223 for deer update

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ldlfh7

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I had asked earlier about thoughts on 223 ammo for deer. I ended up with 70 gr Barnes TSX in 556. I did get an 8 pointer this last weekend but I have to tell you I will probably never use this again on whitetail. I made a solid hit through the lungs and this buck ran about a 1/4 mile before I caught up with it. If I were using my 308 I know this would not have been the case. Experiment over with the 223 for deer for me.
On a positive note I did get a good deal of meat in the freezer and a lot of exercise. Curiosity got the better of me this year but from now on out 308 or 3030 for me.
I know others have stated great results with 223/556 for deer but that just simply was not the case for me. The exit wound appeared to be about the same as the entrance.
 
Thanks for the post. The smallest bullet I've ever used on deer is a 100 grain .257" game king starting out at 3150 fps. I have no desire for a .22 for deer. I'm man enough to handle even my 7 mag, let alone the .257 I shot my first deer with at age 11.

My fave all around hunting rifle now days is a .308, just hard to beat. I try for shoulder shots, break bones, no need to blood trail. :D My rifles have the power and the bullet for that.
 
Unfortunately, I cannot try out anything smaller than 20 gauge for deer in my state. I doubt that I'd use 223 but would, if I could, use my 30-30, 308, 444 or any of a group of big game rifles.
I did use muzzle loaders for years from 45 maxi balls on up through 58 minies and a hit through the lungs always left a blood trail for the 25 or so yards they usually leaped.
I will, one of these days, get one with my Contender 10" in 45 Colt with the jhp 250 grain over a nice dose of 2400 which chronos out at about 1200 fps.
 
What speed were you getting with the bullets, exactly which bullet, and what range was the shot taken. Barnes bullets really need to impact at 2000-2200 fps or they don't expand much at all. If you can get 2500 fps or better at impact they are pretty impressive. At slower speeds they act just like FMJ and don't expand, or expand very little. You would've probably seen better results with a much lighter bullet. Even a 50 gr copper bullet would have gave complete penetration and much better expansion. If you're gonna shoot copper, forget all the old rules, they work different. Choose lighter bullets and shoot 'em as fast as you can push them.

Also the TSX is a poor hunting bullet in anything smaller than 30 caliber. It is more of a target bullet. The TTSX is the much better hunting bullet that expands much more reliably.

I don't think there is anything wrong with 223 or Barnes bullets for whitetails. I think you chose the wrong bullet.


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In the area where I hunt the largest whitetails weigh about 150 lbs live weight.I prefer rifles in the .243 to .257 range for these deer.
 
Barnes TSX are excellent bullets, however moving up to a heavier bullet often does the opposite of what you are wanting. The TSX and similar bullets thrive on speed and high velocity impacts. The 70 grainers likely expanded very little but would certainly have the penetration. You would be unlikely to get a 55 grain TSX to stop in a deer on a broad side shot, mine whistled through and left the deer leaking blood like a ruptured his for 50 yards. A young man I loaned a Handi rifle in .223 to used a 60 grain Nosler partition to take a huge buck a couple days ago. Every thing has its restrictions, just because it's not a .308 soft point doesn't mean it won't work, you just have to recognize and work within its parameters.
 
I shot it at about 100 yards or so. I feel there was minimal expansion but full pass through and good blood trail. I have killed truck loads of deer with my 308 and 3030 and never had to track like i did this year. The quarter mile drag was pretty rough but better than no deer. Im only using my real deer rifles the rest of the season. Good luck to everyone else this season.
 
I liked how the buck I shot this morning went boom/flop with my 284. I just hope the game camera it was standing by caught the action. He looked a lot smaller in the earlier game camera pictures.
 
ive shot a couple deer with the little 223. i was impressed both times. 55 grn horn handloads. one was a lung shot it went about 50 yrds,wich is typical.the other was a neck shot bang flop.

ive shot deer with several calibers.223, 06,3030,6.5x55 but by far my most proven killer is the 243.with 100 grn rem core lokts.

to me the 223 is fine for southron deer.big 250lb northren deer no i would not use it.there is just too much room for error.

i think 70 grn bullets may be where the prob lies. they are tuff bullets and may not expand well on deer size game like on lung shots. they need more resistance like muscle or bones.
 
Wrong bullet ... the TTSX 50 gr or TTSX 55 gr would have been a better choice...

Any of the Barnes Hunting bullets need speed to expand ... the more the better...
 
