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I read about half the article. It goes something like this:
  • Israel does some stuff that many (most) in the world find hard to justify. It gives some examples.
  • Israeli leaders (and former leaders) say some things in reference to Palestinians that are hard to justify. It gives some examples.
  • The US is really Israel's only friend in the world. I doubt many would argue with this.
  • Israel's actions over the past few decades in the name of "security," actually seem to have left Israel worse-off from a security perspective.
  • Israel is in a precarious position in the middle east.
There's not much there to argue with.

Then it seems to go on to argue that the US invasion of Iraq was done to make the Israelis safer. I stopped reading at this point, but I'm more inclined to believe the BBC's take on it.

I can agree that a lot of Americans have an "Israel right or wrong" stance, where you get situations where the Israelis will drop a 2000lb bomb on an apartment complex to kill some terrorist staying there for one night (and killing 19 children plus other civilians in the process) rather than send in a tactical team, and will then go and state publicly that they have no regrets about the loss of civilian life, and their backers here in the US have no problem with this at all. It doesn't make much sense to me (killing people you know are innocent is wrong, dammit!), but it exists.

However, to take that kind of support and project it to the degree that's being done here (we're going to spend a trillion dollars and thousands of US lives in order to make Israel safer -- at least as our primary goal) seems a real stretch.
 
Israel is a special situation, the holocaust does give them the right to tell every country in the world to go fk themselves, because those that didn't assist in the killing ignored it.

But their attitude isn't really doing them any good, although it's likely any other people in the same situation would act the same.

Also, they had a good relationship with South Africa... Again, they do what it takes, but in the long run it doesn't really help them, in my opinion. Though you have to survive the short run to enjoy the long run...
 
I will not respond directly to Ledhead686, but I will point out that the link he provided for me criticizes Israeli killings of high-level PLO terrorists, (in the Middle East, I might add, not in Europe) as opposed to my example that he requested of Palestinian terrorists killing outside the region. I will add that the Palestinian terrorists in Munich slaughtered innocent athletes whose only crime was being Israeli, as opposed to Israeli efforts to rid the Palestinians of the extremely militant senior members, something it apparently cannot do on it's own, despite worldwide pressure to do so.
 
No link between Saddam and terrorists?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/860ydczr.asp?pg=1

Another Link in the Chain
The role of Saddam and al Qaeda in the creation of Ansar al Islam.
by Stephen F. Hayes & Thomas Joscelyn
07/22/2005 9:00:00 AM

AS THE WAR with Saddam's Iraq approached, a small group of terrorists in Kurdish-controlled Iraq garnered a significant amount of news coverage. Senior-level Bush administration officials had claimed that this group, Ansar al Islam, represented a key link between Saddam's regime and al Qaeda. There was evidence, after all, that Saddam's intelligence operatives funded and supplied the al Qaeda terrorists who joined this group's ranks in the wake of the invasion of Afghanistan. That evidence was hotly contested for months until the story of Ansar al Islam gradually receded from the headlines. Today, the group is hardly even mentioned--if at all--in above-the-fold stories by the U.S. press.

Surprisingly, the European press tells a different story. Scanning press accounts from around Europe, the terrorist group most frequently named, besides al Qaeda, is Ansar al Islam.

In France, according to one press account, authorities "launched a preventive operation . . . targeting highly radical individuals who have visited Syria and Iraq on several occasions." This group was reportedly "in contact with the Ansar al Islam." According to the German press, Ansar al Islam is the "target of Germany-wide police action" and more than several individuals have been arrested for alleged ties to the group. The CIA is accused of abducting the influential Islamist imam, Abu Umar, in Italy and the press there says he is "thought to be a member of the terrorist network known as Ansar al-Islam." According to one account in the Spanish press, authorities there recently "disbanded a terror ring linked to the Ansar al-Islam."

