Career as a BATFE agent?

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WACO

though one could say that was more FBI thank BATFE
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True, so true. The FBI were the ones to "finish" the branch davidians. However if the BATFEces hadn't started the whole mess with their "staged for the cameras, just in time for appropriations" JBT raid the FBI would not have had to step in and clean up their mess by eliminating most of the witnesses and evidence.

And if you think the BATF are just good plain ordinary folk just ask Randy Weaver. It was them, the US Marshals office and the good old Janet Reno thugs association that murdered his wife and son.
 
Does the idea of murdering children in an inferno, and taking part every day in the violation of the rights of citizens bother you?
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Man, get your facts straight. The ATF were the ones who took the heavy casualties because they wouldn't fire on innocent children who were being used as human shields by a bunch of people who were basically laying in wait for them. By the time they figured out what the Davidians were trying to do it was already too late for them.

19 wounded and 4 dead.

I do have a question though. 51 days. That's how long David Koresh chose to hold the FBI agents off. David Koresh could have let his followers go. If they weren't guilty of anything, why didn't he do the right thing? Why didn't he give up, and say in front of the media that they weren't doing anything wrong? WHy wouldn't he go to trial? The seven seals aside, the Bible, in the Book of Revelations says " The devil may cast some of ye into prison; Be thou faithful unto death, and I will reward thee with a crown of life."

WHy didn't he do the right thing? Negotiate his own surrender for the followers of his church? Yeah, people really want the truth to be told about that. It's what Jesus would have done.

Believe in your false prophets.
 
The existence of the ATF is unconstitutional, as are the criminal excuse for "laws" they enforce. Their existence as an agency is a crime, and their actions in conflict with the second amendment are also crimes.

If a career in crime is your goal, at least the mafia has some semblance of honor, or at the very least, no pretentious self-delusions.

And if the Branch Davidians really wanted to kill ATF agents, they'd have been wiped out within the first 10 minutes. A lot of people dead based on half-cocked suspicions, as well as outright lying to get those TNG helicopters.
 
Man, get your facts straight. The ATF were the ones who took the heavy casualties because they wouldn't fire on innocent children who were being used as human shields by a bunch of people who were basically laying in wait for them. By the time they figured out what the Davidians were trying to do it was already too late for them.
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Dude Get your facts straight. The ATF had no qualms about firing at the Davidians during the raid. That is why several of the Davidians were killed by gunfire that day. In fact the BATF monkeys were so eager to fire upon the Davidians that the only reason they stopped shooting at them was the BATFers didn't bring enough ammo. They ran out of bullets in the middle of a gun fight and had to walk away hands in the air begging for the Davidians to not finish them off. If the citizens at Waco were the blood thirsty murderers portrayed by the Feds they could have killed a lot more than 4.

And as for Koresh "not letting those people leave"? Again you got it wrong.
In the days after the initial shooting 8 Davidians chose to leave the compound. The rest chose to stay, they were not forced to. Whether this was due to the cult influence or some other factor one cannot say but no
person was physically prevented from leaving.

The persons who did leave were arrested and charged with murder in the deaths of the BATF agents. They were tried in a court in Texas and acquited. The juries findings were they did not commit murder and their acts in the deaths of the BATF agents was self defense and justifiable homicide.

The Davidians may have been wacko, different and bizarre but it was the actions of the ATF on the first day and the FBI during the subsequent siege that was immoral, unethical and frequently illegal.
 
If you want to work in law enforcement, then go for it. However, an entry level agent will have to do what they are ordered to do. They won't be ablt to change policy. The only way to climb the latter in order to change policy is to do what you are told.

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The ATF and the FBI are responsible for what happen in Waco.

The FBI is responsible for the second assault, the fire, etc. The horrific end to the incident happened when the FBI was in control.

However, the ATF started the whole mess. There is a tn of information out there that talks about illegal activities the ATF participated in to secure the warrant, and during the initial assault.

If you get the chance, read the book "No More Wacos" by: David Kopel.

http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Wacos...9042417?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173798137&sr=1-1

It is very informative, and has 10 + pages of footnotes per chapter.
 
