Why real BP?

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Triple Seven is ... the most dependable powder on the market for blackpowder firearms hands down. Cannot be argued with or disputed honestly.
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I would certainly have to disagree with you there. Ever tried it in a flintlock?
 
Triple Seven is the prefered load in my .22 ''Magnum'' Companion, where I want all the ''poo'' I can get.I still prefer BP in everything else ,for consistancy.
 
Same old discussion only it's a different thread.
What's the point?
777 can be used in a flintlock in a duplex load.
I don't blame anyone for not wanting to use it in their flintlock, but it works with a small booster charge of black added and it has noticiably higher velocity potential than Goex and Swiss ffg.

See post #35 for some comparative chronograph velocity data from a flintlock:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469522&highlight=herb&page=2
 
Now see?!! Ol' Articap came right in here and said what I meant exactly. Higher velocity, more bang for the buck in other words. Now can't we all just be friends and argue and cuss each other peacefully?!!....
 
I think the fact that 777 is hygroscopic precludes it's use in a muzzle loader or cap n ball revolver that is kept loaded for a long time, like for self defense.
Don't know for certain. Just that I had good results with very old BP, and also a 2nd Mdl Dragoon that was kept loaded with the same charge of BP for near a year without a missfire.
I know that's an unusual scenario, but it counts for something.
My new can of 777 didn't have a very good seal when I took off the cap for the first time. It was 'unstuck' about 30% the way around the rim.
The powder had a large soft clump in it. That clump did break up easily, and the powder shot well in my Renegade tho-.
Something to consider.
 
Shipchief, yes sir that is something to consider. I'vd never had that happen with any of the one pound plastic containers of 777 that I'vd ordered or received but if I found one like that I'd be raising hell. ( I know it wouldn't really do any good).
I don't keep my .45 inlines loaded, but my '47, 58's, '49's, .22 Mag Mini revolvers and my Cattleman's carbines have stayed loaded for extended periods of time at one time or the other and I'vd had no problems. I change the caps every couple of weeks or so and which ever ones I keep loaded are ball sealed with Crisco. (except for the .22Mini revolvers)....PS. I started out with BlackMag3 some years ago and then it got hard to find and that's when I went over to Triple Seven. Anyway, a couple of years or so ago I came across 2 pounds of the BlackMag3 that I had long since forgotten I even had. It had never been opened but it was hard as a rock. I deliberated awhile and then carefully cut the plastic containers open and ran all the powder through my ball mill for about 40 minutes the best I remember. Anyway it shot real good and now it's back on the market but I'll stay with my Triple Seven. Hell, I know black powder is good stuff. I just like Triple Seven better. It has more punch and is not near as dirty as black powder and I don't own or fire guns where ignition is a problem....
 
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My .45 Cherokee rifle and Patriot pistol both remained loaded with 777 from last fall's hunting season until June. Both fired flawlessly with the first try when I lit 'em off for a little target practice.
 
So...


'Triple Seven' is harder to ignite than traditional Black Powder?


Hence...Flint Locks, one would use 4f BP for Priming, and, 777 for the main Charge?


BP Metallic Cartridge wise...would 777 be expected to behave alright?


And, would it be expected to deliver higher FPS?
 
'Triple Seven' is harder to ignite than traditional Black Powder?
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If over compressed it can be.

And, would it be expected to deliver higher FPS?
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Yes, even using it at it's recommended 15% reduced load it it seems hotter to me. I have no proof of this, just from looking at items I have shot with it.

Real black is getting harder and harder to find, there may come a day when the only thing we have to choose from is T7 and Pyrodex.
 
777, and for that matter all other synthetic black powders, has a higher ignition temperature than real black powder. It isn't 'harder' to ignite, it just takes a higher temperature. Standard caps, and the gas produced by the powder in a flintlock priming pan, often don't achieve the higher temperature required, especially at the distance between the pan and the main charge in most flintlocks.

If you need (or want) to use 777 as the main charge in a flintlock, you should first load about 5 gr of real black powder, then load the 777. The small charge of real black in the barrel will ignite first from the priming charge in the pan and that will ignite the 777 since they are adjacent. You can use either fffg or ffffg real black powder in the pan.

777 should work well in cartridges as the normal rifle cartridge primers will produce sufficient heat to ignite it, and the powder is adjacent to the primer.

Real black powder is still routinely available from mail order outfitters. The issue isn't availability so much as cost - mail order involves paying a $22 hazardous material shipping fee, which most people are reluctant to do.
 
I have used Triple Seven in my Trapdoor loads,and it was flatter shooting than even my favorite Goex.Smaller group too_On the other hand it costs me almost double what the real deal costs on a group buy from my BP club so,I'll stick [for the most part] with Goex.
 
BHP FAN said:
I have used Triple Seven in my Trapdoor loads,and it was flatter shooting than even my favorite Goex.Smaller group too_On the other hand it costs me almost double what the real deal costs on a group buy from my BP club so,I'll stick [for the most part] with Goex.
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I'm gonna have to do some digging. I have yet to find BP available at any of the retailers around me. Luckily... got at least two more guys I can split an order with. And, I do want to give it a shot... so to speak. :cool:
 
Ratface68

The only place left in the State this side of Eastern Washington is just outside Shelton Washington . Other than that , your screwed for BP .
Last time I bought was $22 a can , Goex .