For an organization established in late 2001 and described at that time as a small, motley collection of jihadists, Ansar al Islam seems today to have a vast, transnational network.

All of which raises two intriguing questions: How can we explain the reporting that describes a transformation of this regional terrorist group into an international terrorist superpower? And what more do we know about the Iraqi regime's role in its founding?

TO BE SURE, part of the disparity between the group's originally reported size and its current international stature lies in the reporting itself. It is often easier to think about and describe the vast Islamist terror network using a common banner. After all, these terror networks are comprised of a seemingly endless array of connections. Thus, what many European reporters and intelligence officials conflate into "Ansar al Islam" is, most likely, a much more complicated web of entities and individuals who would not think of themselves as belonging to a single Kurdish terrorist group.

Yet, by their shorthand references to this network as "Ansar al Islam," European investigators and the reporters who cover them convey an important fact: The terrorists in France, Germany, Italy, and Spain are all connected--in one way or another--to the same Iraqi-based network which spawned the Kurdish-based group just 10 days prior to September 11, 2001. Therein lies the controversy.

Many have argued, incorrectly, that the current Iraq-centric terrorist network suddenly appeared only after the U.S.-led invasion. That is, they argue that the jihadists established their complex system of safehouses, weapons caches, funding, training, and transportation only after the fall of Saddam.

For those analysts and politicians, particularly in the United States, who cling desperately to the notion that there was "no connection" between Iraq and al Qaeda, Ansar al Islam presents a problem. Typical of this was an article in the July 10, 2005, issue of Time magazine. Written by former Clinton administration counterterrorism official Daniel Benjamin, the article presumptuously declared "we know there was no pre-existing relationship between Baghdad and al-Qaeda."

The evidence, of course, suggests that this analysis is wrong. Even as naysayers in the States continue to deny any connection, such staunchly anti-Iraq War publications as Le Monde have long since conceded the point. One day before the Time article, on July 9, the French daily published a news story that declared Ansar al Islam "was founded in 2001 with the joint help of Saddam Hussein--who intended to use it against moderate Kurds--and al Qaeda, which hoped to find in Kurdistan a new location that would receive its members."

On this, at least, the French are right.

Two intercepts in 2002--one in May, the other in October--illuminated the Iraqi regime's role in Ansar al Islam. The first revealed that an Iraqi Intelligence officer praised the work of the terrorist group and passed $100,000 to its leaders. The second, described in a report from the National Security Agency, reported that the Iraqi regime and al Qaeda reached an agreement whereby the regime would provide safehaven in northern Iraq to al Qaeda terrorists fleeing Afghanistan. Also, the regime agreed to fund and to arm the incoming jihadists.

In addition, there are numerous firsthand reports of this collaboration that come from the men at the center of it. The first reporting on this came in March 2002 from the New Yorker's Jeffrey Goldberg. His work was followed by reports on PBS, ABC News's Nightline, THE WEEKLY STANDARD and the Christian Science Monitor. Some of the sources were the same; others corroborated the original reporting. Writing in the Christian Science Monitor under the headline "Iraqi Funds, Training Fuel Islamic Terror Group," Scott Petersen reported from northern Iraq:


While Ansar is gaining strength in numbers, new information is emerging that ties the organization to both Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network and to Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. The Al Qaeda contacts allegedly stretch back to 1989, and include regular recruiting visits by bin Laden cadres to Kurdish refugee camps in Iran and to northern Iraq, as well as a journey by senior Ansar leaders to meet Al Qaeda chiefs in Kandahar, Afghanistan, in the summer of 2000. A 20-year veteran of Iraqi intelligence alleges the Iraqi government secretly provided cash and training to Ansar.

Although the CIA showed little interest in investigating these reports, by February 5, 2003--when Colin Powell made his presentation to the U.N. Security Council--the intelligence community had collected enough information to include it in his remarks. He said:

But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization, Ansar al-Islam that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000 this agent offered Al Qaida safe haven in the region. After we swept Al Qaida from Afghanistan, some of its members accepted this safe haven. They remain there today.

