You have No Place in NY if you oppose SAFE

[ATLDave]

The really funny thing is this quote:
"“Some politicians out there can be bought for $10, and some politicians can’t be bought for $10 billion, you know? It’s a question about the person,” he said. ” … It’s not how much does it cost to buy a politician, it’s that a politician can be bought.” (Which is, as Newsday’s Yancey Roy noted on Twitter as the interview was going on, very similar to arguments that opponents of public financing have been making.)"

So Cuomo realizes that people who want to do bad things will do bad things, and those who don't want to do bad things won't do bad things... regardless of whether the most likely instrumentalities of those bad things are legal or prohibited.

Hmmm... that's almost exactly the same reasoning as "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Except the subject matter is big money donations. Like a great many people, Cuomo is blind to the important liberty interests in rights that he doesn't personally use or care about (e.g., guns), but has no problem seeing the inherent difficulties and problems in regulating a right that he does care about (campaign money and speech).

What a hypocrite.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Willie, I think there's a difference in what you did and the average citizen leaving. The average citizen doesn't pump big $ into the economy. You didn't only vote with your feet. You voted with your wallet as well.

I'm just saying that if every 2A supporter packs up and leaves, who will be left to vote for politicians who support it.

I realize that this is an easy position for me to take since I live in a gun friendly state. I'm not pretending to know exactly what I would do and don't envy you guys at all.

 

[ATLDave]

Advising residents of anti-gun states to just leave is like advising a army to win a battle by retreating from every locale where the enemy appears in force. It's a fine short-term strategy for maximizing force protection. It doesn't really have much else going for it.

As suggested by Arkansas Paul, it's a different matter if you're talking about corporate divestment. But citizens - you know, the people who get to vote and sometimes persuade friends and stuff - leaving is just a step towards defeat.

When opposition to a policy is concentrated in just a few states, then that policy will soon win completely by way of federal law. American history is pretty clear on this point, actually.

 

[tarosean]

Maybe a class action for discrimination is in order..

 

[Pizzapinochle]

Full quote:

"You have a schism within the Republican Party. … They’re searching to define their soul, that’s what’s going on. Is the Republican party in this state a moderate party or is it an extreme conservative party? That’s what they’re trying to figure out. It’s a mirror of what’s going on in Washington. The gridlock in Washington is less about Democrats and Republicans. It’s more about extreme Republicans versus moderate Republicans.

… You’re seeing that play out in New York. … The Republican Party candidates are running against the SAFE Act — it was voted for by moderate Republicans who run the Senate! Their problem is not me and the Democrats; their problem is themselves. Who are they? Are they these extreme conservatives who are right-to-life, pro-assault-weapon, anti-gay? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and they’re the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.

If they’re moderate Republicans like in the Senate right now, who control the Senate — moderate Republicans have a place in their state. George Pataki was governor of this state as a moderate Republican; but not what you’re hearing from them on the far right.”"

 

[JRH6856]

After all, Hillary Clinton is the runaway favorite to win the nomination.

I keep hearing rumors that Hillary is going to get some pretty strong opposition from Michelle Obama. I wouldn't bet against it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The truth is that he doesn't know about my company, or the others run by entrapreneurs like me who just very quietly go away. He might notice the lessening of taxes collected as businesses like mine just fold up and leave, but it's like a pool being slowly drained slowly. It's hard to see at first but as the shallow end becomes more and more exposed, the rate seems to increase faster and faster. Eventually the pool is empty.

Interestingly enough, New York has a massive ad campaign to attract businesses, including touting low taxes. I think Cuomo knows what's happening, but can't figure out why.

Maybe a class action for discrimination is in order..

How about criminal action? For a governor to attack people because of their political orientation and attempt to drive them out of the state is clearly violation of civil rights under color of authority -- and that's a federal crime.

 

[Willie Sutton]

Read the Ayn Rand quotes I put above and think about them.

Cuomo and other looters like him are the existential enemy of business owners like me.



Willie

.

