Gun Haters

[AlexanderA]

I'm forced to ask, why don't any of these shooters go after celebrities, or the president? Why don't they try to shoot people
at a gun range, or a police station? The obvious answer is they know they will be met with equal force, and shot down like rabid dogs.
They obviously choose gun free zones on purpose. Which raises the question, why are parents so blind to the obvious danger
to their children of making schools "gun free zones" ?

The strategy of the school shooters is like that of the terrorists: they choose "soft targets" in order to maximize casualties (while minimizing risk to themselves). This is entirely rational on their part. If you harden the school itself, the shooters will just shift to other venues, such as school sports events. Anyway, most of the shooters are suicidal, and they expect to be shot at some point. It's just a matter of how many minutes they have to do their nefarious work undisturbed. Armed bystanders may or may not make a difference. Let's not kid ourselves. (I agree that "gun free zones" make as little sense as "drug free zones." Both provide zero deterrence to law breakers.)

 

[George P]

Good point George P; that begs another question. I would guess that the majority of cradle rockers are females (mothers) - if the cradle rockers carry the influence, then why so many overly aggressive males if influenced my the genteel female?????

Most of those hands rocking the cradle are teachers, and we know what side of the fence a lot of them (and their union) sit........When I was growing up, the husband worked, the wife ran the house, raised the kids and handled the money, and had control over a LOT (probably why most of the dads in my neighborhood hit the local bar a few times a week! )

 

[Bigmike79]

The ani-gun folks will eventually win as will the left in general.

Look at a state like CA. That will be most of the United states in 50 years. There will be pockets of rural areas that will still be conservative, but they will be ruled with an iron fist by large metro areas where all the votes come from just like rural CA.

Even states like Idaho or Alaska will become liberal nanny states eventually as our cities continue to grow. Boise ID went big for Clinton in 2016 and is becoming more liberal by the day due to transplants coming in, seniors checking out, and an extremely liberal educational system. Eventually Boise will become both large enough and blue enough to speak for the rest of Idaho just like Vegas speaks for Nevada or Denver Speaks for Colorado.

Enjoy these times my friends because they're not going to last. The Internet, national news, and the educational system have changed the game. Generation-x got the ball rolling on hating this country and everything it stands for. God help us when the Millennials come to power. They not only hate America as a collective whole.........they hate themselves. This country will be essentially given away without a fight in my grandchildren's lifetime. What a shame.....

 

[AlexanderA]

Do you agree with the second part of the post?

Two very important things...1. the removal of a father figure from the nuclear family 2. the removal of God from education and society. Both of those relate to accountability and a higher power so that the child thinks he/she can do whatever it wants without consequence. Couple that with the increase of violence seen absolutely everywhere (TV, radio, video games) that act as substitutes for actual parenting, what the hell do you expect would happen? Monsters are being created in our society...and it doesn't take many to traumatize our society nowadays.

I agree that there are more broken families or single-parent families than there were years ago. And also that there is more religious secularism today. Yet the vast, vast majority of kids from broken or secular homes don't go shooting up their schools. In fact the small number of school shooters is statistically insignificant. What we are dealing with is a specific pathology rather than the result of broad social trends. Policies (such as gun control) are being formulated that would apply to everyone, in response to actions by a very small number. This is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. These "solutions" lack proportionality.

 

[ar-newbie]

The school problem is so so simple to fix.

SECURE THE SCHOOLS..... end of story.

If I have to go through metal detectors, security scans, k9 searches of my vehicle on a daily basis, so can the children. Anything less is stupid beyond words. Secure the schools, and you secure the children.

Send security analysts into every school across our nation, audit the physical security, and implement the proper measures.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Good point George P; that begs another question. I would guess that the majority of cradle rockers are females (mothers) - if the cradle rockers carry the influence, then why so many overly aggressive males if influenced my the genteel female?????

It's pretty obvious you have never mowed up my flower garden or "accidently" had the knives up on the honey wagon going past my clothes line when I had clean laundry drying. A dishonorable mention to a certain unnamed idiot that shall remain my brother decided to use my favorite blouse for cleaning rags. They quickly discovered...