The Iraqi Intelligence official Powell mentioned is a man named Abu Wael. Several detainees--some from Iraqi Intelligence, others from Ansar al Islam--have cited Abu Wael as a critical link between the former Iraqi regime and al Qaeda. But many mainstream journalists in the United States remained skeptical.

Hours after Powell's presentation, ABC's World News Tonight ran video of Powell's presentation and flashed a graphic on the screen that read, "Weak Link?" "There's no doubt Ansar al Islam is a radical Islamic terror group," said ABC investigative correspondent Brian Ross. "Their own videos show it. Their ties to al Qaeda are also well documented. But they operate in a part of Iraq not controlled by Saddam Hussein and their leaders say they seek to overthrow Saddam Hussein and his government."

The ABC report cut to an interview with Mullah Krekar, the spiritual and sometimes operational leader of Ansar al Islam, who declared the Iraqi leaders "are our enemy. Really, they are our enemy."

The most interesting information from the ABC interview was never aired. Krekar had explained to an ABC producer that the goal of Ansar al Islam was "to overthrow the Iraqi regime and replace it with an Islamic state." Krekar was then asked about Abu Wael, the man Bush administration officials believe was a senior Iraqi Intelligence official. "I know Abu Wael for 25 years," Krekar said. "And he is in Baghdad. And he is an Arabic member of our shura, our leadership council also."

That Krekar placed Abu Wael in Baghdad was almost certainly unintentional. If the goal of Ansar was to overthrow the regime, and if Abu Wael was on its leadership council, it is highly unlikely that he would be in Baghdad at a time when the Iraqi regime was on highest alert. The more plausible explanation is that Mullah Krekar slipped by admitting Abu Wael was in Baghdad and that Abu Wael was in Baghdad precisely because his employer--the Iraqi regime--wanted him there.

A detained Ansar al Islam terrorist named Rebwar Mohammed Abdul told a reporter from the Los Angeles Times that he had heard about Abu Wael directly from Mullah Krekar. Abdul denied any personal knowledge of a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda, but added an interesting detail. "I never talked to Wael but I saw him three times in meetings with Mullah Krekar. The mullah told us that Wael was a friend of his for 23 years and that they had met in Baghdad while Wael was an intelligence officer."

Consider the evidence. Abu Wael was in Baghdad six weeks before the Iraq War began. The spiritual leader of Ansar al Islam has apparently admitted that Abu Wael was an officer in Iraqi intelligence. Numerous individuals with firsthand knowledge of the Iraq-Ansar relationship have independently reported that Abu Wael works for both the Islamist group and Iraqi intelligence. And we have intercepts of Iraqi Intelligence officials offering support to Ansar al Islam.

Perhaps it was with this evidence in mind that Le Monde, in a separate article on June 27, 2005, wrote (without attribution) that Ansar al Islam "was founded in 2001 with the joint help of Saddam Hussein--who intended to use it against moderate Kurds--and Al-Qaeda, which hoped to find in Kurdistan a new location that would receive its members."

Stephen F. Hayes is a senior writer at The Weekly Standard and author of The Connection (HarperCollins). Thomas Joscelyn is an economist and writer living in New York.

****
1st, sorry for the long post, but I thought you'd all appreciate not having to use the link.

While I almost hate to jump into this... It just seems sooo obvious to me that Saddams goal was to eliminate the sanctions (apparently through "oil for food" program bribes, etc.), and re-start his WMD programs, that even according to the 9/11 panel were proved dormant at best. Once the sanctions were over, this madman and his sons would almost certainly use these weapons against us or others in the region.

If he couldn't deliver the weapons against us conventionally, do you really think he'd have a problem delivering them to other terrorist groups to use against us? The same guy who tried to assassinate a US President? Vowed to destroy Israel? Called for worldwide attacks at US interests and civilians around the world? Killed thousands of northern Iraqi Kurds with chemical weapons? Had mass graves filled with thousands of men, women and children? Rape rooms and torture chambers for political dissenters?