 

[itsa pain]

Lizard face Cuomo should be in jail for the missing and stolen billions when he was head of HUD some years back. Cuomoism is alive and well in NY. The quotes before from Ann Raynd where she says govt will make so many laws that no one is law abiding always reminds me of the gun owners who are always shrieking about the right of "law abiding" people to own guns. Gun owners are way to divided to make a difference in a state like NY. Some like background checks mag limits etc

 

[itsa pain]

Full quote:

"You have a schism within the Republican Party. … They’re searching to define their soul, that’s what’s going on. Is the Republican party in this state a moderate party or is it an extreme conservative party? That’s what they’re trying to figure out. It’s a mirror of what’s going on in Washington. The gridlock in Washington is less about Democrats and Republicans. It’s more about extreme Republicans versus moderate Republicans.

… You’re seeing that play out in New York. … The Republican Party candidates are running against the SAFE Act — it was voted for by moderate Republicans who run the Senate! Their problem is not me and the Democrats; their problem is themselves. Who are they? Are they these extreme conservatives who are right-to-life, pro-assault-weapon, anti-gay? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and they’re the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.

If they’re moderate Republicans like in the Senate right now, who control the Senate — moderate Republicans have a place in their state. George Pataki was governor of this state as a moderate Republican; but not what you’re hearing from them on the far right.”"

Also under the "Republican" Pataki the first assault rifle ban went into effect and he was the one behind it. He actually thought being NY Gov. would propel him into the mix for president toting along the assault rifle ban with him.

 

[SilentStalker]

What I find more alarming about this whole situation other than his actual quote is the fact that the problem that plagues NY politics actually is becoming a national problem. The deal is people are too blind to see it coming but its coming. Just wait until the next election cycle. Once the problem has developed deep roots its very hard to deal with.

 

[ATLDave]

I keep hearing rumors that Hillary is going to get some pretty strong opposition from Michelle Obama. I wouldn't bet against it.

Pfft. And now you know that the people telling you those things have absolutely no clue about actual politics. That ain't happening.

 

[danez71]

"If people "vote with their feet" and leave, then no there's not"

Yes there is. The sooner places like this become completely failed states, without sufficient revenue to pay for the promises made to those who still remain, the sooner they will topple over and be able to be renewed.
...
...
...

The only question that will remain is if there are sufficient entrapraneurs left to rebuild an economy. Look at Detroit as a smaller scale example. When businesses leave, what's left is nothing. It's just a matter of watching more and more rats fight for a smaller and smaller piece of cheese. Eventually it's all gone and the rats die off.

NYC is the financial capitol of the world. It isn't going to become a failed state.


Yes,,, lets look Detroit.

All of those jobs left how many decades ago? Its been what, 30 yrs or so?

After 30 yrs, is Detroit any better? NO! Its worse. Their economy still stinks. Their politician still stink. And their gun laws still stink.

The bulk of the residents are looking for the politicians to give them social aide and will vote for who ever promises the most.


Now lets look at CO. The CO residents that stayed and fought ousted some politicians. The companies (and people) that moved didn't accomplished didley squat to help CO or the rest of the country.


Retreating to the middle of the country is exactly what the anti 2A politician want.

This map is shows a 100 mile zone all around the USA. In that 100 mile zone lives 2/3 of the U.S. population.

Roughly 1/2 of the East and West coast is run by anti 2A politicans. Austin TX is just out side the 100 zone is has been anti for a long time now.






If people keep running away from the problem and retreating to the middle of the country, they will be literally surrounded by the anti's.

Those brave souls in DC and Chicago didn't run and hide.... they fought back in the courts and got the entire country favorable 2A SCOTUS decisions.

That's a plan that has been proven to work.

Running and trying to hurt a states economy is a plan that has proven to fail.

 

[pseudonymity]

I do not think New Yorkers should "vote with their feet" and leave the state -- after all, they have some responsibility for the current condition of the state. And when they move to another state, they -- like **********ns -- bring all the problems with them.

If you have not spent time in NY state, I am not sure that you can understand what the gun owners are facing in terms of responsibility. If you believe that the people who live in upstate NY are in any way similar to the NY city residents, nothing could be farther from the truth. Upstate NY and East Long Island really is gun country. Upstate is not a small area either - there are ~8 million people living outside the NYC area, and probably 4 million or more are gun owners. Sadly, we have to deal with ~11 million people packed into 7 of NYs 62 counties, and they just love to be controlled. They have been pushing gun control in those counties for more than a century.

