No guns for Muslims, Liberals?

I herd a interview with him on the radio. He said this was meant to air on a small local country station.(50 mile range) The liberal thing was really just a jab at a couple of his neighbors.

He also mentioned knowing the people who gave the course to the fort hood shooter. I don't think he wants that on his shoulders.

That said he also said he's never turned anyone away from his class.

According to the civil rights act of 1964 he is in violation of the law. You cannot discriminate based on religion or political affiliation. Imagine schools not allowing children to attend school that had gun owning parents. Doubtful many on this forum would be proud of the school system standing up for what they believe in..see the "Dr. asks if there are guns in the house thread" It seems there is a double standard.

The problem with this is that if you make a joke about how Muslims are violent, they will be offended, and the result is a couple of offendees will make threats. Thus, those couple of people (regardless of how many did not make violent threats), perpetuate the stereotype. Those couple of people are the idiots, if you ask me. If they would turn the other cheek, maybe the stereotype would go away. Please note that I'm not picking on Muslims in general, but specifically those who react to jokes by saying "if you call me violent I will kill you in protest." Uh...that is violent.

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Actually you made this up, it didn't happen..pure speculation. One could also speculate that this guy would threaten to kill any liberal or Muslim that showed up at the class.

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Did you read the article? Because I didn't make this up. From the article:

Friday, however, Keller's wife, Diane, played back two threatening recorded messages, including one in which a caller claimed to be Muslim and threatened to kill the Kellers. Sheriff's deputies are investigating both calls.

The affable Keller, 65, who typically sports a wide-brimmed straw hat, isn't scared by the death threats, saying they vindicate his position.

“And that's exactly why I won't teach” Muslims, he said, setting up his booth Friday at the gun show. “Actually, I don't have a problem with them, but I think I'm getting one. That's OK. I guess turnabout is fair play.”

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Then there's the man who drew a cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb on his turban, and the reaction of some Muslims was to put a death warrant on the artist's head, and others bombed embassies. Once again, I'm not saying all Muslims reacted that way, but if you respond to the stereotype of violence with violence, you perpetuate the stereotype.

In this article, it only took 2 callers to perpetuate the stereotype. How many people were nonviolently offended? Who knows. How many people were offended and reacted with threats of violence? Enough to make this guy say "I was right." My problem isn't with Muslims, it's with those two callers. It's with the ones who put the hit out on the cartoonist. It's with those who bombed embassies over a joke. It is with those specific people that I have a problem, and Muslims should have an even bigger problem with. After all, it is those people who perpetuate the stereotype.

The BOR applies to all citizens. If he decides to take this approach he could end up not having his FFL renewed on the basis of religious discrimination.

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I don't think his FFL would be in any danger. However, he might very well run afoul of state or Federal civil right laws.

Besides which, he's an idiot. The more liberals have guns, the less support anti-gunners will enjoy from liberals.

^ No kidding, why draw lines between liberals and conservatives when it comes to gun ownership. Should conservatives not want liberals to be gun owners?

I think it's decidedly Un-American to deny service to someone because they don't share your politics.

In this article, it only took 2 callers to perpetuate the stereotype. How many people were nonviolently offended? Who knows. How many people were offended and reacted with threats of violence? Enough to make this guy say "I was right." My problem isn't with Muslims, it's with those two callers. It's with the ones who put the hit out on the cartoonist. It's with those who bombed embassies over a joke. It is with those specific people that I have a problem, and Muslims should have an even bigger problem with. After all, it is those people who perpetuate the stereotype

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There was no confirmation any caller was Muslim..it could have very well been some white dude..again it is total speculation without verification.

I think it's decidedly Un-American to deny service to someone because they don't share your politics.

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right on.

That man probably (absent any possible discrimination lawsuit) has the right to say whatever he chooses or sell to whomever he choses.

Fortunately, the consumer has the right to choose to do business with him, or not.

I laud his right to free speech. I also am grateful for my freedom not do any business with him as I find his comments backward, bigoted, provincial, shortsighted, and embarrassing and I do not want to associate myself with him or promote his endeavors in any way.

Obviously, religious bigotry is no more palatable than racial bigotry.

His claim to not trust the decision making abilities of someone who voted contrary to his opinions makes him look like a liar (he's obviously attempting to act in a retaliatory way, not out of some safety consciousness), or very foolish (could he really be so dumb as to not understand the difference between evaluating political options and firearms safety?), and probably both.

Being as I'm not a Muslim, I'm unconcerned with the stupid things Muslims are saying as a result of this guy, and how that reflects upon them as individuals and/or adherents to a particular faith.