That's a chance I'm glad our President wasn't willing to take.
 
One of the parts you highlighted:

Ansar al Islam "was founded in 2001 with the joint help of Saddam Hussein--who intended to use it against moderate Kurds--and Al-Qaeda, which hoped to find in Kurdistan a new location that would receive its members."

Does it bother you that the evidence you provide says that Al-Qaeda was an enemy of Hussein?
 
entropy --

Which "high-level PLO terrorists" are you referring to? The 1948 "targeted killing" (read, assassination) of U.N. envoy Conte Folke Bernadotte? The 1946 attack on the British Military Command and the govt. secretariat? Or maybe the botched assassination of an Algerian national, instead of the Mossad's Palestinian target? And why is every -- and I mean every -- Palestinian leader labeled a "terrorist?"

scout26 --

Maybe you could tell me how this went from "Bush lied, kids died" to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"...

Allow me to clue you in on something: Anti-Zionism and anti-semitism are not one and the same. Because I believe Israel and it's all-powerful lobby, AIPAC, exert an inordinate amount of control over US foreign policy does not make me anti-semitic...it make me anti-Israeli. Typical though, of someone without anything to bring to the table to start in with the slurs. You're not worth the effort.
 
Which "high-level PLO terrorists" are you referring to?

These, from your link: Hamas political leader Ismail Abu Shanab ,Ghassan Kanafani,a leading figure of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), three other resistance group leaders Youssef el-Nagar, Kamal Odwan and Kamal Naser.
Fatah official Mohamed Bodia ,Mahmoud Al-Hamshari,Force 17 commander Abu Hassan Salama ,leader of Palestinian Liberation Organization Khalil Al-Wazir Abu Jihad , leader of the Lebanese resistance party Hezbollah Abbas el-Moussawi .

Sense a pattern here? All high-ranking terrorist organization officials.

Yes, The Mossad has done many things counterproductive to the security of Israel; One must remember however, that the goal of the organizations these people represented is at a minimum the elimination of Israel, and for some of them it is the complete genocide of Jews worldwide. the same goal Adolf Hitler had in mind.

Where are all the moderate Palestinians? Generally where there is an extremist arm, there are many more of moderate bent. There certainly are moderate Israelis, and their voice is regularly heard. Where is the moderate Palestinian voice? On Al-Jezeera? I see the odd one on WorldLink now and again, or DiscoveryTimes, but as a whole, they keep silent, out of fear of their more militant brothers. (And suicidal sisters.)

Is it against the law to answer the muzzien's call to prayer in Jerusalem, or anywhere in Israel? No. Would it be against the law for anyone to attend synagouge in a Palestinian free state, despite Koranic admonitions to allow Jews to practice? I would hope not, but with the track record the Palestinian Authority has shown, I believe it would be if not illegal, certainly more dangerous than now.

Indeed it would behoove everyone to follow Editor Adel Salem(which means peace, BTW) and pray for peace for Jerusalem. It will continue to be at the forefront of history.
 
Ansar al Islam "was founded in 2001 with the joint help of Saddam Hussein--who intended to use it against moderate Kurds--and Al-Qaeda, which hoped to find in Kurdistan a new location that would receive its members."

Does it bother you that the evidence you provide says that Al-Qaeda was an enemy of Hussein?

Griz, I had to read that a couple of times myself. Try it this way:

Ansar al Islam "was founded in 2001 with the joint help of Saddam Hussein--who intended to use it against moderate Kurds--and Al-Qaeda, which hoped to find in Kurdistan a new location that would receive its members."
 