To put that NYC metro voting into perspective - if every citizen in the states of Maine, New Hampshire, Kansas, Mississippi and New Mexico *combined* voted against some kind of gun control, the voters in just the NYC metro area voting for gun control would still be a larger number. We just do not have the numbers.

NY is a state in the same way Iraq is a country - somebody drew lines on a map years ago and now it requires the threat and actual use of force to keep the whole thing from falling apart. Many NY residents outside NYC would jump at the chance to split the state - it is always kind of a running joke outside NYC.

 

[pseudonymity]

If they’re moderate Republicans like in the Senate right now, who control the Senate — moderate Republicans have a place in their state. George Pataki was governor of this state as a moderate Republican; but not what you’re hearing from them on the far right.”"

Moderate Republicans in NY would be called socialists in other states. Pataki signed the NY version of the 94 AWB in to NY law, but without the expiration date. Bloomberg is a NY "moderate Republican".

It is no secret that often times the runner up in the Democratic party is the Republican candidate during the general election, since the NYC voters are going to go Democrat almost every time. Upstate the situation is reversed - recently in one county there was a heated battle for Republican candidate for sheriff. The Democratic party solution was to endorse the Conservative party candidate. Arguably the strongest 2A supporter in the race was actually running on the Democrat line.

 

[orionengnr]

Oh...trust me. Those of us who live elsewhere understand exactly what happens next.

People from California escape to Oregon, Washington, Nevada, and elsewhere. And they bring their politics with them.

It happened in Colorado to the extent that it turned the state blue, and what happened next?

People from New York have been infiltrating CT since I grew up in the 60s/70s. These days, people from Massachusetts escape to New Hampshire and Vermont, and do likewise.

Live in Florida? Do you have any idea of how many New Yorkers and New Jerseyites live part time (and vote full time) in your state?

All of the Sun Belt states have large populations of Snowbirds from Blue states. I guarantee that many of them have figured out how to vote from both residences--our voting laws are antiquated, and do not take this into account. And recent court decisions have gone the wrong way for honest voters.

The Donkey Party has a well-publicized plan to do the same thing in Texas and other Red States, and that plan is in full force.

They have no intention of staying in NY, MA, CA, MD, etc. They want to infiltrate every state and overturn the status quo. ...one state at a time.

Our idiot TX Governor Rick Perry gleefully invites CA businesses to relocate to TX. He is not smart enough to realize that they bring thousands (or tens, or hundreds of thousands) of Californians with them. Austin was lost to Socialists long ago. Houston is gone. Dallas is gone. Fort Worth is on the edge. As long as there are enough voters who live in the suburbs of these cities, we hold the advantage...but just barely.

Not a good long term plan. :banghead:

 

[goon]

If people keep running away from the problem and retreating to the middle of the country, they will be literally surrounded by the anti's.

Those brave souls in DC and Chicago didn't run and hide.... they fought back in the courts and got the entire country favorable 2A SCOTUS decisions.

That's a plan that has been proven to work.

Running and trying to hurt a states economy is a plan that has proven to fail.

I'm not sure I entirely disagree, but I'm also not willing to drop what I'm doing and move to rural NY to join up and fight the good fight.
Since I'm not willing to do that, I'd be a hypocrite to sit in the comfort of my "free" state and expect others to stay in NY and suffer.

 

[itsa pain]

Cuomo Bloomberg and other pols could care less about upstate NY and all the people that leave NY because they have the financial district of wall st. They just keep swapping this and that with phony money moving it back and forth creating huge baseless profits and the city and state tax the heck out of it and the poor working shlubs that cant leave financing the whole mess

 

[danez71]

I'm not sure I entirely disagree, but I'm also not willing to drop what I'm doing and move to rural NY to join up and fight the good fight.
Since I'm not willing to do that, I'd be a hypocrite to sit in the comfort of my "free" state and expect others to stay in NY and suffer.

Everyone has to make their own decisions.

All I'm saying is that the "vote with your feet" mentality has been proven to be NOT effective or affective to make any meaningful difference.

Sure. It might sound like you're 'sticking it to them' but the reality is that it does not work. Its been proven time and time again yet people here still suggest the same failed plan of 'run away'.


Some people (far too many people here) fail to recognize that the people fighting in anti states and winning court decisions are contributing heavily to other people being able to say they live in a 'free state'.


Those that choose to stay fight deserved to be supported and praised; not mocked and told to run away.

