think they can live the dream of having the kinds of rifle skills portrayed in video games if they just purchase the right products.
js8588
Member
Some of you lamented in the Elk Season 264 thread going right now that the 264 Win Mag would be terrific if not for the 1:9 twist (I agree with you...actually, I think the 264 Win Mag is pretty nifty regardless).
This is basically a 264 Win Mag in a short action with a 1:8 twist. That gives it some advantages over "tried & true" meat getters like the 270 Winchester, 7mm Rem Mag, & 30-06 like a shorter, lighter action. Some people feel short actions are more accurate. I'm sure they can be but...enough for most to notice? Probably not. Nevertheless, it's often touted.
It will drive a 140 grain as fast as a 270 will push a 130 grain pill & have a higher ballistic coefficient as well as better sectional density.
Unlike the Creedmoor, it actually has a measurable improvement over a 6.5x55 (or 260 Remington).
It should kick a good bit less than a 300 Win Mag but shoot every bit as flat without being borderline insane like the 26 Nosler & 6.5-300 Weatherby.
I don't KNOW if I'll get one, but it's interesting. Sauer is planning on offering a 100 rifle in the cartridge. That rifle is interesting (especially at the price point) too.
I get the raison d'etre for the 6.5 PRC. Does anyone NEED one? Of course not. They could definitely do a lot worse, though. It checks a lot of boxes.
This is basically a 264 Win Mag in a short action with a 1:8 twist. That gives it some advantages over "tried & true" meat getters like the 270 Winchester, 7mm Rem Mag, & 30-06 like a shorter, lighter action. Some people feel short actions are more accurate. I'm sure they can be but...enough for most to notice? Probably not. Nevertheless, it's often touted.
It will drive a 140 grain as fast as a 270 will push a 130 grain pill & have a higher ballistic coefficient as well as better sectional density.
Unlike the Creedmoor, it actually has a measurable improvement over a 6.5x55 (or 260 Remington).
It should kick a good bit less than a 300 Win Mag but shoot every bit as flat without being borderline insane like the 26 Nosler & 6.5-300 Weatherby.
I don't KNOW if I'll get one, but it's interesting. Sauer is planning on offering a 100 rifle in the cartridge. That rifle is interesting (especially at the price point) too.
I get the raison d'etre for the 6.5 PRC. Does anyone NEED one? Of course not. They could definitely do a lot worse, though. It checks a lot of boxes.
Llama Bob
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It looks to me like it's spotting a fair bit to the .264WM, 6.5WSM, and 6.5SAUM - 8 to 15 grains of case capacity. But AFAIK no one's worked up loads with serious hunting bullets so it's all a mystery right now.
The 1:8 twist is good, but right now I don't think I brings any new hunting bullets into play other than possibly the Accubond LR.
The 1:8 twist is good, but right now I don't think I brings any new hunting bullets into play other than possibly the Accubond LR.
cdb1
Member
Wrong thread.
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I don't really have a point here but just over a week ago I was shooting at a friend's range. He has thirteen life-sized animal steel targets from 220 yards out to 1,400 yards. I was shooting his Begara HMR chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. The only target that didn't yield and audible ding was the buffalo shown below at 1,400 yards (+14.6 mils of elevation). The next closest target is an elk at 810 yards and we could hear hits on that one. We were shooting 140gr ELD-X ammo and making hits was easy. The spotters told me that I hit two for two on the buffalo sort of center of mass but I could have missed for all I know. One thing is sure, I would never shoot a real buffalo at 1,400 yards using a 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 PRC.
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farmerboy78
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well damn, why do I have this 6.5-06 for then. sounds as though it's just a junk cartridge as of late. and now my creedmoor too? well, I don't think I'll get rid of either. I have easily made hits on 66%ipsc targets @ 1100yds in prs with the custom rpr 6.5 creedmoor. I use the 6.5-06 for my long range open field whitetail culling rifle. my longest harvest with it is 875yds with no problems in killing power while using a 140gr Berger hybrid @ 3015fps.
js8588
Member
I love a contrarian. I built a 6.5 Grendel AR15 just to spite a guy over on AK Files.
mpd61
Member
Cougar1717 and js8588 said it better than I ever could......
Got my two (2) 6.5x55's and happy with the cartridge. Got into 6.5 Grendel only cuz of my one AR upper chambered, thus, the CZ 527 in Grendel. IF the need ever arose in the future for me to need a longer range 6.5, then PRC would be ok by me, mainly because it's NOT a Creedmore.
Got my two (2) 6.5x55's and happy with the cartridge. Got into 6.5 Grendel only cuz of my one AR upper chambered, thus, the CZ 527 in Grendel. IF the need ever arose in the future for me to need a longer range 6.5, then PRC would be ok by me, mainly because it's NOT a Creedmore.
cdb1
Member
The 6.5 Creedmoor has been hyped so much I dislike it too.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
I read this with panic and have since calmed down a bunch. Easy fix. Place both rifles, brass, dies for sale for some sucker to buy. Order two new rifles chambered for the latest and greatest, plus brass, dies, and bragging rights. Can't wait til the next Gun Club meeting. Woo-hoo.
Varminterror
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At least shampoo and conditioner are materially different...
CoalTrain49
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I'm wondering why Hornady didn't have enough sense to call it the 6.5 PHRC (precision hunting rifle cartridge)?
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Doesn't have that cool acronym ring with the 4th letter lol.
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