Ledhead686: Some are way over the top, granted. Not really any worse than some of the filth that has been spewed by the Jew-haters in the middle east though. Others, like the first one, are in the 10 ring. Neither side's hands are unstained in this age old battle. Sometimes I wonder if maybe the rest of the world should not get together, kick EVERYBODY out and glass the entire region so NOBODY can live there. Its been a thorn in the side of the world since before the days of the Romans.
 
OK, my misunderstanding. It's a bit confusing but I still read it wrong.

But the evidence in the article still seems questionable to me. It says that Ansar was founded in late 2001, yet an agent of Ansar had dealings with Al Qaeda in 2000 and 1989. Now I realize they are talking about an individual who later joined (or founded?) Ansar, but to me using the fact that bad guys talked to each other over the years comes across as tenuous proof that they were working together for decades. Add the fact that this evidence was discovered lately, and it appears that the administration is trying to piece together a cover story that justifies the invasion.

I am a FAR cry from an expert on terrorism. There are huge gaps in my knowledge of the history of that region. But I get the impression that everybody in the mid east either is, was, or could be accused of being a terrorist. I'll admit that this bias makes me skeptical when somebody points out "ties" between various individuals or organazations. But I also know that the US has not been consistent in our policies and dealings over there, so I feel my mistrust is well placed when the story benifits the people telling it.

Again, thank you for the correction. I agree with your reading of it.
 
Sindawe...

You're right on the money with that post. Believe me when I say I harbor no great love for terrorists -- on either side -- killing innocents in the name of their God. What really irks me is the onesidedness exhibited by the US media when it comes to the Arab/Israeli conflict. The "good guys" (Israelis, natch) are every bit as capable as the "bad" when it comes to inflicting pain and grief on their enemies. America needs to awaken to this fact.

Led :cool:
 
The "good guys" (Israelis, natch) are every bit as capable as the "bad" when it comes to inflicting pain and grief on their enemies. America needs to awaken to this fact.
I hadn't heard about Israelis sending their children and teenagers into marketplaces and restaurants with bombs strapped to them to blow up innocent Palestinian women and children.

Learn something new every day.
 
hat really irks me is the onesidedness exhibited by the US media when it comes to the Arab/Israeli conflict. The "good guys" (Israelis, natch) are every bit as capable as the "bad" when it comes to inflicting pain and grief on their enemies. America needs to awaken to this fact.
That's why ya gots to watch/read/listen to more than the MSM, and discern reality for yourself. Fox News needs to be balanced with Freedom News Network (blatantly left slanted news on Public Access), FreeRepublic balanced with DemocraticUnderground, American media with BBC and Aljazeera English (wish I could read Arabic)
 
RH Lee...

Nor have I heard of Palestinians bulldozing villages or wiping out entire neighborhoods with gunships and/or tanks to kill ONE suspected terrorist.

Indeed, RH Lee -- every day is a new learning experience. ;)
 
Nor do I hear the hue and cry in Israel to completely eliminate the Palestinians from the face of the Earth. Even the most radical Israelis would rather there were peace, and would not consider genocide. I do not agree with everything the Israeli government does, state-sponsored terrorism is still terrorism. But if the situation were reversed, what would the Palestinian Authority do? (Regional history 1918-1948 does not apply, as there was a third party administering the area.) Think; What is the PLO's stated goal? What is Israel's? Who wants who eliminated? Why?

As far as tactics, it seems to me both are using 'dirty pool' ; But sacrificing your future (young suicide bombers) is heinous any way you look at it. Cowards hide behind their women and children, hoping to draw fire on them. Civilized people protect those who cannot protect themselves. This to me is the difference between what the Israelis do and what the Palestinians (and islamofascists world wide) do.
 
Add the fact that this evidence was discovered lately, and it appears that the administration is trying to piece together a cover story that justifies the invasion.