It is amazing how many people post comments here that actually do not know anything about the ATF.

The ATF is just a shadow of the organization that it was back when they were Treasury Agents. They now get the scraps from the Department of Justice.

We will not have a ATF in force like we did when Klinton was in Office. Now if Osma or Klinton seize control we will likely see a large build up for anti 2nd amendment work.

The ATF is made up of three parts. The majority are office workers. These are your friends and neighbors that work 9-5 pushing paper for the Government.

There are only two things for certain in this life. They are death and taxes.

The other large part is the Inspectors/Compliance people. Again this could be your friends and neighbors. They are administrative people that inspect us FFL's,Fireworks, Explosives and their regulated materials.

In this day and age anyone that does not see the need in tracking and proper security of explosive material is just an idiot.

Now we have their JBT people. These guys are busy on the war on drugs, building war crimes cases, finding the hundreds of pounds of missing explosives, Investigating Arson and Explosives, and illegal firearms. Its amazing how well tied in together the drugs, illegal firearms,and arson/explosives are.

I do not think we will see a change in what they are doing unless the Liberals take charge. Then maybe we will see them go back to the JBT days.
 
However, an entry level agent will have to do what they are ordered to do. They won't be able to change policy. The only way to climb the latter in order to change policy is to do what you are told.
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Or I could just choose so selectively enforce the law, but that's not what an LEO is supposed to do.

I could just ignore unconstitutional commands, but then I would probably get canned.
 
floridaboy said:
I'd rather my mother take up whoredom than be an atf agent!
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Whoa dude, that's pretty harsh.

I also think that it's pretty messed up to compare this to a jew joining the SS. The BATFE is run by a bunch of corrupt politicians, but many of the people who work there, like the OP is considering doing, are just doing their jobs.

Would none of you here run for president because the current one sucks? I have yet to see a candidate who didn't seem to be a tyrant, socialist, warlover, or just a plain idiot. Is this why? Does no one intelligent want to step up to the plate because they are smart enough to be sickened by the government?

No one just gets up out of their blue-collar world and says, "Vote for me! I'll run fairly!" You have to get your feet wet and learn the ropes. If he is going to help change the BATFE he's got to do it from the ground up. No one gets hired as CEO from the street.

If I may insert my opinion, I think that if you want to try to make a difference, then by all means do it. If you can make a stink about refusing to do something blatantly illegal, and get on Oprah to talk about why you were fired when you wouldnt snap that baby's neck because it had a bracelet made out of .22lr cases, then do it!

Every mountain looks the biggest from the very bottom, but you have to start somewhere.
 
Originally Posted by floridaboy
I'd rather my mother take up whoredom than be an atf agent!
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Let the record show I am taking the High Road and am ignoring this straight line. It is taking great effort and will power but I'm ignoring it.
 
"after 3 years of schooling, .... i have swung wildly from conservative republican to libertarian ( still adapting)"

College does tend to do that to you. But, don't worry, after you graduate, and start to pay taxes, you come back.
 
I used to work at a place that was more or less a cop bar, at least during the week. It was about 100 feet from a state line, and was frequented by officers from maybe four of the metro area police departments, sheriffs departments from both sides of the line, and a couple of guys from the local FBI office.

Some guys from the local BATF office started coming in for a while, but they quit showing up after they realized that no one from any other law enforcement agency would talk to them.

In my experience, local police departments generally consider FBI agents to be idiots, and FBI agents basically consider BATFE agents to be idiots.

A large group of diverse people are unlikely to actually be mentally deficient, so in this case you would have to consider that BATFE agents are in fact at least in the heart of the bell curve, but that their employer requires that they behave in the fashion that they do. Which behavior ensures that they have no friends or respect among their peers.
 
If a BATFE has to exist, I'd rather have good guys in it. Especially if you can get in on the so-called "testing process" for NFA items and help us avoid guns being declared machine-guns because of shoe laces.
 
We will not have a ATF in force like we did when Klinton was in Office
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And who's ATF commited the atrocity at Ruby Ridge?