However, I am a gun owner, shooter, and strong believer in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

As a result, I do have a vested interest in how another gun owner publicly conducts himself and how his conduct can be used by others outside of the gun culture as a way to judge and dismiss the beliefs of those of us who believe in individual liberty, including the RKBA.

This argument is where Libertarianism falls on its face and comparisons with public and private enterprise gets all muddled.
It's to bad that a person who owns their own business can't conduct it as he sees fit no matter if others agree or not.
No matter how you feel about the mans views it is his property and he has rights as well.

It's to bad that a person who owns their own business can't conduct it as he sees fit no matter if others agree or not.

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He certainly can, he just cannot violate civil rights laws in the process.

If I wanted to rent a house but you showed up in a Sarah Palin T-Shirt I couldn't refuse to rent to you based on political beliefs...even though I would want too.

It would be only speculation but given their worldwide evidence of intolerance of other beliefs I wonder what the reporting would be and if it has actually happened if the shoe was on the other foot?

When I started this thread, I was imagining what Mr. Keller would have said if I had approached him in a different context and asked what he thought about the rights of gun ownership. I imagined that he'd say, "damn right, I believe that everyone has a right to defend themselves!" But now he's saying that, if it were left up to him, he'd leave law-abiding muslims and Obamaties defenseless.

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I think you're putting words in his mouth and then getting worked up about what you're saying he said. He's saying he won't teach muslims. You're saying all the rest of that.

^ Yes, Americans intolerance of others is well documented the world over, no doubt.

I think you're putting words in his mouth and then getting worked up about what you're saying he said. He's saying he won't teach muslims. You're saying all the rest of that.

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That is the illegal, and important part.

How is refusing to offer your commercial training to Muslims any different from refusing to let Baptists sleep in your hotel? It seems patently discriminatory. He could opt to stop selling his services entirely, and nobody is forcing him to shoot with people he doesn't like.

But I actually think he would be permitted to refuse to work with Democrats or Republicans. Those aren't religious or ethnic groups, and I believe we are permitted to do business only with a particular political group if we so choose. Kind of stupid for a merchant, but it is done in some contexts such as lobbying and fundraising.

There was no confirmation any caller was Muslim..it could have very well been some white dude..again it is total speculation without verification.

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Technically, there is never confirmation that anyone is Muslim. Muslim is a religion, which only you can know whether or not you believe it. I've heard it said many times by Muslims that the terrorists who claim they do stuff in the name of Allah are not really Muslim, but just use Islam as a scapegoat for their hatred. White dudes can be muslim as well. Muslim is a religion, not a race.

However, based on history, and seeing what has happened in the past, I think it is safe to assume that the callers do believe some version of Islam, whether it's the correct version or the warped jihadist version.

There is also a huge leap from "you can't verify that they're muslim" to "you made it up." I didn't make anything up, I read the article and interpreted it. You had a different interpretation, but that doesn't mean I made it up.

Yes, Americans intolerance of others is well documented the world over, no doubt.

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Yes we Americans who let women vote and drive, abolished slavery, allow all kinds of odd sexual behavior, allow all religions to be practiced yea that's the ones. I wouldn't be talking about those who rule by religion and oppose the very things I just listed plus many more.
I wish it was just a stereotype but it is not, just because that behavior and beliefs are not yet mainstream here it is increasing.
How about answering the question instead of pretending that white conservative males are the only evil in this country?

There isn't an "answer" to the thread. The dude's a bigot by definition, based on his own words. That hurts the image of the general "non bigoted" gun owning community, not to metion deepening the divide between Muslims/Christians, Liberals/Democrats. For that he should be ashamed. I amazes me how some people don't evolve past the school playground at age 6.

As an instructor, I do mention that people who are serious about their Second Amendment rights need to be politically active and pay attention to their elections, but I don't tell them which direction to vote. (Unless they ask.) I have not taught any Muslims, but I gladly would.

At the same time, if I thought someone was a threat to society for ANY reason, I would refuse to teach them.

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...if I thought someone was a threat to society for ANY reason, I would refuse to teach them.

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That certainly makes sense! Unfortunately, this man is claiming (he says in jest) that voting contrary to his views makes someone such a threat. He's either a liar or of very limited mental faculties. I have to assume he's lying simply to skirt the fact that he wants to exercise some small measure of retribution against those who don't agree with his choice of candidate.

I suppose maybe speaking so plainly would cross some line of personal embarrassment he's not already breeched? Hard to believe.