I loaded some 64 gr. Power points for a friends ar muzzle velocity of 2850+. He shot 2 deer one while I was watching. Good kill shots but my 45 colt finished the deer. Not impressed with the 223 at all on deer. Yeah it will kill them but so will a 22 LR. Doesn't make it the best choice though.
 
Hard for me to imagine why people continue to want to try killing deer with marginal cartridges, when there are so many good options. It's sort of like trying to take a rhino with a 7mm....it could be done but there is too much room for failure or poor performance.
 
Not the wrong cartridge... maybe not the best cartridge but certainly not the wrong one either.... but simply you chose a bullet that was not designed for smaller deer(<150 lbs).

Yes ... You will have the nay sayers that believe nothing shy of a .50 Browning will kill deer ...

Believe what you will ... but there are many many deer here in South GA with the .223 Remington ... but they also use the right bullets to do so...
 
Well as I said earlier I have no doubt with the ability of 223 to take deer but the big ol bodied buck I shot just kept on trucking. Felt pretty bad after gutting it and saw little to no expansion and how this was the opposite of a quick clean kill. I will never allow this to happen again.
 
I've killed both whitetail and mule deer bucks..big mature, South Dakota deer....and the 62 gr Fusion round from Federal kills thwm just as dead as a 100 gr from a .243... a 123 gr 7.62x39, a 150 gr 30-30, or a 160 gr accubound out of my 7mm. If you put a quality expanding bullet through the vital of a deer, its going to die. I've always been told that f using a solid copper billet like the Barnes, to shoot light ffor caliber bullets because speed is required for reliable expansion, making that a more important considdderation than using the heaviest bullet you can find. A 70 gr bullet at 100 yards likely acted as a sollid or fmj round, simply icepicking through the deer. If you use the wrong bullet in any caliber, one can have simliar results. Its not the round the failed, it was your choice of bullet that was wrong, IMO
 
If the only rifle I had was a .223, I'd probably use it if I went deer hunting. As it is, I only hunt hogs. I tried a .223 on hogs once, but I wasn't impressed with it. I used a Nosler 60 grain partition bullet, and shot an 80 Lb hog center of mass. Admittedly, my shot placement wasn't great, but the hog took off. Luckily it was running through a pasture and I was able to get another bullet into it.

It still wasn't dead though, and when I got to it I had to shoot it a third time. I sold the AR-15 and bought an AR-10. The hogs are no longer so particular about where I shoot them.

I may try a 300 Blackout, although I would keep the distance pretty short. Luckily, most of my hog hunting involves shots that are no longer than 125 yards.
 
sometimes, even under the best circumstances, using a small caliber will make you wonder if you used enough gun. Seeing the deer bolt instead of dropping on the spot makes one question his decision of caliber selection.

Complete confidence in ones gear is paramount.
 
ldlfh7 said:
I made a solid hit through the lungs and this buck ran about a 1/4 mile before I caught up with it. . The exit wound appeared to be about the same as the entrance.
Click to expand...


As a bowhunter, and long time deer hunter, I have to say, this is hard to believe. If you got a pass-thru on a solid double lung shot, bullet expansion or terminal performance would not make that much of a difference. No different than a broadhead or the use of a hard cast bullet out of a handgun. You should have had a heavy bloodtrail that ended within a hundred yards.
 
Im not trying to convince you of anything and you are welcome to think whatever you want to. Just sharing my experience.
 
Glad you were able to locate that deer.

As a few others in this thread have said, the 70 TSX is most likely too stiff a bullet to maximize performance on that size animal shooting clean through both lungs.
With a bullet as solid as TSX, twenty grains lighter may well have ended it a bit quicker, more expansion= more bleeding.

Not a big advocate of .224 for whitetails either, but have put a few in the freezer with Nosler 60gr, haven't had one go much farther than a hundred or so yards yet. Was able to recover one of those 60s just under the skin on the off side & it was a classic example of what a bullet should do.
 
JimKirk said:
Not the wrong cartridge... maybe not the best cartridge but certainly not the wrong one either.... but simply you chose a bullet that was not designed for smaller deer(<150 lbs).

Yes ... You will have the nay sayers that believe nothing shy of a .50 Browning will kill deer ...
Click to expand...

Not me. But a 308 would have killed the deer with any decent bullet.
 
I think the point is, you don't need magic bullets if you have enough power and lead. A plain old spitzer will do, no need for controlled expansion. Just look at all those who swear by the ancient, but still reliable Remington Core Lokt. The old, ubiquitous flat point 150 grain .30-30 is a great stopper of deer. I've killed deer with my own cast .357 gas checked bullets and 360 grain 50 caliber minie balls that are, if you will, pre-expanded.
 
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