If it weren't for them, Heller and McDonald would have never happened. With out Heller and McDonald, EVERY state would be in a worse position than what they are in now.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"Running and trying to hurt a states economy is a plan that has proven to fail."

Leaving NY and immediately improving my own bottom line as a businessman while offering my employees a lower cost and higher quality of living is a winner for everyone within my own organization, and that's the only group with which I have a social contract. NY lost my tax revenue, which is their problem and one I could not care less about. Hurting them was not my intent, and if I do, or do not, is completely irrelevent to my decision making process. It's a byproduct of being true to my contract with myself. The fact is that they DID lose my revenue. If that means nothing becauise it's just noise lost in the signal, again I could care not a whit.

I'm a businessman, not a philanthropy. I make rational business decisions, not social statements. I need to live within the framework of the timing of my own lifespan, not to the timing of some nebulous long term social goal. Leaving was an enormous and immediate improvement in every possible way.


"All I'm saying is that the "vote with your feet" mentality has been proven to be NOT effective or affective to make any meaningful difference."

To whom?

You? Or some general sense of "us"?

Because in the end the only person you are resonsible for is you.

Moving from where you are a CRIMINAL for enjoying your RIGHTS into a place where your rights are respected and you are no longer a criminal is a meaningful difference for the person who counts: You.




Willie

.

 

[danez71]

Leaving NY and immediately improving my own bottom line as a businessman while offering my employees a lower cost and higher quality of living is a winner ..........

Which is why, in part, I said everyone needs to make their own decisions.

Some people move to those states for employment/business reasons. Some people move out for employment/business reasons.


However, judging by your previous posts, you're not thinking delusionally that NY cared at all that you moved your business.

The other businesses affected by you moving might/probably cared; but NY didn't.

 

[goon]

I understand Mr. Sutton's point.

In the case of NY, as pointed out by another poster, you'd need an inordinate number of voters to turn the tide the other way for the state. As for court cases, NY has been stuck with limits for years that the rest of us wouldn't put up with. In NYC people get letters demanding guns be surrendered or altered for having a .22 rifle that can hold more than 5 rounds. And hasn't the Sullivan Act been in effect since around 1911? Isn't the permit system in NYC to carry a handgun so politically connected that you basically have to be part of the ruling class to exercise your Constitutionally protected right?

No offense to New Yorkers - I know some of you are just plain stuck. But if something was going to work out in NY, wouldn't it have worked out by now? Even just a little?

 

[3GunEric]

A study of history and demographics = no hope for saving places like NY. I voted with my feet and abandoned Maryland. Been so happy living in a place where freedom still thrives. To those who argue that they will stay in places like NY and make a stand there - good luck. Reminds me of people who refused to depart Germany while the getting was still good.

The situation is so sad!

 

[Midwest]

I understand Mr. Sutton's point.

In the case of NY, as pointed out by another poster, you'd need an inordinate number of voters to turn the tide the other way for the state. As for court cases, NY has been stuck with limits for years that the rest of us wouldn't put up with. In NYC people get letters demanding guns be surrendered or altered for having a .22 rifle that can hold more than 5 rounds. And hasn't the Sullivan Act been in effect since around 1911? Isn't the permit system in NYC to carry a handgun so politically connected that you basically have to be part of the ruling class to exercise your Constitutionally protected right?

No offense to New Yorkers - I know some of you are just plain stuck. But if something was going to work out in NY, wouldn't it have worked out by now? Even just a little?

I don't live or ever have lived in NY, I have visited there a few times. I always wondered why in the 102+ years the Sullivan Law has been in effect, I have never heard any legal challenges to the law. There might have been legal challenges, but I never heard of any. The original idea of the permit system (Sullivan Law) was politically motivated.

I read on some other site that New York State has 4 to 5 million gun owners. Imagine if it was possible to mobilize all those gun owners to vote for a pro-gun candidate?

 

[GiorgioG]

I read on some other site that New York State has 4 to 5 million gun owners. Imagine if it was possible to mobilize all those gun owners to vote for a pro-gun candidate?

NYC has 8+ million residents (not to mention the surrounding areas) who are largely anti-gun. So even if you could mobilize 100% of gun owners...they'd still lose and that's why NY sucks for gun owners and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.