The evidence, of course, suggests that this analysis is wrong. Even as naysayers in the States continue to deny any connection, such staunchly anti-Iraq War publications as Le Monde have long since conceded the point. One day before the Time article, on July 9, the French daily published a news story that declared Ansar al Islam "was founded in 2001 with the joint help of Saddam Hussein--who intended to use it against moderate Kurds--and al Qaeda, which hoped to find in Kurdistan a new location that would receive its members."


so I feel my mistrust is well placed when the story benifits the people telling it.

I understand your point... however Le Monde? A very anti-US, Anti- Iraq daily?

By the way Griz, I also appreciate your civility.
 
entropy...

"Who wants who eliminated?" you ask? I suggest you read the link I put up in post #111 (apparently it slipped by you). The "why" is anyone's guess.

Led :cool:
 
OldDog wrote:
Oh, c'mon now. Now you're being insulting. I was there. Apparently, there are more Iraqis who appreciate our efforts over there than there are in many parts of our own county.

Let's hope that Iraq can live in a free society. Unfortunately, it looks more and more like it will turn into an Islamic theocracy a la Iran or descend into civil war. I'm looking for reasons to be optimistic, but whether we stay or leave, that place seems hopeless. I'm not exactly a Sister Mary Sunshine, I admit....

I don't mean to insult you or any other serviceman, but what I see coming out of DC is a relentless drive for our political class to impose its will on everyone on the planet.

UNSCOM and the IAEA withdrew most of their inspectors in response, and the Security Council called on Iraq November 12 to rescind its decision and refrain from imposing any conditions on inspectors.

And Iraq eventually relented and allowed UN inspectors back in, by that time Bush was determined to get his war on.

CombatArmsUSAF asked:
Have you been locked in closet for the last 15-20 years? Or do you not watch the news at all?

I rarely "watch" the news, but I tend to read avidly. The idiot box is for...well, idiots. And did you know that a recent study shows a positive correlation between watching FOX news and misinformed opinions about the Middle East? The study is right here. "Those who receive most of their news from Fox News are more likely than average to have misperceptions."

The other night on NightLine they devoted an entire seven minutes to the important topic of the role of Islam in international terrorism. Some a complex issue, and they allowed only enough time for the most superficial treatment. :barf:

And you can see Rumsfeld make several comments on how easy the war would be, how quick, how easy, how fast, how simple

Winning the war against Saddam *was* a cakewalk, but winning the peace has proven quite elusive. There was a window of opportunity right after the fall of Baghdad in which the Bush Administration could have pulled it off.

Then it seems to go on to argue that the US invasion of Iraq was done to make the Israelis safer.

Supporters of the war invariably invoke Saddam's support for Palestinian violence against Israelis as a legitimate reason for the US to initiate a war against Iraq.

Surprisingly, the European press tells a different story.

Wish they were more specific.

According to the German press, Ansar al Islam is the "target of Germany-wide police action" and more than several individuals have been arrested for alleged ties to the group.

Who is reporting this? Bild? Der Spiegel? Die Zeit? It makes a difference.

The terrorists in France, Germany, Italy, and Spain are all connected--in one way or another--to the same Iraqi-based network which spawned the Kurdish-based group just 10 days prior to September 11, 2001. Therein lies the controversy.

Al Qaeda is more of a political movement than it is an actually organization.

For those analysts and politicians, particularly in the United States, who cling desperately to the notion that there was "no connection" between Iraq and al Qaeda, Ansar al Islam presents a problem.

There was no operational support by Saddam for Bin Laden and the 9-11 hi-jackers.

One day before the Time article, on July 9, the French daily published a news story that declared Ansar al Islam

HHmm.....I need to read that actual article instead of relying on these writers.

The second, described in a report from the National Security Agency, reported that the Iraqi regime and al Qaeda reached an agreement whereby the regime would provide safehaven in northern Iraq to al Qaeda terrorists fleeing Afghanistan. Also, the regime agreed to fund and to arm the incoming jihadists.