Hint: It wasn't anybody named Bill, or even a Democrat for that matter.

Was Clinton's plan of jack booted thuggery against gun owners put into full swing within a month of him being inaugurated (Waco)?
 
.

The concept of the BATF is completely in opposition to my beliefs regarding
the state, the nature of man, and his freedoms. So no, I don't share your
opinion that it would be "neat" to join them.

:uhoh:
 
I am not about to give career advice. No matter which one you pick, you'll have your share of headaches. As a stockbroker, I have been put in numerous positions where I had to make the choice between doing the "company man" thing or sticking to my principles. You get sick of this REAL fast. Because of this, I now own my own firm based upon a strict code of ethics-- and not just the ones written on a big mission statement plaque in the foyer.


I can't resist chming in on the Waco thing. If any of you get the Documentary Channel, PLEASE watch the documentary called "Waco: Rules of Engagement."

You don't have to take the word of the people interviewed. But follow the OFFICIAL statements of the FBI and ATF regarding what they claim they did. THEN take a good look at the night-vision video of what ACTUALLY happened. You can see automatic weapon fire coming from entry vehicles. You can see the shots they took that they claim they would never do. You can actually see where they run OVER one person as they breech the building.


Of course, all this is denied in the "OFFICIAL" accounting. Just don't trust your lyin' eyes.


My take is that the instant you LIE to me and I can see the lie, I must consider everything that you say as a LIE until you can prove to me otherwise. After proving yourself to be a liar, you have to prove everything you say from then out.



Edit: Sure, the Branch Davidians were wack. But that's thier thing. Have at. I'm currently working on getting Tax-Free Status for John-ism. As of yet, it has no belief system, no message, and no world-view. But it does have a Post Office Box where you can send your donations. I don't think they are biting on my tax-free status. :)


John
 
Okay, so by a show of hands, how many of you actually have to work with these people on a daily basis.

Okay, I HAVE TO WORK WITH THEM. I don't get a choice. If I want to sell guns for a living, they are going to come into my place of business and inspect it, and my paperwork. I'm NFA, so I have to deal with even more than an average dealer.

Will you guys please, for the love of John Moses Browning, quit trying to scare off the decent people? If you got your wish, then the ATF would be solely populated by scumbags.

I know it sucks. I know it shouldn't exist. I know you can quote Ayn Rand, Thomas Jefferson, or Kermit the Frog about why the ATF is bad...

But I, and all of the other folks that you buy guns from, and the people that build your guns, HAVE TO WORK WITH THEM.

No matter how hard I close my eyes, and wish, oh so hard, I can't fly, there is no pot of the gold at the end of the rainbow, and the ATF will still come into my shop and inspect stuff! You can be morally pure on the internet all you want, but in the real world, the ATF exists, and people work there.

I'm glad I have the inspectors that I do. They're professionals. They come in, do their job, and go. My inspectors are decent folks.

If you guys had your way, in internet moral supremacy, then my inspectors would suck. Because no good people would work for the ATF.

See the quandry?
 
Correia,

I hear what you are saying, and agree with you.

As I mentioned earlier, I have to deal with regulators as well-- on MANY levels. I have to deal with State Regulators, SEC Regulators, and Self-Regulatory Organization (SRO) Regulators very often.

They ARE important to keep our industry cleaner. I don't ever want to see my industry go back to the Wild, Wild, West atmosphere we had in the 1980's where little old ladies were put into grossly misrepresented Limited Partnerships and lost thier life savings.

I think people here have opinions of what THEY feel the role of ATF SHOULD be, and are reacting to that. And that is their right-- as it is others' to have countering-opinions.

I frankly, hate all the paperwork I have to do for regulators-- we are probably the most regulated industry in the US. But I do see the other side of it.


John
 
Am I the only one who thinks it would be neat to work as a BATFE agent?
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Do a Google search on "Good Old Boy's Roundup".

If that's what you want to be a part of, have at it. If nothing else, it pays better than the Aryan Nations, I guess...
 
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