(warning- gratuitous Kipling reference)

http://www.bartleby.com/364/191.html

All OT aside- I have to wonder why it is one of the relatively rare school shootings leads the call for immediate action yet the far more common and just as deadly ignoring the stop sign on school buses is largely considered a fact of life. I guess poor driving habits are more important than a child's life.

 

[George P]

The school problem is so so simple to fix.

SECURE THE SCHOOLS..... end of story.

If I have to go through metal detectors, security scans, k9 searches of my vehicle on a daily basis, so can the children. Anything less is stupid beyond words. Secure the schools, and you secure the children.

Send security analysts into every school across our nation, audit the physical security, and implement the proper measures.

Yep, because a NAZI-like approach works so well..........NONE of those ideas address the CAUSE, only the EFFECTS, and until you fix the cause, you will never fix the effects. All of the schools in my area, when driving by - if you didn't know it was a school - you'd think it was a prison.........

 

[ar-newbie]

Yep, because a NAZI-like approach works so well..........NONE of those ideas address the CAUSE, only the EFFECTS, and until you fix the cause, you will never fix the effects. All of the schools in my area, when driving by - if you didn't know it was a school - you'd think it was a prison.........

What are the alternatives?
Ban the guns? - those intent on doing harm will get them anyways.... Or use something even worse
Fix the lack of proper family values? That horse got out of the barn a long time ago

and since the third word you replied with was NAZI, I guess we know where your mindset is....

 

[George P]

Banning ANYTHING only makes the blackmarket grow.............fixing values would start, but it would mean reversing 60 years of LBJ's Great Society attitudes......won't be easy but it need to start SOMEWHERE

 

[Telekinesis]

The school problem is so so simple to fix.

SECURE THE SCHOOLS..... end of story.

If I have to go through metal detectors, security scans, k9 searches of my vehicle on a daily basis, so can the children. Anything less is stupid beyond words. Secure the schools, and you secure the children.

Send security analysts into every school across our nation, audit the physical security, and implement the proper measures.

It's not that simple. Put all the fancy metal detectors and bomb dogs and locks on a school you want. Pull the fire alarm and watch the students walk right past all that expensive stuff and into the open.

Most fire evacuations put students in either the football field or a parking lot. You can't effectively search every car, every single day just in case there might be a car bomb. And you can't put a 300+ yard perimeter on a high school football field.

If you do a slow and effective job of screening leading to long lines to get into the school, you have made the interior of the school secure. Congrats, you have also just made the collection point/lines outside the screening area a viable target because it's unsecured and has a large number of students.

I don't say this to give anyone ideas (all of this stuff has been done at other terrorist attacks in the past) and I don't mean to say that securing schools is a bad thing, I definitely agree that additional security is good. However it is not just an easy job to secure every school in the country.

 

[bnolsen]

BigMike79 I agree that's where things are headed if they continue on the current track. Aout violence? I watched plenty of woody woodpecker, three stooges, tex avery, etc when growing up. None of that made me anything like a mass murderer. The really bad issue us that morality and consequence for actions have been tossed out of society and especially the education system...in great part the vast damage done by the 1960's draft dodgers in higher education. Too much narcisism to an extreme and no concepts of the value of human life, the fruits of Godlessness.

So we're not intersted in hiring dedicated armed security for schools, is it reasonable to expect to find teachers and staff who don't have a problem arming up and keeping trained?

Every single time I go to my kids' school and have to disarm to go pick them up I always wonder if I shouldn't just keep it on me since diarming is the wrong thing to do...

 

[tarosean]

They scream to outlaw guns instead of addressing the cultural issues we have where bloody violence is normal and accepted as "entertainment" in video games, television, movies, and music combined with absolutely no personal accountability.

That same "entertainment" is sold/viewed/etc. around the world.

Yet they don't have the same issues as us. It's definitely something else.

 

[Navy_Chief]

What are the alternatives?
Ban the guns? - those intent on doing harm will get them anyways.... Or use something even worse
Fix the lack of proper family values? That horse got out of the barn a long time ago

and since the third word you replied with was NAZI, I guess we know where your mindset is....