Cheers, Jaeger
 
Govt. always finds a way to screw the private sector. Hmmm... could be a reason to fuel up the scooter to get me some.
 
Are you Cylinical Ratboywonderdog68

Hee hee hee . It isn't that they are trying to screw the private sector , they are trying to make it impossible to arm ourselves so we can take them out is what it is . TOO LATE , I AM ARMED ALREADY . :D

Jaeger
 
Oh... that's just one facet... there's plenty of Governmental Carnal Knowledge going around... not JUST what it's trying to do with the 2nd Amendment rights for us.
 
I reckon I'm weird :rolleyes:'cause I like any gunpowder that allows me to shoot my revolvers, shotguns and rifles. If it goes bang I like it. If it hits where I'm aiming I like it even better.:D

Seriously, BP is my favorite. I use PyrodexRS in my CAS shotgun loads 'cause after deer season here in Oklahoma I can get it at Walmart for about $10.00/lb. It's just plain cheaper to load, and shotguns eat a lot of powder.

I've loaded 777 in .44-40, 1.9cc. I can tell a difference, it is a hotter load than 2.2cc of Goex. Once I even loaded some FFFg 777. Let's just say I'm glad I shot it in my Rossi '92 first. That stuff was SERIOUS hot. I'm guessin' 1600 to 1700 fps. It wasn't a blind experiment, I called Hodgdon's, asked some questions, told him which gun I planned to use, and he said "go ahead and try it."

I did a test with my T/C Hawken, shooting the same amount of APP, 777, Pyrodex, and Goex FFg and FFFg. I don't remember the velocities off hand, but 777 was the fastest, then Pryodex, then Goex, and APP was the slowest.

Here's my take. If authenticity is important to you then use the Holy Black. If you just want to have fun, use whatever you want. If GOTC likes 777, has good luck with it and is having fun, then I'm all for it. If someone hates 777 well, there are other products. I don't like liver:eek:, but I bet there's someone here that does.

Broadbill, buy a pound or two of each. You'll figger out which is best for you. Doesn't matter what's best for me. And you'll be supporting the manufacturers, which is always a good thing.
 
Real black powder is still routinely available from mail order outfitters. The issue isn't availability so much as cost - mail order involves paying a $22 hazardous material shipping fee, which most people are reluctant to do.
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That Haz-Mat fee also applies to any of the fake powders. So now, lets compare apples to apples.

A case of 25 cans of GOEX from Grafs would cost me $15.97 per pound to my door. I don't know why, but Grafs website automatically charges a double haz-mat fee ($45) for an order over 20 lbs. of black powder. As far as I know, the haz-mat fee is supposed to be $22.50 for any package up to 70 lbs. gross weight (which would cover up to 2 25-lb. cases of GOEX) Assuming that the haz-mat fee calculation on Grafs website is incorrect and the normal $22.50 fee would apply for a case of 25 lbs., it would only be $15.07 per pound to my door.

Before I order my next case of GOEX I will call Grafs and ask about the Haz-Mat fee, as it doesn't increase beyond $22.50 per case of 25 lbs. for any of the fake powders I checked. But for 2 cases (50 lbs.) of GOEX, it jumps to a triple fee of $67.50. If this is correct, I may have to take my powder business elsewhere, as it seems Grafs is over-charging on the Haz-Mat fee.

A case of 25 pounds of Pyrodex from Grafs would cost me $15.67 per pound to my door. Cabelas sells Pyrodex RS for $19 per pound.

A case of 25 lbs. of Triple Se7en from Grafs is $22.07 to my door. Again, Cabelas sells Triple Se7en for $27 per pound.

While Grafs is pretty cheap for the fake powders, they are one of the more expensive vendors for GOEX. I could certainly do better by shopping around, but I wanted to compare apples to apples. For example, according to their website, I can get a case of GOEX from Jack's Powder Keg for $12.60 per pound shipped.

By the way, Dixon's charges $20 per lb. for GOEX. I don't know about any of the fake powders that Dixon's might sell, as I have no use for any of them. A little steep, but sometimes you have to pay a little bit more for convenience. I just bought a pound of FFFg from Dixon's las week as I have been out of work on disability for more than 4 months and can't afford to order a case until I start getting a paycheck again.

So when you compare apples to apples, black powder is no more expensive than any of the fakes, and is in fact cheaper than many of the fake powders.

As far as splitting a case among a couple of shooters - why bother? I shoot a MINIMUM of 10 lbs. of GOEX per year. So a case lasts me about 2 years. And as long as I plan ahead a little bit, I never run out of powder.
 
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Real black powder is still routinely available from mail order outfitters.
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For the time being it is. I have read that dept of homeland security wants to add a licensing requirement to posses black powder.

Right now mail order seems the best and cheapest way, especially if you can get a few folks together to share the haz-mat fee.
 
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