The Iraqi government did not exercise effective sovereinty over the nothern part of Iraq where Ansar al Islam operated. Besides, Ansar al Islam didn't attack us on 9-11.

If he couldn't deliver the weapons against us conventionally, do you really think he'd have a problem delivering them to other terrorist groups to use against us?

Yes. If he turned WMD over to Bin Laden's guys, then they would be out of Saddam's control.

I hadn't heard about Israelis sending their children and teenagers into marketplaces and restaurants with bombs strapped to them to blow up innocent Palestinian women and children.

The Israeli military targeted civilian targets during their invasion of Lebanon in 1982. See Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians.

Nor do I hear the hue and cry in Israel to completely eliminate the Palestinians from the face of the Earth.

Look harder and you will see eliminationist anti-Arab sentiment that borders on the genocidal. I can give you examples when I get home.
 
"Look harder and you will see eliminationist anti-Arab sentiment that borders on the genocidal."

I don't doubt it. They've been under daily assault by armies, assassins or terrorist bombs and guns since 1948.

There is an obvious difference between the "Palestinian" violence and the Israeli: That of the former is addressed to "Any Old Jew That's Near"; that of the latter is as specific to a particular hostile or group of hostiles as possible.

The Israeli Constitution does not call for genocide of these so-called Palestinians. The Charter of the PLO specifically called for the eradication of Israel and its Jews until that item was grudgingly removed in 1998, +/- on the date.

Art
 
For those analysts and politicians, particularly in the United States, who cling desperately to the notion that there was "no connection" between Iraq and al Qaeda, Ansar al Islam presents a problem.

There was no operational support by Saddam for Bin Laden and the 9-11 hi-jackers.

Although I've heard many liberals claim the Bush administration cited a link between Saddam and 9/11, I myself never heard, or even got, that impression pre-war (or at any time, for that matter). The argument I heard, and that was supported by the UN Security Council, was that Saddam had failed to properly answer to 17 SC resolutions, defied the worlds insistance he prove all WMD were destroyed, and had at least demonstrable links to terrorist organizations that could prove disastrous to us (U.S.), the region and the world, should his WMD fall into the hands of same.

LEST WE FORGET, Saddam had shown his aggressive nature many times. Starting the war with Iran (yes, I know we supported that, and understandably so. Its called strategy.), killed thousands of Kurdish men, women & children, filled dozens of mass graves, invaded Kuwait, set his sights on Saudi Arabia (which caused yet another war, which, by the way, he lost, and signed a surrender pact that they didn't honor either), from all accounts, a real upstanding guy that we should trust when he says he doesn't have any WMD. In fact, it wasn't just western nations that thought he did, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia did too. But Bush lied. wow.



The problem with our liberal friends, is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't true! Ronald Reagan - 1964
 
My problem is the general impression from all this that Saddam was linked to the 9-11 attack. If you doubt that the Bush administration advanced this idea, here are a few links:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney_link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html

You can Google 9-11 Iraq link, and find volumes of references to the insinuations. You will also find links to many carefully worded denials saying essentially “we have no evidence that Saddam was involved in 9-11 but we know he has links to terrorism and is a threat to America”. Even the denials subtlety implied that he was connected. But the evidence for the connection boils down to meetings between people in terrorist organizations over the course of decades. They even count meetings with an individual if he later joined an organization that was formed years after the meeting.

It sounds like grasping at straws to me. With that logic you could claim (I am not claiming this) that the Bush administration has ties to Al-Qaeda. After all there have been meetings between terrorist and people who at some time in their lives worked for the government of the US. So even though a French newspaper says that a member of Ansar traveled to Baghdad (a claim the paper doubts) or Al-Qaeda helped fund Ansar, I don’t see the puzzle pieces falling into place and proving that Saddam was connected to 9-11. Yes Al-Qaeda created a terrorist organization in a corner of Iraq. That means very little when you see that even now Iraq is very much divided, both geographically and along religious lines.
 
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