The alternative is that as a nation we need to start acting like communities again, true communities support each other and help each other when needed. We have become a spectator society, we watch things happen, we watch warning signs in people and assume that somebody else will take care of it. Or even worse in the younger generation, they are so worried about catching the latest viral video on their phone that they actively watch horrible things happen to people while they record it. We are far more concerned with our favorite sports teams and what is happening on the latest television show that we have no idea what our neighbors are doing, or how they are doing, or if we could help somebody out of a tough spot.

In the most recent shooting there was every warning sign you could hope for, up to and including posting on the internet that he was going to kill people, Nobody did anything He had disciplinary issues in school, instead of trying to find the root cause and helping him they expelled him. He was an orphan whose mother had died 5 months ago, social services did nothing to make sure he was okay, did nothing to help him, it appears did nothing to see if there was anything at all they could do.

Society failed and people died. But at least everybody got to watch the Superbowl, they got to watch whatever the latest reality television show is, they got to post pictures of every meal they ate for the last 3 months on Instagram. All while this person living among them needed help badly, was calling out for help and was ignored.

Fixing that is the alternative.

 

[ar-newbie]

It will take a very long time to reverse where we are now, in the meantime, securing the schools is still our most practical step moving forward. This is something you could build a bipartisan support for, without stepping on political boundaries.

There are a multitude of underlying reasons causing all of these incidents, but they are not easily solved overnight.

 

[Walkalong]

With yet another school shooting in south Florida by yet another coward, my mind goes to watching all of those traumatized children just trying to stay alive. I am wondering if an entire generation of anti-gunners is being created by this ongoing trauma

This is obviously the antis hopes when they run it over and over and over and blame the gun. It's our job to counter that with facts, which is obviously a tough task.

 

[stonebuster]

We are dealing with multiple generations that lack the ability to differentiate between human actions and the tools used to accomplish those actions, this has grown worse over the years as the last generation raises a new one and adds to the deficiency. We have created a feel good society where there is no blame or accountability for a persons actions, as a part of this they lack the ability to blame the person who committed the crime and instead blame the gun. They scream to outlaw guns instead of addressing the cultural issues we have where bloody violence is normal and accepted as "entertainment" in video games, television, movies, and music combined with absolutely no personal accountability.

Well stated Chief. The "they" that are screaming the loudest are often the Hollywood crowd that are making millions from these movies depicting the violence they are screaming about. You're dead on right that our society has changed drastically in the past several decades and not for the better.

 

[rfscjeep]

When I'm talking to people who bring up gun control or banning a particular gun after a tragic event like this I use a Automobile analogy. --Think of the gun in question as a Camero muscle car; black, customized, wide tires, V-8, Ask them how would they would write a law to ban just that car. What makes that car any different than any other. It could be driven by a grandmother to the grocery store or a maniac that intentionally runs over children at a bus stop. Who do you blame, the driver or the car? How do we stop the maniac? more laws that don't work or trying to identify & getting mental help for the maniac before it happens. --most of time it changes the discussion to the problems with children in our society now.

 

[cp1969]

Yep, because a NAZI-like approach works so well..........NONE of those ideas address the CAUSE, only the EFFECTS, and until you fix the cause, you will never fix the effects. All of the schools in my area, when driving by - if you didn't know it was a school - you'd think it was a prison.........

Have you flown lately? Would you prefer that things would have been left as they were prior to 9/11 because it would have been NAZI-like to take any action to prevent a recurrence?

 

[mokin]

BigMike79 I agree that's where things are headed if they continue on the current track. Aout violence? I watched plenty of woody woodpecker, three stooges, tex avery, etc when growing up. None of that made me anything like a mass murderer. The really bad issue us that morality and consequence for actions have been tossed out of society and especially the education system...in great part the vast damage done by the 1960's draft dodgers in higher education. Too much narcisism to an extreme and no concepts of the value of human life, the fruits of Godlessness.

So we're not intersted in hiring dedicated armed security for schools, is it reasonable to expect to find teachers and staff who don't have a problem arming up and keeping trained?

Every single time I go to my kids' school and have to disarm to go pick them up I always wonder if I shouldn't just keep it on me since diarming is the wrong thing to do...

I think you answered the question in the second paragraph in the last two lines of the first paragraph. OTOH, I know more than one teacher who would carry to work if it were allowed. School admin types though, another animal. The sad thing is, guns and education have both become political planks and it's hard to reconcile the two.

 

[BigBore44]

Highly concentrated areas + gun free zone = Killing field.

Parents not paying attention to their children because they’re too busy on Facebook and Instagram (or working) + a child who feels like they have nowhere to turn for support when things go badly for them and therefore has no coping skills + sees violence glorified every day = “potential” future mass shooter.

You want to fix the problem? Fix the home. Parents need to be involved in their kids lives. Teach the value and preciousness of life. Teach respect, trust, honor, integrity. Don’t allow your kids to play games like Grand Theft Auto. If you’ve never seen this game, it will blow your mind what you get rewarded to do. Rape, murder, theft, beating up old ladies, killing cops, all gets you a higher score.

This will never end. Thanks to our society’s manipulation and bastardization of what is right and wrong over the last 30+ years we will see these shootings continue. Everything on the news is “horrific” and “terrifying”. And the response is always “outrage”. The two most powerful emotions...Fear and Anger. Watch the national news sometime. All they promote is fear and anger. There is no middle ground anymore. No coping. It’s like we’re all being condition to be bipolar.

People need to unplug.

 

[Walkalong]

The ani-gun folks will eventually win as will the left in general.

Look at a state like CA. That will be most of the United states in 50 years. There will be pockets of rural areas that will still be conservative, but they will be ruled with an iron fist by large metro areas where all the votes come from just like rural CA.

Even states like Idaho or Alaska will become liberal nanny states eventually as our cities continue to grow. Boise ID went big for Clinton in 2016 and is becoming more liberal by the day due to transplants coming in, seniors checking out, and an extremely liberal educational system. Eventually Boise will become both large enough and blue enough to speak for the rest of Idaho just like Vegas speaks for Nevada or Denver Speaks for Colorado.

Enjoy these times my friends because they're not going to last. The Internet, national news, and the educational system have changed the game. Generation-x got the ball rolling on hating this country and everything it stands for. God help us when the Millennials come to power. They not only hate America as a collective whole.........they hate themselves. This country will be essentially given away without a fight in my grandchildren's lifetime. What a shame.....

We always have a few "it's no use we can't win" folks speak up. Such a negative outlook on life. And just what the anties want you to believe, especially now when they have lost so much ground lately.

 

[psyopspec]

Then I hope none of them ever gets drafted and is forced to go to war. Talk about trauma.

Fortunately no draft, but on short order the graduating high school class of 2018 will begin to bear responsibility for America’s longest war. Columbine and 9/11 were both significant in shaping my generation and our thinking even if we weren’t there in person. The splendid little wars where I was present were powerful experiences, but it’s all part of the same zeitgeist.

All of you belly-aching about the younger generations lack of work ethic, toughness, god, etc — keep in mind that much of character is learned from the previous generation. I didn’t kick off the world’s problems and you probably didn’t either, so perhaps it’s more constructive to focus on where we are now and may go in being men and women of character in our communities. We can take to the internet for the technological equivalent of being old men yelling at the sky, but that tends to reinforce useless silos and waste everyone’s time.

 

[psyopspec]

The school problem is so so simple to fix.

SECURE THE SCHOOLS..... end of story.

If I have to go through metal detectors, security scans, k9 searches of my vehicle on a daily basis, so can the children. Anything less is stupid beyond words. Secure the schools, and you secure the children.

Send security analysts into every school across our nation, audit the physical security, and implement the proper measures.

And do what, exactly, in the event of a fire alarm?

 

[FL-NC]

Children are very impressionable. End of story.

 

[cp1969]

And do what, exactly, in the event of a fire alarm?

Seems like there have been more school shootings than fires over the last 25 years.